Stipend as Welfare

Sounds good to me.

Actually, RN'R I did it to get exactly that reaction and get discussion started. Besides, in real we all pay into the civic system yet it is called "welfare". I pay my dues in form of taxes and sales tax. I've been very fortunate and I dont begrudge that. In SL I hardly notice the payment into my account and I just wondered why people were getting miffed when payments were late. It seemed "welfarish" to me. I suppose I should have added "Do we really need that incentive to join anymore?"
I certainly dont think so. I can see reduction of tier as far more suitable.
(Youre relatively new here so people will tell you that I try to make my threads as "discussion-loaded" as possible. This one is pretty tame. -
I'm still trying to work abortion issues into one somehow)

rather than argue how silly that is (and get into the privatization argument, because I think we'd rather agree that privatizing certain things would help)... let me ask you this... what's the difference between a user fee, and a tax? and what constitutes use?

simple example... roads... if if you don't drive, the goods and services you get make use of them, so if you don't pay the government you still pay the grocer, or the bus line, or everyone else using them to provide you services....

Well, I am a socialist and my passport if for a country that has socialist principles (thank God) , and I think any country in the "Free World" that isnt socialist in terms of caring for its general population - its youth, its aged, its disadvantaged - is lacking in simple humanity.
I am deeply concerned that the Health Bill may fail for example. I do as much as anyone can in terms of subsidizing education for disadvantaged but gifted university students so I know that socialist programs are essential to us all today particularly in terms of subsiding education.

well considering how little benefit there is to premium membership as it is (and all the people dumping it and just renting estate) I'd say that the incentive is needed

and really, how much do you think it'd drop tier?

providing incentive for premium membership is definitely in LL's interest as it provides part of their stable income base, which is very important both for business survival, and for numbers to feed to their advertising department.

as for why people get annoyed when it doesn't show up, or gets screwed up, that's simple... it was part of the contracted service, and anything that devalues the contract, devalues what people are paying into it.

Hmm, still not convinced. Looks like welfare to me.
But should add I am NOT opposed to that. It's in our REAL social contract and I have never begrudged paying into the system. I earn the money - I pay my share. It's only fair.

What, complaining about not getting something you explicitly paid for is "welfarish"? So if you're paying for utilities and the power goes out and you call the power company about that it's "welfarish"?

Lol, no. But then I dont pay for outrageous and over-priced service like power company in sl.

I can't believe that this inane topic is still running. (Who let down the team by not getting an alt to post a proper Friday thread?)
I guess that would be because it takes from the "haves" and gives to the, uh, "haves".

Look, the stipend isn't intended to be a benefit to the recipients. Its effect is to put some L$s into circulation that just might not be spent on land. Some folks may be tempted to actually buy content with it, as opposed to just throwing it all back at LL in the form of tier or rent.

The Second Life economy is plagued by far too much of the total money in circulation being wasted on land. I'm guilty myself: if I didn't own so damned much of this pixel acreage, I could spend much more on content that other residents create. Instead, a huge share of my Second Life funds end up in Linden Lab's balance sheet. At the same time, by owning so much land myself, I'm contributing to the desperately low population density of the grid. The stipend system slightly mitigates this effect by forcing Premium members (few though they may be) to somehow spend a weekly influx of L$s, some of which spending just might be for content instead of land.

(A tangent: As I think about this, I'm realizing that the adfarmers were right about something, but of course for all the wrong reasons. They claimed that advertising contributed to Mainland's profitability for LL, based on the vast land holdings of adfarmers. Of course, adfarmers then and extortionists now are land-poor by normal standards, owning at most a few sims of land dispersed as uniformly as possible across the grid. Their total direct contribution to LL's revenue is and always was negligible. ON THE OTHER HAND, the *threat* of adfarms created a huge demand for land. I realize that much of the land I own was bought as protection from the adfarmers. I bet I'm not alone in paying LL far too much tier because I still own more "defensive" land than stuff I actually use.)

Inane? Yet you wrote 28 lines of answer.
Yes, I admit I am a "have" - and agree that anyone here is also a "have" - they must be to afford a computer and internet services. people may consider themselves "have not" but for the major part of world population a computer is simply a techno marvel they may never own or even touch.
I was recently acting as an invited person in a refugee camp "somewhere in Africa" and the lack of what we consider simply barest of survival needs brings me to a social sobriety.
We are very fortunate.

This thread was just such a prime candidate for pimping my Agenda du Jour. (Originally I'd planned to use Des's, but then somebody converted a "" to an ["img"] :eek: )

Let's say it's a newspaper then. If nobody in the neighborhood got their newspaper one day, and some of them complained, would you call the newspaper welfare?

And don't forget, out of fifty thousand or so premiums, how many actually complain?

Your analogy is just plain crocked.

I also am fairly fortunate in RL and would not notice too much if I never got the stipend again. For me personally, doing something with tier would help me more and be more appreciated.

However, I know quite a few that are not as fortunate. They rely on that stipend each week for their little bit of spending money in SL. And most of those same folks do not own land because they cannot afford to buy it - even a small 512 plot - so changing tier in any way would not help them at all.

A

Ooops, Sorry

Oooo, thanks!

i call it dividends on the $250usd i paid for a lifetime account.

I want a 2003 avi tooooooo!

Then you pay a slightly higher price for the good to cover the fee the trucking company pays to transport it's goods to your store. Just like you do now. The roads not only pay for themselves, they are forced to subsidize these boondoggle "public transportation" schemes that are so beloved by big city planners.

Can you please show me a copy of this "social contract' and note the place I signed it?

Why should money be taken from me by force to subsidize a university student? What if I wanted to use that money to buy a new TV? Or to pay off my house? Is not the time I spent earning that money mine? Why should you have any right to take my time from me?

Socialism is nothing more than slavery. You think it is perfectly acceptable to take the fruits of my labors, my time, in order to pay for something you think is important. You want me to "work in the fields" long enough to pay for your "disadvantaged students".

As someone who uses medical care on a monthly if not weekly basis, it scares the living shit out of me that the government will pass any kind of health bill. They want to lower health care costs? Simple, increase competition. End this system of getting drugs to the people. This past week I had a flare up, instead of going to the pharmacy and asking for the drug I knew I needed, I had to waste time and money going to the doctor and gettting his "permission" to get the drug. Can you tell me Jig? How many MRI machines does Canada have per million people? How about the UK? How about the US? Tell me Jig, where do the medical breakthroughs in new drugs come from? The socialized systems of Europe and Canada? or the US? I will tell you, the rest of the world rides on the work done in the US. Private companies just in the US spend more on research than all of the European nations combined.

I haven't bothered with going premium and i don't camp. but i earn my L$ same as you. I may go premium but haven't decided yet. But I agree it's not welfare if your paying for it.

You mean, "Am I my brother's keeper?"
You bought into it and signed the "book" the moment you were born; you can't extinguish your small flame in the furnace we have made of civilization and connection. I guess you expect nothing from anyone but it just isnt the case. You need that contract, that sense of belonging - even from people like me. Neither of us might enjoy that prospect of the thought of someone like myself - anyone, really - having to perform some kindness or obligation to you as an inevitability. It's just what "happens".
There seems little we can establish as a commpn ground to enable a discussion. I believe that we have obligations to fellow humans, you - apparantly - do not.

To avoid any more unpleasantness I will simply say "Yes, you live in a wonderful country." I have no intention of arguing with you. You clearly know nothing about socialism. I understand that you are ill. I hope your health improves. I simply dont think you and I see anything we like about the other or any common ground to establish a discussion.

By the way I (ME) - I DONATE that money for those students - It's what I do to help young people who cant afford it or may have to go into debt. It's NOT the money I pay in taxes. It has no obligations and I expect no payback. You may think I am a selfish and arrogant bi*ch (and I prolly am) but I try to exonerate myself

Now I'm going to bed. It's been a hard day and I am tired

I Think my curent Linden Balance is somewhere around $60L (Yes, Sixty).
Money Just isn't that Important to me. I've had Balances in the Tens of thousands, and Zero Balances Many times in the Past five years, but my enjoyment of SL doesn't hinge on my Bank account.

I have friends and Family in SL whom i Love very much, and who love me. That's what I'm in SL for, so what's $50 linden give or take? I'm As Rich as i want to be, and Richer than a Lot of people in SL.
You should all be as Fortunate as I am.

Angel.

Actually.. There's quite a lot of them coming from socialized Europe, like Switzerland.
Israel, as small as it is, is another country *known* for medical breakthroughs.
Oh yes, lots of the researchers there get bought out to the US by the big money, which is money spent on their wages, NOT on the research itself. They would've made many discoveries anyway, no matter who payed them. It's just a matter of being the highest bidder.

Why do Private Companies in the US spend tons on research? To earn money! That's the only reason. If they didn't make enough money from their previous drugs yet, then you can count on them to just sit on the pending patent (preventing other companies from releasing it) untill that drug is phased out before releasing the new one.
Of course, socialized European companies only invent new medicines to make the world a better place, and give them away for free to those who need them...
Not. European companies are as bad as the American ones, and are only interrested in making money, whichever way they can.

Companies don't give a chip about the people that might benefit from their medicines, only about the money they pay. The way they cover up information about negative side effects and the suggestive method of researching benificiary effects shows even more how they don't care about the people but exclusively about their money. Treatment successful - patient died.