From SLU: Canadians will NOT be able to age verify.

Can't submit the form without putting in a number and type.

Yes but this was in concierge beta.

Did you leave both fields blank? The one where you select the type of document and the one where you enter the number?

Maybe they've made it a mandatory field now, I can't get back into the form now. I have no idea why it would be a mandatory field though, they don't have access to that sort of information for everyone on the planet.

Yes, I tried leaving them blank. They are manditory.

I only *wish* I wasn't quite 18 again... Well, sort of.

Aww... Love you don't look a day over 21.


Ditto for me, the fields mentioned are mandatory so don't work if left blank. I see from the other threads, we're not the only ones having problems though.

Well they were supposed to be mandatory in concierge beta, they were marked as mandatory but it didn't enforce the mandatory field when I submitted.

I guess because of people like me reporting this flaw that they've made the changes to ensure people enter date there. However therein lies the reason plenty of people can't verify, Integrity simply can't confirm this information, they do not have the data and therefore can't provide a match.

slight problem, seems OP forgot one small but important fact

just because the official sources will not directly verify information regarding a particular ID does NOT mean that some 3rd party hasn't already tied these pieces of information together.

for instance, if you bought something provided that vendor with your id number and related information, they could easily sell that information on. provided your name address and age for a frequent shopper card? that information is saleable... then when integrity compares the sources they have, the more sources that match, the more sure they are that it relates to you... throw in a reference to a DL number or something and boom, that's how they tie it all together... this is very smilar to how some credit bureaus work..

fo instance many US states wont verify DL information, but check cashing companies often sell their information on, and that's where the 'verification' comes from... it's not 100% foolproof, but it's how it general is done for sources that aren't otherwise directly accessible

This is highly unlikely for SINs and Passport numbers, Void. This is a highly unusual request from a vendor, one that would immediately cause suspicion.

I do recall, however, that in applying for a Safeway Club card, they asked for a SIN. I refused to provide it, since all they wanted it for was to tie my purchase history to my SIN. I was astounded that they would even ask it, frankly.

Which only goes to show, if anyone other than an employer or a government agency asks for your SIN, don't provide it. Same goes for your passport number.

I sent the following email in response to the update on SL's official blog regarding age verification.
----------------------------
To: Second Life
From: An Angry Canadian SL user
Re: Age Verification

oFor ALL Canadians, the proposed new age-verification system for
Second Life is a complete failure and possibly ILLEGAL under Canadian
law. Here's why:

Integrity CANNOT VERIFY YOUR AGE using your Social Insurance Number
(SIN) or your passport number, and in fact, it is probably illegal for
them to do so under Canada's privacy act. Canadians can actually make
a formal complaint to the federal government about companies asking
for these numbers, and I'm sure you'll be getting a few of those.

Check for yourself if you don't believe me:

SIN: 1-800-206-7218 (Option 3 for SIN)
Passport Canada: 1-800-567-6868

I have called these 1-800 numbers and verified that the federal
government will NOT provide ANY information, including age, to ANY
third-party, except for other government departments, employers, and
financial institutions. Second Life/Integrity does NOT fall into any
of the exception categories. The law in Canada is quite clear, and
quiite strong in this area, unlike the States.

Also, in my own case, I have confirmed through a phone call to my
driver's licence bureau that Integrity CANNOT VERIFY YOUR AGE using a
Manitoba driver's licence (although they might be able to using an
Ontario driver's licence number alone, apparently your birth date is
embedded within your number). I've heard from other Canadian Second
Life users that Quebec and British Columbia have similar situations.
In all cases, the licensing bureau will not provide ANY information,
including age, to ANY third party except government departments,
employers, or financial instiutions. The law, again, is quite clear
and quite strict on this point.

The most important point I am making here is this:
************************************************************
Since Integrity CLEARLY CANNOT VERIFY MY AGE using ANY of the numbers
asked for, WHY IS SECOND LIFE/INTEGRITY ASKING FOR THEM? We are
explicitly warned NOT TO GIVE ANY OF THESE NUMBERS OUT to companies.
And under Candian law it is at best highly questionable and at worst
ILLEGAL for you to require Canadians to provide ANY of the numbers
given as options in the drop-down menu on the age verification page.
Expect a flood complaints to various government agencies, and official
follow up by provincial and federal governments as a result of this.
************************************************************

It is clearly illegal for you to refuse to provide age-verification
services to Candians who refuse to provide ANY of these numbers. You
can't wiggle your way out of that. Canada's privacy act is quite
clear on this issue.

In summary, if you are providing serives to Canadians, you are going
to have to come up with another way to verify age, or no Canadians
will be able to verify.

I have a strange feeling of deja vu. Is this what Nietzsche meant by 'eternal recurrance'?
I really have to relive the acts of others for eternity?

Shit!

Dang it Chas. Would you stop? Or you're buying me a new keyboard...

You´d better make sure he doesn´t send you his then, it sounds a bit disgusting....

Here's the proof that Second Life/Integrity cannot refuse age verification services to Canadians who refuse to provide a SIN, passport number and driver's licence number:

According to Canada's Personal Information Protection and Electronic Documents Act at (Note the second point below):
-----
"The law [Canada's Personal Information Protection and Electronic Documents Act] requires organizations to:

- obtain your consent when they collect, use or disclose your personal information;

- supply you with a product or a service even if you refuse consent for the collection, use or disclosure of your personal information unless that information is essential to the transaction;

- collect information by fair and lawful means; and

- have personal information policies that are clear, understandable and readily available. "

I now understand from the FAQ that Linden Labs will now accept a scanned copy of a utility bill with my name and home address. That's the first reasonable request from them I've had, and I can certainly do that.

Why would a US company be held to Canadian law?

When it provides services to Canadian citizens, asking for their SIN, passport number, or driver's licence number in order to age verify.

I am NOT against age verification, but

I am against asking for forms of identification from agencies who tell me that they do NOT provide age verification to third parties except employers, financial institutions, and other government departments. Since these numbers are impossible to use for age verification (unless Integrity has some little database somewhere they aren't talking about, which would mean a REAL legal shitstorm up in Canada), why the request for them? They can't be used for their stated, intended purpose anyways.

AND under the current system, it appears that NO Canadian can age-verify, which means we are collectively being shut out of age-verification-required parts of SL. We can't even age verify even if we wanted to!

And as I just mentioned, LL has finally proposed some ID that I can happily provide: a scanned copy of a utility bill with my name and home address. THAT I can do.

Would the "unless that information is essential to the transaction" clause apply?

You give up your rights to Canadian law if you provide a US company with your details, same in Europe with the European data protection act.

If a Canadian company were to disclose your details, then they would fall foul of Canadian law.

That seems rather rediculous to me.

Hmmm, so if you got your way, they would end up removing the service to Canadians. I'd hunt you down...

Damn right it does.

Linden Labs/Integrity does not need to know my SIN, Passport number, or driver's licence to provide age verification for SL. In fact, it's IMPOSSIBLE for them to use these numbers for age verification, according to the research I've done.

Before you hunt me down you DO have another option. From the Age Verification FAQ :
-----

What happens if I experience problems when I try to verify my identity?
The new age verification feature is in beta. Please be patient as we continue to improve the feature. We are committed to making sure the process is as smooth and user-friendly as possible; however, we understand that this represents a change for Residents. We have also tested the system extensively with our systems provider, Aristotle-Integrity, which has delivered this type of technology to other companies. If you continue to have problems verifying your identity, please go to the Second Life Support Portal and submit a ticket.

Please attach electronic (scanned) copies of the following materials:

Government issued identification that has your date of birth clearly displayed. This identification should be one or more of the following:
Birth Certificate
Driver’s License
Passport
A utility bill with your name and address clearly displayed.
Please expect manual verification to take 5-7 working days.

-----
And I'm quite happy to go the utility bill route, it's safer than the alternatives. Giving a company your SIN (for example) is just opening yourself up to identity theft. You could open bank accounts in that person's name, etc.

Er, a utility bill won't have your age. Which means you need to supply something else as well. And I'm not giving them scanned copies of any of those other things.

Don't forget though: you are not denied access to the SL service if you don't age verify. You are denied access to some user created content. It's a tough sell that you are being denied a service.

If age verification is unavailble to all Canadians (and it is, because no government agency will provide ANY information, including age, to ANY third party except for employers, financial institutions, and government departments) then no Canadian can take part in the newly segregated world of SL.

So there are going to be some very angry Canadians regardless, given the current clusterfuck.

*Why* a utility bill is OK is beyond me, but hey, if it's an option I will take it over handing out my SIN etc.

For the same reason YOU are held responsible for California laws when you use SL or even use this website. You are not immune the the laws just because you are not physically there.

I agree that it will upset some Canadians (myself included), but if I really wanted, I apparently *could* send them a copy of my DL. Not going to. But the option is there.

It's not a CDN company. Good luck trying to have CDN laws applied to it. And if they stop providing service to CDNs.... I think I mentioned something about what happens then.

They shouldn't need anything else. They can verify people without this additional information, the LL system just needs something added to it. Integrity have access to names, addresses and date of birth, LL are looking for something additonal to prove who you are. A utility bill in theory should be fine that you are indeed the person at that address and then integrity should be able to check that that person is indeed over 18.