A friend by any other name...

I would owe them an explanation if they're.. umm.. involved and no doubt it will be highly offensive.. that's the fun part.



Very, very true. It's really very difficult at times to get away, or even buy yourself some breathing room when SO many are of the "need tons of social interaction" type. This is one of the reasons why I dont add people to my friends list until I know them a bit. It can be overwhelming for you in accomodating their social needs, IF you make yourself available for the job every time they need it.



Lie to them.
No, seriously.. When talking to them about other stuff, work in a little ficticious line about how you missed something you would've liked to have not missed (message, object sent, group invite, etc..) because there was so much message/popup stuff going on when you logged in..so you turboclicked to get rid of it all and accidentally lost it. Then say that kind of stuff gets to you at times and leave it at that. Anyone short of a drooling monitor-licker should get it, without feeling hurt or singled out.


As for the OP, I always take everyone I meet at face value. I avoid feeling like the victim in cases like this by realizing that some people don't feel totally comfortable in their social relationships unless they do have some sort of advantage. Also that they may not have intended any true ill will by doing that, but were merely migrating to the comfort zone they function best in.. we all do that to some extent. Of course I'd give them the "WTH?" act to find out why, but probably not because I'd take it as some sort of offensive betrayal. The fact they did come clean about it says a lot.

Actually I agree with you Clarissa....I'm pretty much a loner by nature too.....not entirely an introvert....but I prefer my space and independence. This is true IRL and in SL....but I do 'understand' that SL is a social venue, and I try to respect others....and honestly, I dn't have high expectations in-world.....more because I realise that everyone has a different agenda. Being a bit selfish with my own time (it is my computer and my money I'm investing in L's to create what I want out of it, dam it LOL) I don't really take too much offense at what ever anyone else is doing with their time. I've never had anyone just drop in on me tho......I suppose if I was truly in a loner mood....I'd simply find a reason to log off or find some project to work on and let them know it's not a good time for me. I've had to work a bit on the concept of boundaries......and I've discovered that I actually keep MORE friends be being clear and honest about my own boundaries. I'd rather say no when I mean no....then build up resentments that ruin friendships later on. If a person can't handle that....then they aren't proving themselves to be very good friend material anyway.

I have used a couple of alts to keep very different in game businesses seprate in the past. I still have the alts even though the businesses were closed years ago.

I have another alt that only family knows about that is the one I log in on when I want to do serious building or scripting, His friends list is family only and he is a member of 0 groups LOL. Peace at last!

Having just passed my 5th SL Rezday I find I seriously wish I could make a new toon and start over like I had never seen SL before. Re-experience the wonder of it all. Unfortunately that is not possible...the human behind the alt flat knows too much to ever have that wonderful awe inspiring time again.

I've lost stuff in the login popup storm enough times myself that I reckon this is probably not a lie for most people.

Or do you mean tell them it happened right then?

(Hi Rizzy. It wasn't me, I swear!)

I get accused of being people's alts all the time, but I would never do that. I think it's weird and possibly the sign of a few nuts loose upstairs to trick friends into thinking you are two separate people. I've had this happen to me a few times, but only with casual acquaintances and not anyone I knew/trusted real well.

Most people do not realize that no matter how good they are at acting, they have a "fist" which is a dead giveaway for anyone who's paying attention.

Oh no.. I mean as a casual tidbit you throw in well after login time, during regular old BS chat. There are tons of people who, no matter how nice and secure they are, just cant handle thinking they might've been imposing without knowing it. Throwing this out in a non distinct way like that lets them become aware of the problem without feeling like you're calling them on it, or thinking you feel they were responsible for it. They WILL feel those things if you just let them know it's problem and ask them not to do it any more.

I would never do such a thing. It's creepy. I would hope that no one would do that to me.

Not to speak for anyone else, but is it possible your friend dropped the ball or didn't know how to bring the topic up or didn't get a chance to or was testing the waters as an alt and didn't know what s/he was doing and so didn't bring it up the first time you met? Then the next time, was afraid you'd feel deceived and it was even harder to bring it up and so on...

Or perhaps they thought they were going to make a break with the old them and it turned out to be harder than they expected?

Just throwing out the possibility that it might be inexperience or uncertainty rather than head games that made them keep the new identity under wraps for a while.

My alts tend to be reclusive and nearly friendless except for 'family'. My male alt holds down groups with me and explores when I don't want to be hassled and occasionally checks out what's available on the men's fashion scene. My female alt mostly shops and does treasure hunts. I never really tried to conceal that I have alts, but I never quite felt comfortable announcing their identities either. They usually don't go places I go or talk to people I know unless we meet in passing.

I feel a bit awkward, though, because my female alt joined the Forum Cartel group inworld at at time when I thought I might just let this account drift away and actually became more of a presence there than this account. I do not think both she and Nic were close enough to anyone personally that they would feel deceived, but if you do, I apologize. She is mostly inactive right now, but you never know, so... Sorcha Lovenkraft is the other face of Nic Writer.

Thanks for the different perspectives everyone, it's interesting to see it from another angle. It turns out it was more of what Nic said, sort of a snowball thing. Definitely not a mind game thing. But, they know now that it is something that I really don't like, so they won't do it again.

I am a die hard optimist, so I won't dwell on all the predictions of doom and gloom from some of you.

So many people are quick to declare their lack of deep involvement in SL and where their barriers are, and how seriously they don't take SL. It is after all JUST A GAME, right?

Nic's post is very sensible. What I was trying to stress in my post yesterday is that feelings can be hurt unintentionally, and that I understood Rizzy's feeling of discomfort even if her friend never intended it.

Not all uses of alts are intentionally deceptive. And sometimes you can get caught with your alt showing and not know just what to do about it.

This is what happened to me when I began the transition to my alt, Carter, who is now the principal account I use in world. While on Carter, I met a woman who was a landscape designer and who offered to rebuild my main's cafe for me. During the renovation we spent a lot of time together at the cafe. But I did so as Carter, because that was the avatar the designer knew best, and because I was more comfortable interacting with the designer in that avatar.

So a lot of people came by the cafe during that renovation who had known me as Madhu. They saw Carter standing there working with the designer and had no idea I was the same person. And at that time (about 6 months ago) I hadn't decided how I was going to divide up my SL, if Carter would show herself at the cafe at all after the renovation was done. So I generally decided not to reveal myself - not to be deceptive, but just so that I could stay focused on the renovation without having to explain why I was in a different form.

On the other hand, the more time I spent as Carter, the more I wanted my friends to know, so I started being open about it in my social circles and on this forum and SLU. And so people would land at the cafe and some of them would know Carter was Madhu, while others would not. And it just got very difficult for me to keep track of who knew and who didn't. I am sure I inadvertently hurt some feelings during this time.

Now that Carter has taken over completely I try to be as up front as possible. Both Carter and Madhu's profiles state that we are the same person. Any time anyone who knows Madhu seems not to recognize Carter, I just blurt out "hey, in case you didn't know, I'm Madhu." Since our worlds overlap so - same social circles, same cafe - it's essential to me that I do this, to avoid unintentionally deceiving anyone who might feel bad about it.

So that's just a story of an alt who took over for a main gradually, not setting out to deceive, but probably accidentally stepping on a toe or two along the way, for which I'm very sorry.

So is real life.

Pep (The rules are mainly unwritten though! )

What gets to me about posts like the ones you refer to is not the fact that there are folks who declare their lack of involvement in SL. To some people it maybe is just a game, and they manage not to develop emotional connections or take what happens in world with any kind of seriousness.

What irks me is the lack of empathy those folks tend to show. If it's just a game to them, it must be just a game to everyone else, and so they justify both disregarding the consequences of their actions and belittle people who approach SL differently from how they do.

SL is incredibly rich and varied and for any person to presume that everyone makes of it - or should make of it - just exactly what that person makes of it is narcissistic and obnoxious at the very least. It would be nice if some of the "it's just a GAME" crowd would show a little compassion from time to time for those of us who are capable of actually caring for and about the other people (yes, people) that we meet in this world.

Again - I think that some of you confuse "playing the game" with "playing mind games."

When you "play the game" in either life....you can have empathy, you can care deeply for people, you can become emotionally attached. All that is part of the game in either life. I'm a wee bit offended at your statement about the "playing the game" crowd....because I show compassion toward people, and you have stereotyped "a crowd" incorrectly.

For me....(and I'll just speak for me)......the playing the game part....is that it is a give and take between people. It is a "if I exhibit this type of behavior...then this will be the outcome." If I exhibit this type of behavior it will be Win/Win.....if I exhibit another type of behavior, it will be Win/Lose.

If I were playing a "game" of tennis....if I serve a particular way to one person....this will be the outcome. If I serve a particular way to another person.....it will be a different outcome. I learned that by playing the game. I adjust my serve technique to each person.

It's also being "in touch with Reality" and knowing that he/she on the other end is possibly experimenting with me in a game venue.....so I take care of my own feelings and soul, and control the outcomes, the best I can. I do not stomp on hearts while doing so.

Now you will say that trying different types of behavior is not being true to yourself, and being fake, and experimenting with others' feelings. Wrong. We all try different types of behavior every day to achieve different outcomes. Others are trying different types of behaviors on us. That's Fair.

I doubt that I explained it effectively.....and I'm sorry that you can't understand that some of us who are aware this venue is a game, are generally decent caring people. That's unfortunate.

I think that if you cannot accept the fact that this is a game.....you're going to set yourself up for a lot of heartbreak and grief, and cause a lot of stress toward others as well.

Mickey, I think what you have done is extended a game metaphor to both RL and SL.

Whether I accept that metaphor or not, what's salient is that you seem to treat relationships in SL the same as you treat relationships in RL. That is what matters. In that model, if you are a compassionate person in RL, you will be one in SL. And if you are a douchebag in RL, you'll be one in SL as well.

What I was complaining against - and I now see this wasn't clear - is people who insist that SL is "only a game" in apposition to RL, and who therefore think people who get emotionally invested in others - as friends, lovers, neighbors, whatever - are somehow deficient or stupid.

It doesn't sound from your post like your "game" philosophy treats SL relationships different from RL ones, and that was the distinction I was trying to make. I don't care for the metaphor - I happen not to agree that life - either life - is a game, and I find the metaphor singularly inapt. But you're wrong to conclude that because I don't accept your philosophy that life as a game I'm setting myself up for pain or heartbreak. I could turn it around and say if you "only" see life as a series of calculated moves game you may be missing out on the richness of true intimacy, but that would be just as facile a presumption.

Thank you for clarifying.

But I think that even those who come in to play the game for a few hours, and decide not to get emotionally attached.....and decide to turn the computer off, and forget about it for the rest of the night.....are still good people. Many of my friends are like that. They do not hurt me in that process. We have a blast while they are online.....and we can both turn the computer off, and leave it.

Now....they might hurt another person in the process of doing that....because that person thought that my friend was thinking about them all night in RL....and all day the next day. But that doesn't make my friend a bad person.....and they did not intentionally hurt a person. It was the other person's responsibility to not get hurt....it was not my friend's responsibility. They simply ran across a person that is not making a distinction between a virtual world and a real world.

I just want it to be clear.....that some of those people who treat this as a game....and a virtual world....and log off after a few hours to go about their real lives, without worrying about what is going on inside that virtual world for the rest of the day.....are not bad people. To assume that they are....is unfortunate and unfair.



Actually....I think that the opposite is true. I don't "calculate" at all. It's a game....you make it fun.....you roll the dice.....you don't overanalyze so-and-so's motives.....you don't question their behaviors....you take it for what it is.....go with the flow.....and you're able to have much more true intimacy, without all the stresses.

It's both of their responsibilities. Both people are responsible for communicating their intent so the other knows they are on the same page.

Unintentional hurts do happen. My goodness, how many times have I said that on this thread? But they happen a lot less when people exercise empathy. Anyone who says "LOL it's just a game" should pause for a moment and put themselves in the shoes of the other. When you stop and think, "wow, that guy might be taking this more seriously than I am, I'd better make clear where I'm coming from here" you can go a long way toward mitigating the chance for unintentional hurt.

"But LOL, it's just a game, that sounds like so much work! Why can't I just have my fun and blame the other person for not knowing that I never meant all that stupid stuff I said! LOL, it's just a game!"

That's the attitude I'm talking about. I didn't say, by the way, that everyone who does this is ZOMG A BAD PERSON. We all have moments of selfishness and inconsiderateness. Hell, even I do. It's the conduct that's a problem - it's unempathetic, and it can be selfish and downright cruel.




That's why I said it would be facile for me to dismiss your philosophy this way. Your judgment of who has "much more" true intimacy is just as facile.

That view applies just as much to those who believe that it is not a game and care too much, as those who know that it *is* a game and treat it as such - but the cynical realists don't whinge on about how it *should* be, at length in the forums.

Pep (Just like real life, it's the naive, sensitive optimists that get hurt. )

Yeah; you're probably right about that. Even knowing that you're probably right, I will still choose every time to be that 'naive, sensitive optimist'. I just like me better that way, even if it invites contempt from other more intelligent, cynical types. *I* am the one who has to look in that mirror every day and not be ashamed of the person that I am, to know that I have tried my best every day, to 'do no harm'. So negative opinions about me (the royal me, not only me personally) are going to roll off my back, if the reason for those opinions is that I try to be kind and try not to hurt someone. Those opinions are ok, and I accept anyone's right to have them. They just don't impact me.

It's ok....we just have different philosophies. I don't feel that I am responsible for how another person "feels"....I just think that I have no control over that, regardless of what care and attention I give them. I also don't think that the other person is responsible for how I feel. That is my responsibility alone. That doesn't mean that either party is not being kind or empathetic or caring.

I have this discussion with people here all the time. It usually comes up when we talk about SL relationships. If I talk of some very close relationships that I've had in the past, and that they ended....the person that I am talking to says "oh, I am so sorry....you must have been very hurt."

Maybe for a few days But I control if I want to take that back to my day in RL, and let it mess up a Real Day. I no longer do that. I don't take it back to RL. And I no longer get hurt. When it's over....it's over....it was fun....it had a time and place.....the other person was not a bad person (or I never would have clicked with them).....they simply had other things to tend to (preferably RL - which is another reason that I clicked with them - they chose that over SL)....I have great memories and learned a few things. You can walk away with that....or you can walk away hurt and angry. Your choice. Your responsibility. Not theirs.

... and often it's the self-proclaimed "cynical realists" who hurt them.

For myself, I value sensitivity over cynicism, and I am not naive. I just see far too many people - in both lives - being narcissistic jerks and proudly labeling it "cynicism."

At any rate, your apposition of "cynical realists" with "naive, sensitive optimists" is inapt at best. To the contrary; those who acknowledge the reality of the people on the other side of the screen may be more properly viewed as the realists here, in contrast with the solipsistic sort who think nothing they do matters because it's all just a great big game. One's actions have consequences whether or not they are acknowledged. It's hardly a more realist and less idealistic perspective to be aware of that fact!

By the way, if no one ever argued for the "it's just a game" perspective, no one would ever need to present the other perspective. This is hardly a one-sided discussion at length; there is equal contribution from both sides.