False Underage ARs - A suggestion

I'm childfree. Kids piss me off.



It is a concern for some people, because even having online sex with a minor is still anywhere between contributing to the delinquency of a minor all the way up to statutory rape, depending on what exactly happens, laws in the local jurisdiction and how far the prosecutor wants to take it.

I'm kid free too, kids don't float my boat. Neither does cartoon sex.

Not true. History shows that age-ver'd avatars have successfully AR'd for being underage. (^_^)

And, still nobody can convince me that there are more legit age-ver'd adults than there are illegit age-ver'd kids. (^_^)y

Don't assume that every person who files an Abuse Report knows what they are doing.

First of all, the Second Life rules on abuse (such as the age policy) are so vague, it's difficult for smart people to read the rules and know exactly what a violation is and isn't.

Second, the Second Life Abuse Report procedure remains so mysterious, not many people know what material constitutes a good abuse report and what doesn't.

I know that it's very difficult just from chatting with someone to make accurate guesses about their real life characteristics. I have been in the situation before (not on Second Life, but on a MUSH), where someone insisting to be over 18 was showing that she was far below it in a painfully obvious way. In short, she tried to hard to make up lies to validate her real life adulthood, and it was painfully obvious.

Now if that were in Second Life, I would have no problem reporting such, because it was so obvoius to me. However, I have no way of knowing what kind of evaluation Linden Lab applies to such reports. If their standard is that someone has to admit to their real life age, then they would not accept my abuse report. However, that does not make my abuse report either malicious and unknowing.

Not true. History shows that age-ver'd avatars have successfully AR'd for being underage. (^_^)

And, still, nobody can convince me that there are more legit age-ver'd adults than there are illegit age-ver'd kids. (^_^)y

Ever seen the movie "Die Hard With A Vengeance"? There's a great line in it where Bruce Willis's character asks Sammy L's character why he saved Bruce Willis from an attack. Sammy L replies,



What's the big deal if someone claims to be underage in RL? A couple of things. First, if they're telling the truth and are really underage, it means they lied during the initial signup, and lying has consequences. LL does have a Teen Grid, after all - it's not like they couldn't go there.

Secondly, if they're lying - well, lying has consequences. Me and the other SL kids on this site stress that we are RL adults, because we don't want to be treated differently (from a policy standpoint) than anyone else in SL. If these dweebs want people to think they're RL kids, they should expect to be treated like RL kids - and RL kids are not allowed on SL. Think about it: why on earth would an adult actually claim to be a RL minor, knowing the LL policy on minors? I can think of two reasons right away: 1) they're incredibly stupid, and probably deserve the inconvenience of a ban as a useful educational experience, or 2) they're journalists who are out to convince the world that SL is a haven for predators fishing for kids, by proving that someone can assert themselves as a RL minor in SL without consequence and even make all kinds of friends who will "protect" them from discovery. So, my name, together with my easily-recognizable kid av, makes it onto a news clip where these people show examples of themselves claiming to be kids and nobody doing anything about it. At the end of said news clip, they show how they managed to infiltrate one of the few hidden, but no doubt still extant, sexual ageplay groups in SL, without indicating that the avatars they'd shown earlier in the clip didn't necessarily have anything to do with the ageplay group. As a result, my reputation is in tatters; and rather than do anything to try and fix/change their registration and age-verification policies, LL will do what they always do, and tighten restrictions on what RL adults who have kid-sized avs in SL can do.

And yes, I -can- think of other reasons why an adult would claim to be a minor in RL, but they're disturbing, so let's not go there.

So yes, I will AR them. How I feel about LL's policy on minors isn't as important as the fact that by telling ME they're RL minors, they've put me in a hot seat - and I sure as hell don't owe them anything. I don't care how long it takes them to "get their account back".

All that said - please note the very important distinction that I will be sending such an AR only if the person claims to be a minor in chat or PM, or sends me a picture of a child for some reason, claiming it's a current RL picture of them, or something like this that constitutes a -direct claim- of being a minor. I wouldn't AR anybody just because I "suspected" their behavior, or anything like that - I agree, that's frivolous, and uncool.

No: what you do, is get the necessary profiles and chat histories up on your screen, then TP to the Mainland and send your AR from there.

I think we shouldn't punish anyone for reporting underagers and being wrong about it. The burden of determining if a person will be suspended and investigated should be entirely on Linden Lab. Why on earth would LL put someone through the age identification process based solely on a resident's intuition? LL has all the chat logs and evidence on their end. All they should need from an AR report is the name and a time frame of where to check chat logs.

Some people are playing for FREE. Well, not really free free, they live off SL lindens they win at contests. So, with no payment info on record, as people can play free, there is no age verification system. Perhaps ask their payment info first. However, someone telling someone they are underage and from another country far off sounds like a scam to find some "elder" to give them lindens. I mean what is the point of saying I'm underage in chat or IM other than trying to get lindens and perhaps even a plane ticket for rl. This kind of scam happens on just regular dating type services, sending I love you long emails, photos, and then the email to send money for a plane ticket arrives! This happened to my rl bf's friend. He fell for it hook line and sinker. We tried to tell him this person was not real from the beginning and to watch out. When the email arrived to wire money for the plane ticket he finally realized what was going on.

It's been pointed out several times. Payment info does not prove age. A teen can open a bank account and get a Visa Debit Card. Some parents give their kids credit cards in their own names, or they can "borrow" an adults card. The credit card companies themselves have stated their cards can not be used to prove age.

That seems like an odd thing to bring up when nobody was implying that cartoon sex turns your crank.

Ah, thanks for clarifying that.

However, I still don't see any point in someone saying I am underage in the first place on the adult grid? There is a real scam involving people from far off countries posing as gorgeous women by sending model-like sexy photos and exchanging long I love you emails on just regular dating sites and then that "wire me $1500 for a plane ticket so you can see all of me comes" when it's some person with cleaver writing skills trying to get money and was never some sexy young woman to begin with. It could be a 60-year-old man for all you know.

Beware and be wise on the internet, and read up on alerts like the one I am posting 'cuz it is happening all over and I'm sure SL is not immune.

In which jurisdictions is it statutory rape to engage in cybersex with a minor? I don't know of any place where it's possible to commit rape of any sort without some physical contact.

In my jurisdiction is no such thing as statutory rape. Cybersex with a minor falls under the grooming provision of the law. Is in the same Act as rape and other sexual violations of minors. The penalties are the same.

I don't think it is in those cases either because the internet is it's own unregulated beast.

However, there are rape sims, believe it or not. I think these people are totally out of their mind and are freaking nutz simulating rape.

I had heard on the news of a girl who was involved in a rape case lawsuit against SL, and that's all I heard. Until some dude avatar invited me to a rape sim I couldn't figure out how an avatar could be raped on SL. I was extremely upset after that happened to me. Extremely! And that's from just being invited!

But then I got to thinking, what if it were a girl who didn't understand English very well and then all these avatars started raping her? The costumes may be detachable by the click of a mouse by the other person because I saw some costume that was invented where the other avatar can take it off. Now if one doesn't speak English or understand what is going on, I could see how that could be very disturbing to whomever that happened too.

SL should get rid of rape sims altogether. It's beyond sick as far as I'm concerned and I believe the above case is rape. It's called emotional rape.

You can't be "raped" in SL. You have to click on a poseball yourself. Those sims are Role Play areas. There have been unsubstantiated claims of avatars being controlled by another person, but I don't believe it personally. You can't be made to do anything in SL you ultimately don't want to do.

Problem is, that doesn't work - ironically. When you age-verify with LL, what you're really doing is adding your name to an "access allowed" database that parcel owners can use - they can set a parcel to not allow people who aren't in the age-verification database. That's ALL age verification is good for. It doesn't actually establish your age, as far as LL is concerned. Not only will being age-verified NOT prevent your being suspended for an underage AR; but getting suspended that way once, and getting your account reinstated by sending LL the actual legal proof-of-age documents they want, will not stop you from being suspended again if you're AR'd again for being underage - you'll have to submit the same documents again. At least, according to one person I've talked to who says he had to do it.

No, take this simple scenario of a girl who doesn't understand English nor even truly understand what is going on. Some guy says click on that pose ball and she does not fully understanding English of even what is actually going on as she's mostly been on benign pose balls such as for dancing. Yes, she clicked on the pose ball, but did she understand? Others could easily take advantage of someone's naivety.

There's lots of sick things in SL, just as there is in the real world. Only difference with SL is that it's accessible and with out consequence.

But I can't see how anyone could be raped in SL and to be disturbed by it tells me the person was somewhat unstable to begin with. You can always TP away, or walk away or fly away for that matter.

And then she just clicks stand up and flies away.

And once she sees something that she objects to she can stand up, TP away or log off.

What if she was fairly new and a newbie prey?

However, I don't see defending rape sims as a logical thing to do nor even to have them in the first place. It's sick period. Yeah, encourage rapists and raping, yeah sure. Oh, it's just against the law role play afterall.

Really? Would you be willing to tell us where this is?

Having them be in the same Act is one thing, that's just organization of the laws. But the same penalties? There's something seriously wrong with a criminal system that would impose the same penalty on someone engaging in cybersex with, say, a 16 yo they've never met and someone forcing or manipulating physical sex with a 16yo.

Well, some kids are pretty dumb and I could see one saying it just to be bragging -- "I'm underage and I managed to get an account here"

And in most places in the world it is against the law to kill people, but we allow that in Role Play. Ditto for slavery, but we have plenty of slavery in SL. In most places in the US, beastility is illegal, but we are not censoring that here either.


Because none of the above is REAL - it is not really happening.