Casino's and Gambling...

A few months back there was a story on the news about a 19yo guy who was talking online with a 16yo girl in the US for a few months before they decided to meet.

While he was on the flight, the girl got nervous and told her mother who in turn panicked and called the police and when he landed he was met by some friendly people who escorted him to jail to stand trial for "corruption of a minor online" and "attempt to have sex with a minor", neither of which was an actual crime where he lived given the negliable age difference.

Just because something is legal (or not illegal) where you happen to live doesn't mean you can simply ignore the laws of other countries and plead ignorance.

We're all adults, we know how to look up information, or if the information isn't clear then you consult with a lawyer to make sure your business is legal for you, legal for the country it's operating in and legal for international customers.

Proof that people should look to meet real life potential dates in real life first.

Personally I think they haven't put it in the TOS because they have no idea what they want their policy to mean notwithstanding what it explicitly says. There are plenty of machines operating right now in Second Life which clearly violate the stated non wagering policy in the blogs yet not only does Linden Lab turn a blind eye to them, it allows them to be advertised in the classifieds and some Linden Lab employees are so ignorant they have actually told operators that it is okay to have and use them while I know for a fact that at least one higher up Linden has shut down at least one sim's operations for it (not the sim itself but the dozens of machines in it).

LL should update their TOS. It's ridiculous for them to expect every new player to sift through all blog entries to find out what the real rules are.

The REAL reason gambling is against TOS is simply this:


And, gambling isn't against US law. The law in question disallows banks and credit card companies from funding "illegal internet gambling", without defining what "illegal internet gambling" is. SL had to make gambling illegal in order to be able to be paid by US credit card companies.

And to quote Claude Raines, "I'm SHOCKED, SHOCKED to find that there's GAMBLING going on here!"

If you want to do business in that country, you had better.

That's how I know it. Credit card companies fought long and hard to get this law passed. Even 'legal' gambling sites are not allowed to accept credit cards by US law. Somehow, somewhere and someone got the term 'gambling is a disease' official and it made precedence in a court of law. That being said, it being a 'disease' it's easy for those card holders to get out of paying the gambling debts on said credit cards in court. Credit card companies has lost millions because of this.


Even notice you can't buy a state lotto ticket with your credit card? ATM/Debit card yes, but not a credit card.





I really didn't want to post to this thread because of this blanket statement that I just found to be completely rude and offensive.

Chri5, don't make blanket statements and assumptions about all Americans. When you 'ass'ume this all you do is make an ass out of yourself. I'm not religious, nor is a lot of the US, and if they are a large percentage is not Christian.

All honesty, the way I look at it.. if you don't like the rules or agree with the laws LL has to abide with. Go elsewhere and play a different game.

This is interesting, I hadn't considered it from this angle before.

I imagine the credit card companies were having a large amount of defaulting due to gambling losses.

Exactly! It was a big ordeal a few years back, and this is why internet gambling is illegal.

If you take three steps back, and look at the big picture: Linden themselves, don't give two shits whether we gamble in Second Life. From a Linden perspective, this isn't a philosophical question - and San Francisco being the Liberal bastion that it is, this decision wasn't made on moral grounds.

Linden has outlawed gambling because the U.S. has enacted laws that make it so that U.S. based credit-card companies are not allowed to accept payments from 'Gambling Websites'. The definition of 'Gambling Websites' is so incredibly broad and vague, that Second Life could reasonably fall under that jurisdiction.

Even if you yourself don't hold a credit card issued by a bank based in the U.S., consider the implications of what would happen if all U.S. residents could no longer pay for SL via a credit card? Methinks the hundreds of U.S. dollars you were making per week before would evaporate this way too.

Couple Travis' and Theo's posts and put them out there the next time some other troll starts spouting off about the gambling ban being unfair, a plot to subject the rest of the world to US laws,blah, blah, blah...... It's all about Quatloos. nothing more, nothing less.

i, for one, welcome the OPs new gambling machines and wish him a rich and fulfilling ten minutes of SecondLife production. Cheers!

ONLINE GAMBLING OF ANY KIND IS ILLEGAL IN THE US!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Do people *never* search for threads before posting?

There are many laws across the world re online gambling, ultimately SL have to abide by US legislation.

I work for an online gaming company, which is also an American company and has to comply with the very same laws.

-----> gamblin is illegal





there it is, right up there, the location of where it specifically says gamblin is illegal.....

The credit card companies were not and are not remotely bothered about "Gambling being a disease", they were bothered about being fined for facilitating gambling in states where it is banned and didn't like the idea of going back and forth to court.

One of my credit card companies changed the rules on online gambling so that it's treated as a cash withdrawal now, that means it's more expensive for me to use my card for online gambling than it was so I simply refuse to buy the idea that they were bothered about debt.

To addon to those like myself that live other then the USA ( Japan)( without of the fuzzy bs talk behind it) I had to tell the credit card company here to ok all the transations, because LLABs seems to have be put on a black listing of companies that uses their services. Base on issues and or ( possibilty Online gambling). But the facts are in Japan one can still use a credit card to gamble with. There seems to be some kind of fuzzy logic between that is real and what is not. As long as the credit card companies are allowed to OK payments to said actions. All it ok. So there blows that idea of overseas credit cards and LLABS.

That may be the law for the state you live in. I live in California and that's the law here. I wont argue something unless I know I'm correct. As for 'gambling is a disease', that was the case as some companies lost from what I recall $250 million+. These people with a certified doctor diagnosing them with said disease got them out of paying the gambling debts they put on their credit card.

I'll research and find the state legislature and federal government laws. To back my statements.

With gambling and casinos taking place on LLabs servers (which are located in California) they would not be allowed to take credit card payments for memberships, tiers, Lindens. No matter where your country/state of residence is due to it being illegal in California.

All credit card companies care about is profits. They don't care about how they manage that or how people spend their money. The only reason they'd have been in favour of a law change is because some of them had voluntarily gone down the route of blocking payments because they were getting charged left, right and centre by states for facilitating gambling.

The last thing they'd have wanted was for another company to be cashing in when they were cashing out.

If credit card companies are having to ignore debts because gambling is a disease then it's any wonder they get any money back, all overspending can be put down to a disease.

I totally and completely understand your point. I do not disagree with you at all. Since you live in West Midlands, I'm guessing thats West Midlands, England?. Your laws and creditors are so completely different then in the United States.

So no matter how much you disagree with me about the US laws and the way CC companies do their business is a waste of time for us to argue. See my point?



Edit:

What I mean by people who gamble online(or off line using a credit card) and not having to pay their creditors. With gambling being considered a "disease" in most states, it's a loop-hole that said gamblers get to file for chapter 7 bankruptcy much more easily(what I mean by easily, there is no thought process when they see on the paperwork that the debtor has said diease) then those who try to file for buying too many clothes, big screen tv, top of the line computer, $65K Mercedes, etc. When someone can write off $100k in gambling debts.. wouldn't that cut into the CC companies profits?

It's totally unfair and there is still stuff going on about it in congress to this day.

No I think we're at crossed wires actually. I'm not arguing that gambling should be legal in SL, heck I like a gamble and wouldn't really touch gambling in SL with a bargepole whilst it's unregulated, even if LL posted today that they'd had a change of heart.

My creditors aren't so different, I regularly get post from companies familiar to you asking me to take credit from them, Capital One, Citibank, Morgan Stanley yadda yadda yadda. It's a global marketplace these days.

However if the core of the problem for these companies was people being excused from paying back debt because gambling is a disease, I'm sure citibank, Morgan Stanley and Capital One would be blocking online gambling payments worldwide, it would be a silly business move to be losing large sums of money when they can do something about it. Don't you think?

I agree, it is a global market. Capital, Citibank, etc are the same yes. But country to country they are different. Like a subsidiary of the main corporation due to the different laws in each country.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Online_gambling#Online_poker
http://www.usdoj.gov/ust/eo/public_affairs/articles/docs/gambling.htm
http://www.dcba.org/brief/decissue/1999/art21299.htm

Just a few examples of information about it.

If LL had a change of heart they would be prosecuted by the state and local laws reguarding online gambling.

Either way, I'm done with the topic. I was just trying to help explain to the masses that don't know or care(as the OP said). Offering up information so those think just because it's legal when they are at think it should be everywhere, as thats the frame of mind of many.

Tho, I did enjoy the discussion.

Hahah what you think gambling was banned? If you read my post I was refering to credit cards and outside useage. I repeat in japan there is no problem with gambling and credit card use......... Some person try to explain out people outside the usa and their assumption about gambling was totally wrong.