Merging Teen and Main grid?!!?

LOL, I said steamier side of SL. He has more than enough interest in the live (non-pixel) version of steamy though

its both infuriating and disgusting that Daniel Linden or any other Linden would push the idea of merging the grid, after the vicious attacks on Second Life role play community where they claim to be so concerned with real life children being directly or indirectly exposed to some type of abuse. really?

Then you are gonna merge the teen and adult grids? i know im not the only one who must see the blatant hypocrisy of this. There is absolutely no valid reason to do it. All i ever see in Second Life anymore is selfishness and greed from Lindens and entourage. at the expense of their own residents, and if this plan becomes reality, at the expense of real children that have no business interacting in world with adults and we all know it.

we all know exactly whats going to happen, pg regions, age verifications or not. its going to be a complete disaster. and if you think Linden Lab gets bad publicity now, just wait until there is a real story for the media. it will only be a matter of time. and they will have no one except themselves to blame for their own greed and apathy.

Mark my words. and while Linden Labs is picking on/bullying their own residents, they fail to see that these plans are going to create an actual and real threat not only to residents but to their own misguided company. i see the future of Second Life and its one big empty mall with no life, no spark. Vast spaces of internet spam sites with no substance.

They took our world that we created and turned it into something shameful. Something based only on pure greed. 4 years in Second Life and i have seen all the warning signs along the way. But 4 years is not long enough to absorb and accept what these people have done to this platform. i will never forget it.

im completely disappointed and before you tell me to pack it up and leave Second life, just dont even bother. Going open source was the only good thing Linden Lab has done in a very long time. Philip gave up on it and stepped down. There is nothing stopping the vultures now. Second Life is over. Game over.

That has been proven to be a grave mistake. (>_<

Ya it is lol but dont think that many get it lol

actually it could apply in a couple ways

You have Blue Laws about adult stuff

then of course teens today grew up with Blue's clues on TV.



And of course some people are blue over the whole idea.

I think this is probably correct. I'm not sure if I'm restating the obvious or completely off the mark, but it seems to me that LL is trying to get to a point where it can claim something like "common carrier" status: analogous to an ISP. Or maybe an ISP and a web-hosting services company and a browser developer. But anyway, a collection of endeavors that are in no way responsible for user-generated content nor its distribution.

That's surely more scalable, as a business model, than would be a mere "computer game", and a lot less fraught with legal complexity. Except, for now, it's clearly not even a plausible fiction.

But if someday we all have to agree to a ToS in which we indemnify LL for all content "hosted" on our parcels, well... then age verification really becomes our problem. Nice of LL to give us IDV as a tool, then.

At that point, one really would have to leave. Nobody could afford the RL liabilities, just for whatever enjoyment or income the platform generates.

First, the infrastructure issues aren't a major problem. My understanding is that the Teen Grid and the adult grid are really part of the same collection of servers; it's just a matter of access flags and so forth. Some new programming would be required to enable mixed-access areas, but I don't think it would be difficult.

I believe that there is a real need for controlled areas that would be open to both teens and adults. Such areas would be continually monitored by Lindens or other approved people (educators or other third parties who had passed background checks) who would have full land ban privileges; the region would be required to close when no authorized adults were available. As somebody else pointed out, we would also have to block IM and object transfer between teens and adults, except that transfers to and from the approved adults would be permitted (so teachers could hand out and receive assignments, for example). It might be useful to create the ability to have groups with mixed membership, but group IM would only be allowed when an authorized adult was present; such groups could also be used to distribute objects to the group members (safe, as only the authorized adults would have the ability to send group notices).

The other thing I would like to see is a way to link family members. Family members would be allowed to transfer objects and L$, and send IM to each other. One simple way to control this would be to require that all the relevant accounts be paid with the same credit card or PayPal account.

No sarcasm there, Qie, but probably not what you think.
I think most teens are insane and generally gigantic pains in the behind. I think they should be kept in their own playpen until they can function in society. (yes, I realize that the kids belonging to those reading this are mature, responsible, non-griefing, drama-free assets to society - I'm talking about OTHER people's kids)

I questioned why any adult would WANT them (the annoying ones belonging to other people) around, except to make money from them (by selling them things - what were you thinking?? ).
Therefore, I can't understand why any adult resident in SL would be in favour of merging the grids UNLESS it's financially profitable or they have unwholesome intentions, neither of which is any reason to go ahead with this moronic idea.

I don't like kids. They're short and immature.
(Wish I knew who I'm quoting here)

I am not actively playing in Runescape for reason....
Truthfully I got no problem with kids because I am not here for sex.
Yet when I played more often on Runescape there were few incidents
that made me decided I wanted to be around Adults or at least where the
majority behave like Adults.
I don't want to play a game or be content creator in a virtual world where I have
to worry about neglected kids who are on internet 24/7 personally.
That is why I left Runescape.
I am not interesting in paying to be member for place where I have to also
be responsible for someone's children.
And this is coming from someone who sometimes dress up as child and all because I like being creative kid who is into learning and be magical child elf.
Yet it has nothing to do with really be child nor does it have to do with doing grown up activities either.

Then let me emphsize the word "general" in my original post. Granted, throughout the hour-long meeting, there were some aspects that received less support, and some that received more. I won't post any more snippets as they would be taken out of context. My concern is that there is at least one Linden that seems to be wanting this, and has had more than one meeting on the subject. It's my hope (and purpose for starting this thread) that he will really listen to residents' views on the matter, and that resident will be watchful.

there is a quote from jerrassic park along the lines of" kids- like humans only smaller"

Yeah, but unless some adults show an interest in them sometime, they'll just get tall and immature (and someday graduate to the Main Grid and hang out at Welcome Areas practicing an infinite supply of freebie gestures). After all, some people like to *teach* kids. Some even teach primary school kids, who are not only shorter and more immature, but also messy and often smell bad.

After all, we don't ban kids from libraries, concerts, galleries, the ballet, etc. And in the long run it won't be bad for SL if the balance of content shifted toward the sort of thing in which a precocious teenager might have interest--or at least be able to experience without damage. There's lots such content now, and it's kind of a shame all teens have to be excluded.

Kind of playing devil's advocate here, but... imagine if IDV actually worked--that it didn't require information illegal to request in some countries, and that an average fifth-grader couldn't verify by reading the obits, nor as the neighbor's dachshund. And suppose that it actually meant something to restrict a parcel to verified-only (as opposed to the current situation where anybody can just cam in, and avatar access is permitted according to no discernible pattern). Suppose all that actually *worked*. Then I don't really see a big problem with restricting adult content to parts of a merged grid that are inaccessible to teens. And adults can remain in the restricted areas if they want to be sure they never interact with anyone lacking a bona fide high school diploma.

But that's just dealing with "geography" really. To ensure some legally defensible constraints on interactions, there simply must remain a special, underage player category, identifiable to all, with strict limits of interaction between them and those outside that category: no IMs, for example, nor (God help us) private voice chats. And serious enforcement--criminal fraud prosecution and civil damages against parents--for any minor misrepresenting as an adult. They should do that on the Main Grid now, in fact.

This issue has been talked about for a very long time. The Rumor makers are once again have nothing else better to do then to starting this issue up again. No it will not happen, thegame changed so much and seemly LLABS doesnt care how old you are unless your crash enough to say your real age in public chat.

I know why LL want to merge the grids. You know how new SL releases always crash as a result of not being properly tested?

I think it's because all the whizzkids at LL who put in the shiny new bells and whistles are all 14 and 15 year old geeks, and they can't test it properly because they're not actually allowed onto the main grid.

"whizzkids at LL"? Don`t give that much credit :/

They would still have to have safe TG areas, perhaps their own continent, and then there would have to be sdult only continents too and seein LL has neglected to do any zonibng from day 1 this would be a nightmare of land reclaiming etc to acheive a totally PG continent for them to mix with us, then of course there's the problem of sexual predators.

A new TOS/EULA stating that everything in SL must be acceptable for all ages to experience, and an immediate ban for anyone displaying improper content, or speaking inappropriately in the presence of, or to, minors.

The lucky few who can get age verification to stick can go onto private islands set with that restriction.

Wait, where did you all go? Come back...

For those saying it will never happen and that nothing has been done about IDV for a year or so... You missed that the latest official viewer actually includes the land options necessary to begin restricting users from your land based on their age-verified adult status. This ability and tool for land-owners is now a part of everyone's SL toolset. So something HAS changed, it just changed without any 'announcement'

Section 2.2 of the TOS already states "

The Knowledge Base article concerning "Age Verification Parcel and Estate Management Features" already states

The Knowledge Base article entitled "Age Verification FAQ" does state that the program is still in Beta, however...

Has Linden Lab ever needed anything to work all the time for everyone before rolling it out onto the main grid?

Everything's in place, even if it doesn't work 100% yet. Can anyone think of anything LL has dropped on our laps without thinking it all the way thru or that didn't work in anyway they thought it would?

Merging the Teen and Main grids is inevitable and is moving forward, IMHO. When LL states emphatically that they "cannot absolutely control whether minors gain access to the Service" it actually does seem to be a slap in the face to any teen who's actually gone thru the proper procedure to gain access to the Teen grid. It also makes the Teen grid pretty redundant.

And don't expect LL to do much enforcing ... other then banning people who fail to tag their land as "age-verified adult" restricted even tho they thought their bondage horse wasn't really excessively sexual or violent.

Age-Verification isn't going to have to "work" for everyone before they roll it out onto the main grid. It will just have to work for LL's lawyers when they get slapped with a lawsuit because Little Johnny's mom saw him strapped to a St Andrew's Cross. Then LL can calmly state that they are not responsible for user created content... see, it says so right here in the TOS.

Who IS responsible? Same people who created this world, created it's content, made the St. Andrew's Cross and then allowed Little Johnny to interact with it by not setting their property to restrict Little Johnny's access.

That would be... You. After all, it's Your World and Your Imagination... ain't it?

"I like kids... but I could never eat a whole one" - Hexidecimal

But I think the fear is that LL are going to do what they have done before - give people all this responsibility without providing them with any of the tools to enable them to engage it.

I mean, let's see what we have now:

Europeans are responsible for VAT registration if they want to claim back VAT for business purposes. However, no tools for checking if a L$ buyer is European or charging them VAT on their purchase.

Residents are responsible if they buy content that turns out to have been illegally uploaded or copied by the seller. However, no tools for the buyer to check if the material is illegal, nor for the seller to prove that it is not, in a way that cannot be easily lied about.

And now residents are responsible if an underage child accesses their build - but no tools to verify age that work reliably, can't be lied about, and that can restrict access at lower than the parcel level (thus creating the "we can't raise our children in our own house because we sometimes have sex in the bedroom" problem).

And won't it just be wonderful for the teens when every parcel that is not age-verified has to be set no-build, no-object-entry, no-script to prevent a griefer dropping a prim 'member' onto it?

if you merge the main with the teen you get mainteen

no you get total chaos,cat and dogs sleeping together i't will be horrable

Even if 100% of the SL residents on both the main grid and teen grid were to somehow honestly get age-verified, so all those who were under 18 were flagged as such, and all those over 18 were flagged as adults, the ability to retstict access based on that age verification is so patheticly lame as to be almost non-existant.

Age verification only blocks access to the parcel edges and to 50 M above the terrain. Nothing else. It won't prevent a child from hovering at 51 M or higher above your land, or accessing your skybox. It won't prevent them from standing just outside your parcel boundary and camming in to see and hear everything, or to buy from any vendors in the restricted area.

There are NO LSL calls that a scripter can use to prevent a person who is not age verified from using a vending script or scripted pose balls or any other scripted items.

There are NO LSL calls that a scripter can use to detct age verification status so that a security orb can exclude people who are not age-verified.

There is NO way for any Player in SL to determine for themselves the age-verification status of any other individual, so you can make an informed decision about whether or not they should be allowed access to your sim, your group, or your land.

While you CAN restrict access sim-wide so a person who is not age verified can't TP to a private island sim at all, you can't do that while also restricing access in any OTHER way, except for denying access to individuals with no payment info on file. You can not, for example, have a private sim that is supposed to be accessed only by members of a certain land group, and at the same time insist that only those members who are age-verified may have access.

Amen. I didn't join SL to become a babysitter. Or to watch out to make sure other people's kids don't get into some mischief on my land.

You don't need to know that, L$ purchases don't fall within the scope of VAT, there's nothing to claim back therefore and nothing to add on.