Harassment of Escorts, Exotic Dancers, and Sex Workers in SL?
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Scylla Rhiadra
Gentle is Human
Join date: 11 Oct 2008
Posts: 4,427
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07-30-2009 08:34
From: Argent Stonecutter Something like sexual harassment in the workplace shouldn't be treated more or less leniently based on the type of business, though. Which is what I was getting at. Ah, I'm sorry. Misunderstood. Well, in RL, where many sex workers are often particularly vulnerable to harassment because of their social situation, etc., I think I WOULD suggest that there should be a difference. But in SL, no, I think I would agree that all forms of sexual harassment should be treated in a standard way. Which is to say, rather more seriously than LL takes them now.
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Scylla Rhiadra
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Scylla Rhiadra
Gentle is Human
Join date: 11 Oct 2008
Posts: 4,427
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07-30-2009 08:37
From: Pserendipity Daniels Never needed to pay for it in sl (rl is a different thing - I'm married, so I pay and pay and pay . . .  ) Pep (Seems to me as if Cato might have found himself a job, monitoring length and quality.  ) I very much doubt that Cato is qualified. I suspect that even in RL he was rezzed with pre-attached undies. Oh, and *BOOOOOOO* for the joke about marriages!! 
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Scylla Rhiadra
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Clarissa Lowell
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Join date: 10 Apr 2006
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07-30-2009 08:39
But Pep jokes about his marriage more often than Henny Youngman! Forum would be different without it.
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Pserendipity Daniels
Assume sarcasm as default
Join date: 21 Dec 2006
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07-30-2009 08:43
From: Clarissa Lowell But Pep jokes about his marriage more often than Henny Youngman! Forum would be different without it. Who's joking?  Pep (It's not funny!)
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Argent Stonecutter
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Join date: 20 Sep 2005
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07-30-2009 08:43
From: Scylla Rhiadra Well, in RL, where many sex workers are often particularly vulnerable to harassment because of their social situation, etc., I think I WOULD suggest that there should be a difference. I suspect, from what I've read, that the problem in RL is that there *is* a difference and there *shouldn't* be. That is, if a prostitute were to complain about being sexually harassed they would be treated less seriously than if a receptionist in a florist made the same complaint. |
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Clarissa Lowell
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Join date: 10 Apr 2006
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07-30-2009 08:43
Sorry. It always comes across that way. I thought you meant it like that.  |
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Desmond Shang
Guvnah of Caledon
Join date: 14 Mar 2005
Posts: 5,250
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07-30-2009 09:42
From: Argent Stonecutter That is, if a prostitute were to complain about being sexually harassed they would be treated less seriously than if a receptionist in a florist made the same complaint. I'm going to presume that was merely a syntax glitch, but in case it wasn't... ...in the case of a receptionist making a sexual harassment claim whilst actually *in* a florist... well... that's a rather questionable complaint, no? Forgive me. I think it's the exposure to Pep...
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Jig Chippewa
Fine Young Cannibal
Join date: 30 Oct 2006
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07-30-2009 09:46
From: Pserendipity Daniels Just making the point that it *is* possible to make more than pocket money in sl as an escort (she was not the highest earner there) and that there *are* idiot men with too much money willing to waste it.
Pep (Which means that there will be others who are willing to exploit weakness in both sexes.) I used to make good money in escort work in sl - and despite Pep's cynical attitude, I was able to talk intelligently on a number of REAL topics. But I never slept with Pep.
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Argent Stonecutter
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07-30-2009 10:04
From: Desmond Shang I'm going to presume that was merely a syntax glitch, but in case it wasn't...
...in the case of a receptionist making a sexual harassment claim whilst actually *in* a florist... well... that's a rather questionable complaint, no?
Forgive me. I think it's the exposure to Pep... I'm not sure what the glitch is. I mean someone working as a receptionist at something like FTD. |
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Shambolic Walkenberg
Registered User
Join date: 24 May 2008
Posts: 152
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07-30-2009 10:07
From: Scylla Rhiadra Well . . . I think that LL SHOULD have more regulation to protect both consumers and businesses here, actually. I think any request for LL to actually help in any way will result in more of the bodged crap like the Zindra fiasco. There will always be some people who are pressured into things they don't like. And the only way to fully prevent this is to remove the freedom for others to do things they *do* like. I, and any free thinking individual, would not want *more* regulation, especially on something with a white cross in a red box at th top of a computer screen. |
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Argent Stonecutter
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07-30-2009 10:09
From: Shambolic Walkenberg I, and any free thinking individual, would not want *more* regulation, especially on something with a white cross in a red box at th top of a computer screen. I have a red circle with a black cross on one desktop, and a gray square with a black cross on the other. |
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Desmond Shang
Guvnah of Caledon
Join date: 14 Mar 2005
Posts: 5,250
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07-30-2009 10:20
From: Argent Stonecutter I'm not sure what the glitch is. I mean someone working as a receptionist at something like FTD. Aye, I understood, it was the difference between "receptionist in a florist" -vs- "receptionist *at* a florist"... I was teasing, good naturedly.
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Melodie Darwin
SL Answerless
Join date: 8 Feb 2008
Posts: 180
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07-30-2009 10:30
From: Scylla Rhiadra Legalizing, and regulating prostitution would of course be a step in the right direction. Interestingly, when the idea of Zindra (or Ursula as it then was) was first mooted, it occurred to me that this might in fact be an opportunity for LL to regulate the adult content biz a bit against possible abuses, as they do in many officially-designated European "red light districts."
I'm sure many (most?) of you would not have welcomed such a move, for a variety of reasons, but there was never any real fear of that happening, I imagine, anyway: LL doesn't really care unless it hits the bottom line, or the front page. In basic Lindenese, this would simply not be scalable. How would it work really? USDA-style Inspector Linden rates establishments based on Grade A, B etc quality of girls. He then is in charge of giving them virtual STD tests. Once they go through such testing, he then would remind them where the little red X, teleport home, and mute buttons are. If you watch any of Torley's videos about G-Team, RESI mods or whatever they are called today; they emphasize those 3 buttons if someone is being harassed. From: Scylla Rhiadra Soooooooo . . . Let me tentatively propose the following . . .
That LL, as a private company that has an interest in the ethical treatment and safety of its customers (yes, I know, I know . . . keep the snickering down, please) should undertake some minimal regulation of the sex trade here, as is its right to do as a private company.
In particular, they should institute a policy that makes certain forms of harassment of sex workers offenses under the ToS or CS, as for example, the demanding of sexual favours from employees. The penalties should, of course, be commensurately less severe here than they would be in RL, but there should surely be penalties nonetheless. Demanding cybersex as a condition of employment surely constitutes a form of harassment under the CS as it exists anyway, but it would be worthwhile to make this more explicit. From a PR point of view, at the least, this would seem to me a wise move on LL's part: do they REALLY want it revealed that SL is harbouring virtual (or for that matter, RL) pimps who are blackmailing employees? Harassment whether sexually or otherwise is already covered in the TOS and CS. They even go further by stating: From: Community Standards Buyer Beware
Linden Lab does not exercise editorial control over the content of Second Life, and will make no specific efforts to review the textures, objects, sounds or other content created within Second Life. Additionally, Linden Lab does not certify or endorse the operation of in-world games, vending machines, or retail locations; refunds must be requested from the owners of these objects. Any RP class will tell you to go to an infohub or something to make your RP limits so that the profile pic isn't set to your home. Makes it easier to keep weirdos away that way. While sex industry regulation could make for some interesting RP, that is all it could be. Any attempt to standardize one industry over any others in such a micromanaged way is bound to fail. It would be impossible to discern RP characters who act like boneheads from actual harassment. In terms of RL money, and the ability to make it- I would prefer they fix the grid to a stabilized level and make long promised technical improvements. That would go much further toward quality creators sticking around and businesses flourishing than anything else. This is an adult community where the bulk of the residents are capable of making responsible choices. Regulating imagination is akin to saying Marilyn Manson causes school shootings. If someone cannot keep their RP, or sex place behavior in check and does start individually harassing someone there are rules to cover that. The idea of RL human trafficking using SL as a training ground smacks either of urban legend or the next SL/CSI convuluted plot.
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Clarissa Lowell
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Join date: 10 Apr 2006
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07-30-2009 10:33
From: Melodie Darwin The idea of RL human trafficking using SL as a training ground smacks either of urban legend or the next SL/CSI convuluted plot. If you are referring to my post, I did not say anything like that. It's a fact, though, that teen girls are being held against their will and pimped out online. Isn't SL online? |
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Argent Stonecutter
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Join date: 20 Sep 2005
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07-30-2009 10:37
From: Desmond Shang Aye, I understood, it was the difference between "receptionist in a florist" -vs- "receptionist *at* a florist"... I was teasing, good naturedly. Oh, duh. I need a drink.  |
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Melodie Darwin
SL Answerless
Join date: 8 Feb 2008
Posts: 180
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07-30-2009 10:40
From: Clarissa Lowell Yes that's what I was just thinking Scylla. Putting her on a website might require giving them a name, might require the website operator risking their business on her/the pimp, and might be more widely seen. Also, much easier to find again.
In SL they could make a new av a day, hit a freebie mall and be in business. All they'd have to do is put 'cam girl' in profile and stand around an escort sim.
I've heard SL cam and voice girls make nearly comparable money to website ones - but I don't know. Well what I've heard is they make a lot more than text ones.
They could work from their laptop though, holed up in some hotel room. Instead of posting a pic on craigslist and waiting for outcalls, just go into SL and make a little cash. I mean I don't know, but it's a troubling thought. While you raise the question of it, it was the tendency of those who latch on to whatever FOX News style sensationalism which I was referring to. There is no way to know, and no way to regulate against such a thing without LL sinking further under their mismanagement. Toting the idea as any sort of reason to regulate the industry makes for good fiction only.
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Clarissa Lowell
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07-30-2009 10:43
'kay.
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Ceka Cianci
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Join date: 31 Jul 2006
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07-30-2009 10:46
really i think that document was just dropped in there to get everyone going..
for one getting on a camera you have to do that outside of the grid..thats not LL's area..
Voice server i don't even think they control..maybe they do now..but really escort and dancer and pimps and all that..it is role play..
if the role is not what some thought it would be they should really find another role..
who ever heard of a pimp that doesn't harass their ladies? lol
Night club owner not hitting on the girls? 0o i have never worked in a club where club owners managers or dj's or other dancers were not trying to play..
I mean sexual harassment for escorts is like the pot calling the kettle black..there was a time when people complained about escorts .then bloodlines came along to take off the heat lol
i just think that document was a troll drop to get us all going hehehehe
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Shambolic Walkenberg
Registered User
Join date: 24 May 2008
Posts: 152
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07-30-2009 10:49
From: Argent Stonecutter I have a red circle with a black cross on one desktop, and a gray square with a black cross on the other. You'd better hope nobody forces you into something you don't want then, as I've no idea how you'd get out! (/me is still waiting for Haiku/ Open BeOS to mature before changing OS) |
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Argent Stonecutter
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Join date: 20 Sep 2005
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07-30-2009 10:50
From: Ceka Cianci who ever heard of a pimp that doesn't harass their ladies? lol
Night club owner not hitting on the girls? 0o i have never worked in a club where club owners managers or dj's or other dancers were not trying to play..
I mean sexual harassment for escorts is like the pot calling the kettle black. Exempli Gratia. |
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Ceka Cianci
SuperPremiumExcaliburAcc#
Join date: 31 Jul 2006
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07-30-2009 10:55
From: Argent Stonecutter Exempli Gratia. what does that say?  |
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Argent Stonecutter
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07-30-2009 10:56
From: Shambolic Walkenberg You'd better hope nobody forces you into something you don't want then, as I've no idea how you'd get out! What, just because I don't like the Fisher Price look of XP? (and why did Microsoft call an OS "Mr Yuck Emoticon"?) From: someone (/me is still waiting for Haiku/ Open BeOS to mature before changing OS) I used BeOS on my Powermac, and while I appreciated the superior memory management (I got better response time running OS 8 under SheepShaver under BeOS than running OS 8 or OS 9 on the raw hardware) I don't really want to go back there. They seemed to forget that having an object-oriented API doesn't remove the requirement to actually design the API... but I can't really ding them TOO hard for that, it seems like everyone other than Xerox PARC has made the same mistake. |
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Argent Stonecutter
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07-30-2009 10:58
From: Ceka Cianci what does that say? "for example", you seemed to be demonstrating what I was talking about in here: From: Argent Stonecutter I suspect, from what I've read, that the problem in RL is that there *is* a difference and there *shouldn't* be. That is, if a prostitute were to complain about being sexually harassed they would be treated less seriously than if a receptionist [at] a florist made the same complaint. |
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Ceka Cianci
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Join date: 31 Jul 2006
Posts: 4,489
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07-30-2009 11:01
From: Argent Stonecutter "for example", you seemed to be demonstrating what I was talking about in here: oh ok..well now i know a new lil saying off to work..lunch is ovaaa |
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Clarissa Lowell
Gone. G'bye.
Join date: 10 Apr 2006
Posts: 3,020
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07-30-2009 11:03
From: Ceka Cianci oh ok..well now i know a new lil saying I wish anyone still taught Latin. From: someone off to work..lunch is ovaaa Time for mine, chow for now all. |
