What are Ginko Bonds worth?

Bondholders get hurt one way or the other, the way I see it. He would either get a huge discount, or you lose the majority of the value of your investment in the market among the sharks. The only winner? Nick, who gets to skate off with your money so he can put it into his porn site.

Better be some good porn!

pissed off doesnt even start to explain how we all fill ginko ripped us all off and nothing we can do about it. I lost 26 k to them and going to have to sell my land loose my store because I dont have the money I worked a year to get. now we have some stupid worthless bonds not worth diddly. Its ok for for them to steal our money because its not the realworld even thou people put time and money into saving.

While I'm not too down with Nick's methods and ethics...you were also pretty silly to have put L$26k into someone else's pocket...especially with how little tangible information this guy has given out over his "career".

The moral of the story: do some research and don't be gullible.

The OP mentions a scenario with lawsuits pending. Thats not going to happen. Which lawyer is going to stand up in court and say my client was defrauded of virtual money.

Before this happens it must be determined (by law, not forum debate) what if anything the $L is worth.

Please no theories on the value of the $L. This thread is not about that.

Boy, did you get THAT all wrong...

1) YOU cannot be "harmed" at all. You're just another nameless, faceless virtual person on the intarwebs. Tomorrow, you could bail, and that would be the end of any "harm" you will ever know from all this, most likely.
2) It IS helping them, or is at least an attempt to help them. Without the ban, you "sell" a bunch of worthless virtual paper for L$1 a sheet, with the only promise to pay some small amount of interest to keep them active, and you essentially can buy them right back for far less than their face value. WITH the ban, you can't simply use the bond issue to get out of a large majority of your debt.
3) We are used to businesspeople with no humility nor conscience who will stop at nothing to protect themselves and their interests at the expense of their customers'. It would be nice, for once, to think "gee, this guy is killing himself to make good on his promises and correct his mistakes instead of continuing to try and screw over his customers and making more mistakes". The only good thing you have going for you so far is the fact that you are still here; the only question in my mind (I can't speak for others) is who your continued presence benefits most: you or your customers. I honestly don't know, and can't know until the facts are revealed. However, if I had to venture a guess based on everything that has transpired, I would lean towards the former.

Which lawyer is going to stand up in court and say "the defendant copied and sold my client's sex bed on a computer game"? Oh wait...



Well if you look at how money works, L$ is no different than getting coins at an arcade and being able to cash the left over ones out afterwards. Like game tolkens, L$ is worthless to any other REAL company (i.e. not SL-based companies). It's not too hard to figure out with logic and reason!



What is it about, then, o Thread Tamer?

hrm if gambling wasn't banned in sl I would propose a pool for "flee date"

but we can still guess none-the-less

I tried to pull out money when all this started with the gambling being banned nick there used it as a good excuse to ripp everyone off.
as for checking into ginko i read and asked alot of questions before i satrted putting money in his pocket. good scam there nick hope your very proud of yourself yes we are all cartoons in sl but real people and you have no morals at all and you sleep great at night know you have screwed so many people. wonder if you planned this lil plot when ginko was first opened or it just came to you one night. gotta give you credit its a great scam. I wont whine about it anymore wont do any good.he only reason why he put it in bonds so he can make even more off our money and cover up that he stole it all. 26k is a loss but im sure more people have more than that gone.If i wanted bonds in sl I would of got them myself worthless. So if sl can ban gambling whats the stock market and i guess ginko was a big slot machine and we all lost our asses playing. And yes pretty silly for trusting dumb me and all teh otehr people that trusted him and his business.

You have my sympathy Destini.

Reguardless of how dumb investing in Ginko may have been - it does not diminish the fact that Nick P is a crook.

Yeah, don't take anonymous peoples' word for it...whatever it is.

this WSE is a regulated body or just another SL'er playing at it ?

The latter.

Sorry I must have missed that one. Anyway that would be to do with intellectual property rights.





I just think that the RL value of the $L needs to be dedetermined by a court of law, to see if any law has been broken by Ginko.






This thread seems to be about how much virtual money should be traded for virtual stock bonds. Not RL value

thought so ty

Don't know how often the WSE website is updated, but it still shows Nic owning some 34.8% of HCL, which in turn owns WSE. Luke has the second-largest holdings, at 21.9%. But again, that could all be out of date.

I'm of two minds about the WSE's decision not to permit below-par buy-back of GPBs. On the one hand, any potential buyer could raise the prices in the market, so precluding one particular buyer might not be in the best interest of bondholders. On the other hand, it's reassuring to see WSE set policy that (one supposes) isn't the result of a conflict of interest between its owners and the issuers of bonds listed on that exchange. (Yes, there's an obvious Conspiracy Theory that could "explain" the policy in quite the opposite way, but at least for the nonce I give Luke the benefit of that rather far-fetched doubt.)

But practically... would Nic actually ever have bought any of the bonds at market value? Now we'll never know--which invokes a variant of Colette's Scenario C, where Nic now has WSE to blame for any future misfortune he may devise for holders of GPBs.

How likely is it someone with a 34% ownership of WSE's parent company is powerless to influence policy at WSE.



This one is as funny as the "hacker thief" who robbed the WSE and somehow also won the Ginko Lottery.

The original question was what are the bonds worth....

- If you can convert the bonds to cash right now - they are worth that amount of cash now
- If you cannot convert the bonds to cash right now, they are worthless now
- If you can convert the bonds into cash at a future time, they are worthless now and worth the amount you get for them at that future time, if, AND ONLY IF, they are made convertable at a future time. The gamble is whether you can convert your "investment" into cash before the money runs out.

As far as I am aware financial services including both banks and investment markets in SL are at best PURELY ROLEPLAY as the agreements involved are not regulated by anyone at all.

At worst, I would suggest that any "financial business" that *promises* to pay "investors" interest, where the sole income for that business comes from future investors, is quite simply a pyramid scheme - a role played pyramid scheme.

The best finanical "services" in SL will always make it clear that you could (or more probably will) lose part or all of your investment. The bad ones don't tell you this at all.

MORAL OF THE STORY:
"To lose one investment could be regarded as misfortune, to lose two investments is carelessness"

Hmmm Colette you are forgetting the "Third Party" who together with Luke can outvote Nicholas

It doesnt work that way. When you own THAT much of a company they WILL compromise with you in some way.

My guess is it was all intentional.

Or else they all knew friend/alt would take care of the little face saving restriction.

Not so sure love

(PS its just occured to me, I am UK english, when we say love its just an expression not disrespectful or anthing more)

I do not want to say anything more about the "third party" HCL shareholder on a public BB unless or until things become more clear. That would not be fair.

Regards

John

hehe its okay.

I wonder about the ENITRE WSE/GINKO fiasco though.

I still find the whole theft/lottery winner thing totally beyond plausible odds considering the timing.

"WOW we took a beating on this gambling stuff what are we going to tell people?"

*suddenly a theif robs WSE, and wins the Ginko Lottery*


Theres no way to know what is going on behind the scenes becuase its too easy for them to lie about what really happend.

The stockholders in WSE companys don't have voting rights so a CEO doesn't actually have to own any of his own stock.

Hi Rudolph,

My original post is a response to a specific question I was asked: how much do I think GPB bonds are worth, other than ones ability to sell them to someone else.

Obviously, at any given moment in time, that is what they are in fact worth.

Yeah, we can find a conspiracy anywhere if we look hard enough.

In reality, I've met Luke (in SL) and talked with him many times when he was starting up the WSE. He's an honest guy that has a decent business head on him. He is a tad naive...but that was most likely due to his n00bness to SL.

I don't doubt that what the WSE is doing is on the up and up. Nick doesn't own enough stock to sway policy...especially when he's the iceberg and everyone else in HCL is on the Titanic afterwards. They're all gonna want to swim away from him!