Discussion Thread - Details on the Q2 2008 Island Price Change

Change is and will be inevitable. Particularly, in a pioneering technology such as Second life. With every change that LL has announced through the years, and there have been many (those of us who have been around for awhile have seen them come and go), there is always the accompanying "doom and gloom the sky is falling" cry from reactionaries like yourself. And through all the change, SL is still here and still just as viable as it has ever been. Yes, it has slowed from the 2006 population boom, but it has still sustained a stable growth rate.

So you can huff and puff all you want, but since history has indeed already proved me right, that would still make you the one needing to come to an understanding.



And this is exactly what they are trying to accomplish with their ongoing changes and adjustments. So you go into a long drawn out discertation, only to conclude by making my point.? Thank you. I think.

Well... we have to either lump it or like it! Stay or leave...the choice is yours!
For some that have lost a lot of money in SL either though bank frauds, land fraud, content fraud,land devalulation, VAT etc etc.........the liking part is becoming increasingly harder.

Yes, SL can do whatever it wants and in the main, we just have to accept it...or walk.
All of this was done, whilst there was not viable competitor on the market.

I would like to see LL try pulling some of these stunts once a serious rival competitor hits the market!

...and there's those who refuse to hear the warnings from the engineer stating that the bridge is about to fall - and they die with it. We can play these games on words until the cows come home. But, obviously, we don't speak the same brand of English.

We are talking here about proper way to communicate and deal with clients - which is a crucial element that LL better understand if they want to ensure the success of SL. Simple fact. Many companies with great ideas have failed because they ignored it. If you and LL do not want to see the LL name added to that list, you better start understanding basic concepts of customer service.

It's pretty funny to be called a reactionary simply for pointing out a lack of proper management. An austrich can win the race IF it doesn't put its head in the sand... But, hey, good luck!

(P.S.: Thankfully enough, I believe LL most likely understand more than you the mistake they did this week and I have a certain level of confidence that LL will do better next time - which is why I am still here. If not, then, who cares? Other companies will provide that kind of service one day and life will go on with or without LL...)

Well I measured it in tier because tier is relative to the land model. A month's tier a year? Pffft, but I'd expect to see increases in performance on new sims as well as a decrease in price. I fully expect to see prices fall, it's the speed I have a problem with.

With VAT is was the way they announced it. I found out about it before they'd even emailed me.

In both circumstances I feel LL didn't perform as well as they could. In both circumstances LL made moves reactively to try to placate discontent. Let's not forget that the initial announcement said that current island orders would be $1675. How on earth did they think anyone with an island on order was going to be happy with that?

I still don't think so many people would be screaming at a 275 dollar decrease. Some people would be unhappy, but nowhere near as many and a gentle decrease gets people accustomed to the idea that their asset will depreciate, it hadn't happened here before had it? I know before I came prices went up, has there ever been a decrease before?

Yes of course they have learned.

Is that why they reacted in such an improved manner in this instance, after having reacted in such poor similar manner in the dozens of instances prior to this one?

But let's get to the point Sean. How do you want them to react? Do you want them to hug you and hold your hand as they make all of these necessary difficult and painful decisions. Meanwhile, while they cuddle you and pamper you, the market passes them by leaving you, LL, and the entire SL platform to weep and wonder how great it all might have been only if. Let's face it, in situations like these, it doesn't matter how you break the news. There is going to be that portion of the population who is going to be up in arms.

Bottom line. LL's research revealed that they needed to bring prices down fast in order to remain competitive. It was determined at this time, that in order to remain viably competitive, prices would need to be brought down to the $1000 per sim level. This is as high as they could have kept prices right now, before they brought them down further when the competition floods the market. So that it doesn't matter how you break the news, the end result will ultimately be the same.

Do you think it would have been any less painful to the residents if every month for the next six months they reduced sim prices $100 dollars per month. That would be worse! It would only serve to prolong the agony and the cry would be ongoing and far greater than it is now.

Without getting into my own drawn out discertation, this was inevitable and it had to happen now. Why? Because like the blogs says, there are further changes coming down the pipe.

Word to the wise going forward. The real profit is in the content offered within that server space (land) you buy, not the server space (land) itself, because that will continue to fluctuate wildly.

So that if you must invest in SL server space (Land), do so wisely.

The price to buy a private island had never gone down before now.

Lets say you're correct with your pricing predictions and that tiers remain more or less constant.....i think this would lead to a real disaster under the existing SL grid set-up.

IMO most Private Estates are set up that they are either making money from their rented or leased lands versus paying LL Tiers......if not making money than a significant contribution towards LL Tier is being covered by the above model. If sims dropped dramatically in price to whatever low level you predicted....a lot of existing small land owners would either sell or more likely abandon their lands in favour of buying their own SIM as its become more affordable.

What happens to the 1000's of SIM owners left holding half empty sims? The ones that paid high initial prices and now on top have to pay Tiers out of their own pocket because the rental/leasing market has collapsed?

To a degree we're beginning to see this at the top end of parcel ownership. Anyone that could afford to rent/lease a 1/2 sim, might as well buy a SIM now. The purchase price and tiers differential are probably not that great anymore

Likewise with owners of 1/4 sims and above.....you might as well buy or rent an Openspace sim, you get as many prims, more land size and the costs and tier charges are
are about the same. This really only leaves the market to support smaller plots rentals albeit with far more land providers on same grid.

I think the bottom line is that making a business out of land ownership has probably had its day!

You can be sarcastic and have fun... Meanwhile, there are clients out there who expect to be treated professionally by the company they buy products and/or services from.

If you think that being professional with your clients is pampering them and holding their hand... Well... You are right! In fact, that is exactly how it is explained in many business books! And that is exactly what successfull companies do around the world. Furthermore, when the going gets tough, you want to pamper your current clients even more than normal.

There are many ways they could have reached the exact same result in a much more professional fashion. Simple. But it starts with a decision to BE professional.

I won't presume to know what the consequences will be Rene. But the end result you describe may well be a real probability. Another result could be that with the advent of cheaper sims, we many need to purchase several sim in order to realize the same profit potential we are generating now. So that the adjustment may be going from expensive but fewer sims and fewer rentals to less expensive, more sims and more rentals. One thing I can more accurately guarantee is that there will be consequences along the way. We will simply just need to adapt to ongoing change if we want to survive.

Its either that or suffer the same fate as others who have been unable to adapt to change. Extinction.

P.S - And no I am not calling anyone a Do-Do Bird

I am just being honest Sean. I know this news brings pain to many and my sympathies go out to everyone negatively affected by this notice.

Pioneering technology in its infancy and "I told you so" really don't go together.

I have 2 questions for the nay-sayers here (who says "dropping price is fine, you should have expected it, you didn't expect that then its your fault!".

1. Do you understand that most of us here agrees and expected, and accept the price drops?

2. Do you understand that the point people (including me) make against your comments are about Linden's way of announcement (only 1 week before the changes take effect, which is "abnormal", and how they treated the customers? (not by dropping the price, its circular!!)



If you don't understand either of it, could you please explain to us why because I just don't get it!

Have you all considered this may be just the first step of many to meet the competition. or should LL waited till the competition was at our door selling sims for $100 and then drop SL sim pricing by $1600 in one big hit?
Tier is going to drop soon too, if it doesn't we will all leave to the opposition who have LL software and maybe even better direction as well, having the benefit of seeing SL mistakes, and able to correct things at the start where LL can't go back fto change direction or fear of breaking too much content.
Userbase is all LL have, the competion have all their software.........

If you're a courier, yes the van is a direct tool of your trade and an investment, you don't pick a van on what holds value best, you pick the one that does the job best you can afford. And 40% isn't uncommon for a workhorse vehicle to loose value in 5 years, especially if it's in the basic end of the market. Some vans are nearly stuffed at that age, and a van you paid 40% more for shouldn't be worth 40% more in 5 years time than the other same model vans.
By asking LL to repay existing landowners $695 they are devalueing new land buyers land. And if Island owners deserve it then so do all mainland owners too by the decrease in their value as a result, so every 16m adfarm is even entiled to a 40% refund too.

Oh come on, you're moving the goalposts! 40% in 5 years I'd accept, I expect it to be higher than that to be honest but I expect tier to drop too.



That's unrealistic but if they were to offer me discounts to the value of on multiple purchases, say $50 off my next 12 island purchases or something, that would work. Customer loyalty should be rewarded.

My main gripe is that this discount should have been more creative, say $1400 for your first sim and $900 for your second sim or buy 3 $1400 sims and get a fourth three. The figures work out around the same but I wouldn't have felt the cuts were so drastic.

Hmm my impression has been that tier will be restructured, rather than drop. Long term tier surely has to drop but I'm not sure how soon. Tier however is a huge barrier to expansion as it stands due to how much tier you have to pay going into the next bracket. If you have half a sim and want just a bit more land you're in full tier territory, that must put people off.

But what happens if the van breaks down in the middle of nowhere and the plumber isn't very good with engines?. Have you considered that?

Exactly! So why not treat your userbase (clients) in a pamper way instead of a cowboy way? Why not do exactly what they did but in professional manner?

I imagine that the end costs will be the same, but that there will be more tier intervals between 2048 and and a full sim. I think it is wishful thinking for full sim tier to go down, but it could happen too. I would just expect more granularity first.

Here are my views in very laconic form:

This is fantastic for people who do not any property. Good for them !

This sucks for people like me, because my investment (which it was) just went down by 40%. I'll remember this next time I have to make any LL related decisions, believe me.

I do not believe for one nanosecond that this had anything to do with ongoing business strategy. It had everything to do with desperation and the fact that REAL competition is gradually creeping up on them. Never in my entire life have I seen a business do this unless it was DESPERATE. I would never do it. Hell no. How do you explain to the other owners/stockholders that you just dropped prices by 40% on your key income producing good ? Because you wanted to be a nice guy/lady ? Pfft. Yeah, right.

I am no expert in customer service, but their customer service, in general, over the past 2.5 years has SUCKED. I have nothing against any of the individual Lindens, but the overall company direction from the top has been a disaster.

I, along with the other current sim owners, just got a swift kick in the groin. Does it inspire loyalty in me to the current regime ? Um, NO.

/rant off

So we all agree it would have been better to let them keep charging the same extorbant prices for another 10 years and just ignore the competition

Unfortunately LL were the pioneers of Virtual Worlds and were always going to be the ones going to experience the most growing pains. The copiers have a distinct advantage in this area and might be able to produce a more stable platform from the outset.

For all LL's faults...the bank frauds,gambling bans,age play sex,VAT, land re-evaluation, land price manipulation.....the single most important thing that matters to the majority of SL players would be to have Grid stability & functionality. That IMO would keep the majority of users happy and continue to play this SL game.

The other side of the coin, if a rival competitior comes onboard and provides that stability and fucntionallity.....regardless of what LL dangles in terms of pricing, it will evenutally become a dead duck!

I'm not arguing for refunds or whatever. It is what it is.

My own opinion, is that LL could have gone a different route which would equally boost land growth, both on Mainland and premium a/c memberships as well as on Private Estates.......and that was to lower the entire Tier pricing structure accross the board.....that would have stimulated growth and retention rates. You need to bring more customers into play, even if its just to buy a small 1024 sq/m plot...it all feeds upwards as people move re-size according to their SL budgets.....you need to add to the food chain!

As for dropping the value overnight by 40%......maybe the likes of Ahnse Chung (500 + sims), Fantasyland (200 sims), Alliez Estates (90 +) Fairchang Estates, Surreal Estates (200 sims) etc etc......are best qualified to say how they feel about this latest LL policy, afterall they're the ones that have probably spent 6-figure dollar amounts and stand to lose the most. (or maybe not,as they might have recovered a large portion of that investment already thorugh recycled profits)

Well its a toss up between that and decreasing sim prices gradually by $25 dolar increments each month.

The following message can then be posted on the LL blog ...

To our lovely SL residents. <---- see smiley face

Beginning next month we will begin lowering all future sim prices by $25 dollars. Each month following, we will continue to lower sim prices by additional $25 dollar increments until such time as we reach our target sim price of $1000 several years later. If at that time, market research determines that the ongoing market price for sims charged by our competitors is $200 dollars per sim, we will send a gridwide notice to the remaining three of you advising you that, first of all we love you very much, but unfortunately (*sniff sniff* /cry) we "may" have to continue to lower sim prices by $25 for a few additional years until such time that our sim prices reflect the prices currently being charged by our competitors. We sincerely hope that the two of you will remain with us while we make these adjustments.

We Love you so much, xxxooo

LL management
Skid Row
DooDooForBrains, Timbuktu 12354

tough......shit happens! Call the break down service! The likelihodd is that they've already purchase a breakdown cover policy at the time of Insurance renewal.....especially if its a older vehicle.