Can we get some clarification here?

You are on a Roll!!!

They should do both of these

Name checking when typing in Names, etc is fairly common in online games. Shouldnt surprise anyone.

I don't understand what the difficulty is here, the TOS states no mature content in group names. How hard is it to work out what would be acceptable for people to have as group showing should they walk into a PG area with their title active?

Simple. There are a few people who have difficulty knowing just how far they can push the envelope of decency in Second Life, and expect Linden Lab to spell it out for them. While for most people, the terms of service and community standards provide for a reasonable statement of expectation on the part of Linden Lab, these folks are not satisfied, and they will not be satisfied until Linden Lab spoon feeds to them each and every word they cannot say, and each and every thing they cannot do.

Yes, because asking for clarification when there's still at least one open group for "beastiality" (sic) is such a sign of indecency on our parts.

Again, what one person think appeals to the prurient interest is not the same as what another thinks. And if you don't believe that, consider all the people who go on about the evil homosexuals and their perversion. Is their standard the one I am to follow? Why is it too much to ask to simply have them spell out what they will allow or won't. Or, as Gaybot (oh my god, I'm so offended ) said, just have a freakin' filter in the first place, if it's such a big deal to the company.

Here's my take. And it more or less mirrors on what Zaphod (a person I've batted heads with on numerous occassions ) has said. The TOS is really not that hard to understand even if it does have a sort of legalize tone to it........quite common in such documents. The problem has been that for at least a year (time I've been associated with SL) Linden Labs has not enforced their own "rules". I believe that because of two reasons. First, they just did not have time for it. And second, they seem to have a very naive belief that people (adult people) will "play nice" on their own without any supervision. Unfortunately, the second reason is just not a fact of life in any real world sense (and all the residents of SL are very much real people in a real life in a real world). LL, in their overly optimistic view of people, have created a monster both for themselves and their residents. Their almost total lack of communications has allowed people to think "anything goes" here.........it's "my world and no one can tell me how to act in my world". And that will never work..............NEVER.

Any society (virtual or real) has to have rules.......anarchy has never worked in history. To lay out the rules is only the start. Enforcement is necessary for it to work and SL has had very little enforcement since I've been here. Without enforcement some will take that to mean that there are no rules..........at least no rule against "what I want to do" in SL. No action taken against others so no action should be taken against me.

I'm not talking about the majority of members of SL..........I'm talking about the narrow minded "me, me" part. The people who think that because it's important to them then to hell with the majority (or even the "creators" of the society). It's the "you're picking on me, discrimminating against me" crowd. A minority of the society but a quick to shout foul crowd. And thats who I'm hearing shouting right now.

Had LL been enforcing their own TOS from day one and been consistant there would be no problem today. Everyone would know what the rules and limits were. No confusion. If you wanted to be outside the TOS you knew you were subject to expulsion.......no appeals. LL created this problem..............and now they do, in fact, need to clarify. If nothing else than to simply tell everyone the TOS is being strictly enforced and if you are outside the rules then get inside fast...........or be banned. There can never be a specific list of what is and is not "acceptable". And only a fool or moron would require such a list anyway...........if you can't understand a straight forward document then you have no business signing up...............of course, I'm assuming you are an adult able to read.

Now flame me and tell to leave like some have done here when I voice my opinions. I ain't leaving so easily................LOL.

[Responding to Lorelei Patel]:

I think the problem is, no matter how long a list of specific "forbiddens" you come up with, somebody will come up with something equally foul that hadn't been thought of, and then, with wide,-eyed innocent outrage say: "But you didn't include that on your ban list!"

And then there's euphemisms...

LL wants and needs a policy, not a cat-and-mouse game.

I think I'm going to have to light a candle, and maybe pop open a bottle of bubbly. I agree with everything Peggy Paperdoll just said!

*writes up a press release*

Woot woot.........................LOL

Careful Peggy. I hear they are coming after Paperdolls nrxt......

I know a Second Life lawyer. IM me Peggy.

Look, I'm a gay woman in my 50s who lives in a very conservative, evangelical-ridden part of the U.S. I know as much, if not a great deal more, about the diversity of community standards and the imposition of restrictions on civil liberties as anyone on this forum.

I do not allow other people to dictate who I live with and who I sleep with, but I DO allow community standards to influence my public behavior. Respecting the rights of others is just as important to me as having them respect mine; and I'll do my part whether or not they do theirs.

When in public, I don't French kiss my partner (anymore than I would do so with a male husband). It's not appropriate public behavior. If I'm in a very conservative area, I don't hold her hand in public either, but I might do so if I'm in a large urban area with different values. Het couples get to hold hands, but I don't. It's not fair, and it makes me steam, but I KNOW what the community standards are and I abide by them. My energy is better spent trying to change the legal restrictions that lost my lover her medical benefits than it is outraging some little old Baptist lady in the grocery store.

A measure of maturity is the ability for an adult to recognize that it's okay to wear a bikini at the beach, but a sign of disrespect and lack of judgment to wear it to a business meeting.

LL has erred on the side of extreme leniency in enforcing community standards, a policy that has made my SL life closer to living in San Francisco than West Virginia, and it really pisses me off to see people abuse that license. Because when you draw attention to just how poor individual judgment can be and how immature residents can act in a Mature area, you're inviting a draconian response.

I could not have said it better myself.

Somewhere along the line, LL started ignoring community standards in favor of working on network, grid, server and client problems. Somehow, that got equated with the idea that SL is all about individual rights. But it never was that. The Community Standards clearly states that ALL public content in Event Listings, Classified Ads, Property Listings, and Profiles must be rated PG. It has said that for as long as I've been here, which is going on three years now.

And now, suddenly, we're hearing arguments of slippery slopes, falling skies, and the end of human rights in SL. No. Wrong. It's LL finally getting back on the job. Nothing more and nothing less. And I for one welcome it.

Kam

(And the next person who equates pedophilia, rape and homosexuality--that somehow these three are next on the list--needs to take a hard long look at THEIR attitudes about human rights, not LL's.)

Two outstanding posts. The Creators have set Community Standards, and are in their right to enforce them, hopefully with consistency. In addition, we as the Community can do our part to keep our yards clean.

You know Gloria Alright?

I, personnallly, could not agree more.

I've sat on my hands all week. They're numb, so I'm glad for the opportunity to pull them out and whole-heartedly agree.

I agree with Beebo 100%
I'm also a Gay Woman. I was Also raised with certain standards of decency and decorum, things that are ok in Public, other things that should remain Private. I had Courtesy, and Respect for others Taught me at an Early age, and consistantly so they are First Nature to me.

I'm a Domme. IRL, And in SL. When going about in SL, My girls are Clothed according to community Standards. (Always covered, But More revealing in Mature areas, Less in PG. When among my own community, we conform to thier standards, when elsewhere, we live by the accepted community standards of the Sim. I concure whole heartedly that demonstrating that kind of self discipline IS a sign of Maturity,

I've read the TOS, and the CS. Now, I never Graduated Highschool (Expelled for NOT living up to CS. Lol), so the Language used in them seems elementary to me, then anybody should be able to Understand it. Yes, LL Has been lenient, that's a Granted, we have all read here the complaints about the Lack of Lindens Policing, and Many have Damned them for it. Recently, LL DID say in thier Blog that there were changes being made, and Policing, and Enforcement would be Improving. Guess what? They HAVE and Part of it is, Some people who thought Policing was Only needed for "The Other Guy" have discovered that they ARE the Other Guy, and they need to Clean up thier acts Also.
Now, I have NO trouble at all Living my Lifestyle in LL. Others will ALSO have no difficulty living thier lifestyle Once they adjust to the idea that they can do so WITHOUT Forcing it under other peoples Noses. all you have to do is remember you are NOT the only person in SL, and Yours are Not the Only Feelings, and values that Matter.
LL's note to the age player areas said as much. It reminded them of the TOD/CS, and told them thier advertising, Group Information, and displays were crossing a Line. they don't have to Stop being age players, all they have to do is bring thier advertising, group information, and Displays Back into compliance with TOS/CS.

Well said Beebo.

Angel.

Look, I'm not going to argue against LL enforcing their ToS. But what I can't stand are these double standards. Ageplay is more or less banned because of some vague international laws, but online gambling is okay (And no, we don't need to break out into a discussion of this on this thread, it's in a dozen others).

Same thing with these ToS enforcements. You can't just go for years without enforcement, then suddenly cherry pick groups to rename and people to ban. You can't ban the founder of "Fluid Guzzling Promiscuous Females" while you leave "Bukkake Scat Fun Club" untouched, and not expect a community outcry.

The proper thing to have done is have a simple announcement on the LL blog. Here, I'll write one right now, takes three minutes, and if a Linden is reading, feel free to copy and paste:

"Since launch, we've been very lenient in enforcing our Terms of Service when it comes to group names. We finally have enough resources to dedicate to this task, and we will be actively enforcing it in the next week. Please make sure that your group names, pages, and personal profiles do not contain content that would be inappropriate in a PG rated movie."

That would be a strong stance from LL, and would be a lot more effective than these pseudo-Gestapo tactics. The word would get out, most SL'ers would comply, and no one would need to be banned. Plus, the outcry would be far less severe.

And just as a side note, does anyone else find it odd that the most conservative voices in this thread are a lesbian and a guy named Zaphod?

Is quite a few conservative lesbians. I dated one for a short time.

Thats the only Zaphod conservative I know though.

Okay - there is a difference between what I said -



I dont think they will make a blog post saying they are suddenly stepping up enforcement, becuase that would be admitting they were lax in a very public way.

Im actually okay with them toning down advertizing and the visible side of the sex industry - PROVIDED they make a way for it to be fairly unrestricted in the proper place.

I dont think enforcing CS will reduce sexual activity - on the contrary by making it less omnipresent it will restore a lil bit of the naughty flavor.

Thing is if there no where for the advertzing , promotion, etc to go- then I would consider it censorship.

Its one thing to say - You cant have your group named that but your Mature rated Classified ad can say that.

Its another thing entirely to say - we dont want that around here.

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Now where does this racist group fit in? Is that still going to be against CS?

That note for LL is almost perfect.

But, I know Zaphod states in his profile he's gay..............but show where I've said I was a lesbian, please. Nothing is further from the truth. And I think I'm about as conservative as can be on this topic. It's not about gender preferrences in any way. It's about common decency.

he meant Angelique

I'm FAR from conservative Mon Chere, but what i AM is considerate, and respectful of Others. It allows me to Live my life Very freely Indeed, and surprisingly, it allows Others to do the same.
It's a Pity people seem to View such values as a negative. If Respect were a Little more universal SL would be an Ideal place to live, But people Mistake freedom for Licence to do as they please regardless of others, and that is why LL has had to start leaning on people.

Angel.

The selfishness that has permeated RL has made it's way into SL....wanting the enencumbered right to live as we please, even if it infringes on others excercising the same rights.