Large SL Bank update
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Lord Steadham
Registered user
Join date: 26 Mar 2007
Posts: 312
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08-05-2007 22:00
From: Uvas Umarov Oh my goodness, ginko is getting hit hard today. My estimate of it losing half its deposits in two weeks considering the queue restraints seems to be right on the mark. It looks like he will still have about 150 thousand US to play with as term deposits, tho. Yet optimism never dies---313 new accounts this week  Two of those were people from this forum testing out the system by depositing L$1 apiece. Hope the other 311 put in more than that, for the existing customers' sake. |
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Colette Meiji
Registered User
Join date: 25 Mar 2005
Posts: 15,556
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08-06-2007 07:41
From: Lord Steadham Two of those were people from this forum testing out the system by depositing L$1 apiece. Hope the other 311 put in more than that, for the existing customers' sake. Except - that is the very definition of a Ponzi. If the "bank" needs a constant supply of new depositors to survive, rather than surviving on its investments. Its a Ponzi. The Only reason it should need new deposits is so that it doesnt have to sell off Investments before they gain marketability/liquidity/start paying returns. |
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3Ring Binder
always smile
Join date: 8 Mar 2007
Posts: 15,028
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08-06-2007 07:56
From: Justin Slade Oh where oh where did all the campers go...I'm opening a food stamp office hehe funny you should say that. last night when roaming about, i found a camping place most of the campers (about 20) were part of a group that says "I am on welfare". they all had join dates of 7/26 - present. i wonder where they are saving their money. 
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Uvas Umarov
Phone Weasel Advocate
Join date: 8 Feb 2007
Posts: 622
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08-06-2007 08:08
Ginko Update!
Deposits Still Dropping Quickly!!!!
Full Story At Six O'clock.
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"On the other hand, if you are convinced that I spent all the money on a new sports car, then getting even 2.5% instead of 0% back would be quite a deal, wouldn't it?" ---ginko bank owner on his financial dealings
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Raymond Figtree
Gone, avi, gone
Join date: 17 May 2006
Posts: 6,256
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08-06-2007 08:43
From: Uvas Umarov Ginko Update!
Deposits Still Dropping Quickly!!!!
Full Story At Six O'clock. This deserves its own thread! 
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Wilhelm Neumann
Runs with Crayons
Join date: 20 Apr 2006
Posts: 2,204
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08-06-2007 09:34
the 7 stages of umm ginko
It appears that ginko customers have moved from the denail stage as in "no its not any kind of scam" etc
to depression - omg my money is gone ..
to the acceptance stage and "yes its illegal but if we dont shut up someone is gonna call the feds and if they do that ginko will be shut down and loose our money so every hush up and hope he comes through with our porta ponzi money before some "pompous self righteous do gooder" goes and calls the feds"!
my how things change ...
/shrug
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SqueezeOne Pow
World Changer
Join date: 21 Dec 2005
Posts: 1,437
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08-06-2007 10:28
From: Raymond Figtree All night long I prayed for more Ginko threads on this forum. Thank God for small miracles. hehe...now if only new information had come out about the owners of Ginko that they were also nazi ageplayers that are suspected of exchanging terrorist information via voice chat. That would make for an interesting week on the forums!
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"Violence is Art by another means"
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John Horner
Registered User
Join date: 27 Jun 2006
Posts: 626
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08-06-2007 10:31
Well I put TWO lindens in to test withdrawals, despite the wailings of my avatar who said a) he would never see his Lindens again and b) why did I not just burn it if I insisted he do things like this.........
More seriously folks there is a queue of nearly $L37 million Lindens seeking the door with around 3,200 account holders at present. That is about 1/3rd of Ginkos so called total standard deposits and account holders. I personally met a guy who said he had $L6 million lindens deposited..........
This is gone far beyond game/play/game trading money, and I think Linden Labs needs to step in and make some type of statement AND set out some type of future regulation to ensure this never happens again.
If Entropia can sell banking licences to (She Who Must Not Be Named) for $60,000 US dollars and set out some rules and guidelines, then I am sure Linden Labs could devise some similar system to ensure ordinary folk don't get burned
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Colette Meiji
Registered User
Join date: 25 Mar 2005
Posts: 15,556
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08-06-2007 10:40
From: John Horner Well I put TWO lindens in to test withdrawals, despite the wailings of my avatar who said a) he would never see his Lindens again and b) why did I not just burn it if I insisted he do things like this.........
More seriously folks there is a queue of nearly $L37 million Lindens seeking the door with around 3,200 account holders at present. That is about 1/3rd of Ginkos so called total standard deposits and account holders. I personally met a guy who said he had $L6 million lindens deposited..........
This is gone far beyond game/play/game trading money, and I think Linden Labs needs to step in and make some type of statement AND set out some type of future regulation to ensure this never happens again.
If Entropia can sell banking licences to (She Who Must Not Be Named) for $60,000 US dollars and set out some rules and guidelines, then I am sure Linden Labs could devise some similar system to ensure ordinary folk don't get burned Considering the problems with regulations: Getting involved in Resident's disputes, unenforcable contracts, possible legal battles, fraud, etc. The only Regulation I could see Linden Lab making is BANNING investment schemes involving the L$. |
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Adz Childs
Artificial Boy
Join date: 6 Apr 2006
Posts: 865
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08-06-2007 11:14
From: John Horner ...This is gone far beyond game/play/game trading money, and I think Linden Labs needs to step in and make some type of statement AND set out some type of future regulation to ensure this never happens again. LL does have an official policy regarding resident-run "banks" It took me forever to find it... it was posted to this forum in 2005. The category has since been closed, but it still appears in search archives. HOWEVER, the link simply takes you to the knowledge base now. I KNOW there used to be an official policy here. Search for this post in the forum archives. Policy On Resident-Run L$ Financial Services And Securities Ginsu Linden 11-17-2005 04:26 PM by Ginsu Linden Go to last post 0 4,126 Knowledge Base I read it long ago, within a few months of first joining SL in 2006. I only vaguely recall what it said. Someone else can try to find it in the knowledge base, if they want. I don't feel like it at the moment. However, I believe i have found the Google-cache of it. I'd post the link but it would screw up the page margins and you can't click on it anyway. Here, I'll just copy-paste. From: 11-17-2005 Policy On Resident-Run L$ Financial Services And Securities From Ginsu Linden:
Linden Lab has noted the appearance of resident enterprises that are similar to investment funds, stock offerings, and banking services. We applaud the continued innovation and entrepreneurship of our community, and we think that many of these services can provide great benefits to Second Life. Because some of these matters seem similar to real-world activities that are heavily regulated, we are often asked what Linden Lab can do to ensure that the services operate as promised and in compliance with applicable laws. As with any resident-run enterprise, please keep in mind that Linden Lab does not own, operate or insure these services. As with any transaction among residents, Linden Lab has limited responsibility and ability to resolve disputes.
Our Roman friends used to say, Caveat Emptor. That's certainly a good principle to keep in mind. It's also good to remember that Second Life is based on creativity and innovation, and community and collective action. We hope that educated skepticism and buyer demand will lead to trusted institutions that can provide many of the benefits of a regulated system.
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http://slnamewatch.com — Second Life Last Name Tracking — Email Alerts — Famous People Lookup — http://adz.secondlifekid.com/ — Artificial Boy — Personal Blog From: Tofu Linden Hmm, there's nothing really helpful there, but thanks for pasting.
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Cristalle Karami
Lady of the House
Join date: 4 Dec 2006
Posts: 6,222
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08-06-2007 11:30
From: Adz Childs LL does have an official policy regarding resident-run "banks" It took me forever to find it... it was posted to this forum in 2005. The category has since been closed, but it still appears in search archives. HOWEVER, the link simply takes you to the knowledge base now. I KNOW there used to be an official policy here.
Search for this post in the forum archives.
Policy On Resident-Run L$ Financial Services And Securities
Ginsu Linden
11-17-2005 04:26 PM
by Ginsu Linden Go to last post
0 4,126 Knowledge Base
I read it long ago, within a few months of first joining SL in 2006. I only vaguely recall what it said. Someone else can try to find it in the knowledge base, if they want. I don't feel like it at the moment. However, I believe i have found the Google-cache of it.
I'd post the link but it would screw up the page margins and you can't click on it anyway. Here, I'll just copy-paste. Translation: You're Screwed. |
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John Horner
Registered User
Join date: 27 Jun 2006
Posts: 626
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08-06-2007 11:39
From: Adz Childs LL does have an official policy regarding resident-run "banks" It took me forever to find it... it was posted to this forum in 2005. The category has since been closed, but it still appears in search archives. HOWEVER, the link simply takes you to the knowledge base now. I KNOW there used to be an official policy here.
Search for this post in the forum archives.
Policy On Resident-Run L$ Financial Services And Securities
Ginsu Linden
11-17-2005 04:26 PM
by Ginsu Linden Go to last post
0 4,126 Knowledge Base
I read it long ago, within a few months of first joining SL in 2006. I only vaguely recall what it said. Someone else can try to find it in the knowledge base, if they want. I don't feel like it at the moment. However, I believe i have found the Google-cache of it.
I'd post the link but it would screw up the page margins and you can't click on it anyway. Here, I'll just copy-paste. Well that clears one thing up for all Ginko clients. Like gambling it would seem their only recourse is FBI action of some kind. In fact it is better than nothing because the statement clearly states its not a "game" related activity and therefore falls within first life law (ditto gambling) |
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Zack Massiel
I am slowly gooING crazy.
Join date: 27 Oct 2005
Posts: 110
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08-06-2007 12:13
From: John Horner Well that clears one thing up for all Ginko clients. Like gambling it would seem their only recourse is FBI action of some kind.
In fact it is better than nothing because the statement clearly states its not a "game" related activity and therefore falls within first life law (ditto gambling) FBI wont do anything. Unless you can prove it's a ponzi scheme without a doubt.
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Lexxi Gynoid
#'s 86000, 97800
Join date: 6 Aug 2007
Posts: 3,732
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08-06-2007 12:17
From: Zack Massiel
Location: Somewhere where little red things poke me in the butt with pitchforks. That sounds neat. Is that found in SL? I am always on the look-out for neat things to see in SL.
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Ciaran Laval
Mostly Harmless
Join date: 11 Mar 2007
Posts: 7,951
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08-06-2007 12:21
From: John Horner
This is gone far beyond game/play/game trading money, and I think Linden Labs needs to step in and make some type of statement AND set out some type of future regulation to ensure this never happens again.
Linden Lab can't get involved in this. They provide the platform, we provide the content. If they get involved then they are taking economic responsibility and that is one hell of a big can of worms to be opening. |
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Zack Massiel
I am slowly gooING crazy.
Join date: 27 Oct 2005
Posts: 110
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08-06-2007 12:25
From: Lexxi Gynoid That sounds neat. Is that found in SL? I am always on the look-out for neat things to see in SL. If i found a place that pokes me in the butt with pitchforks in SL i wouldn't visit since i already deal with that
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From: Message of the Day
Did you know teenage punks make the best prison bitches? Crash the grid to find out more!
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Lexxi Gynoid
#'s 86000, 97800
Join date: 6 Aug 2007
Posts: 3,732
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08-06-2007 12:29
From: Zack Massiel If i found a place that pokes me in the butt with pitchforks in SL i wouldn't visit since i already deal with that Oh darn. Ok then. Well if you do see a place like that in SL . . . 
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Wilhelm Neumann
Runs with Crayons
Join date: 20 Apr 2006
Posts: 2,204
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actualy this one made me laugh
08-06-2007 14:25
Nicholas Portocarrero: The deal was, you loan me some money. I'll pay you interest and do my best to pay you back. I cannot pay 25% of everything back all at once. So the loan might need to be restructured, so that it is no longer in the form of an account balance. Accountholders are not shareholders and no disclosure agreement was.. agreed to. taken from a second life herald interview. http://www.secondlifeherald.com/slh/2007/08/ginko-financial.html |
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SqueezeOne Pow
World Changer
Join date: 21 Dec 2005
Posts: 1,437
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08-06-2007 14:43
From: Wilhelm Neumann Nicholas Portocarrero: The deal was, you loan me some money. I'll pay you interest and do my best to pay you back. I cannot pay 25% of everything back all at once. So the loan might need to be restructured, so that it is no longer in the form of an account balance. Accountholders are not shareholders and no disclosure agreement was.. agreed to. taken from a second life herald interview. http://www.secondlifeherald.com/slh/2007/08/ginko-financial.html/me wonders how "telling you one thing to get your money then changing the rules around after the fact to make it easier on them" isn't a scam. If I were silly enough to get caught in this I'd file an AR for fraud...after I kicked my own ass for falling for it.
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Semper Fly
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"Violence is Art by another means"
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John Horner
Registered User
Join date: 27 Jun 2006
Posts: 626
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08-06-2007 15:09
http://www.secondlifeherald.com/slh/2007/08/ginko-financial.htmlPeople need to read this link and the comments afterwards. Please. And spread the word to as many Ginko deposit holders they can. On Friday I thought there was a small chance Ginko could be saved, by a new management team, a debt write down, (or injection of capital) (which amount to the same dilution of equity for account holders) and some astute first and second life financial decisions, with much more sustainable ongoing interest rates I now see from the entire interview notes it is at the very best, a debt recovery position over a longer period of time, and at worst potentially illegal. No company or individual can or should continue to trade if they are insolvent. The ongoing interest will compound the position $L 200 million in liabilities which is around $740,000 US dollars and by Ginkos own admission no real substantial or at least a difficult position with any assets and no disclosure of ongoing investments other than that within SL. Money like this is not a trading game
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Raudf Fox
(ra-ow-th)
Join date: 25 Feb 2005
Posts: 5,119
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08-06-2007 15:28
From: SqueezeOne Pow /me wonders how "telling you one thing to get your money then changing the rules around after the fact to make it easier on them" isn't a scam.
If I were silly enough to get caught in this I'd file an AR for fraud...after I kicked my own ass for falling for it. Would the term, "Bait and Switch," apply here? Sadly, I don't think the Lindens care much at this point to do anything about it.. because if they did, they'd surely have done it by now? Maybe? I did some research a while back and decided then not to invest with Ginko. No where on the website for Ginko is/was there a listing of any sort of credentials, nor any sort of transparency of numbers for me to at least go "oooh, shiney" at. One thing that did occur to me.. if this is a debt, well, all debts have a repayment schedule. Nick needs to set his up now.
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Destiny Niles
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Join date: 23 Aug 2006
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08-06-2007 15:32
From: John Horner ... then I am sure Linden Labs could devise some similar system to ensure ordinary folk don't get burned They have. It's called 'common sense'. |
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SqueezeOne Pow
World Changer
Join date: 21 Dec 2005
Posts: 1,437
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08-06-2007 15:40
From: Raudf Fox Sadly, I don't think the Lindens care much at this point to do anything about it.. because if they did, they'd surely have done it by now? Maybe? Well on one hand they supposedly take fraud seriously so if enough people bring it to their attention (if LL doesn't already know about it) then they might look. On the other hand they could be looking at it as a "large scale bank simulation" that all these people participated in and would treat it the same as "he said no tag backs!" in a game of sim tag...hey that's a cool idea for a game! Either way it's not like an AR costs money to file!
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"Violence is Art by another means"
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Raudf Fox
(ra-ow-th)
Join date: 25 Feb 2005
Posts: 5,119
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08-06-2007 16:07
From: SqueezeOne Pow Either way it's not like an AR costs money to file! Very true and if enough affected people do AR this, they might actually look at the potential lost money as, "Oh, crap..." and do something about it. My fear is that it will take someone getting a lawyer and threatening to implicate Linden Lab along with the 'bank,' since Linden Lab has done nothing to prevent this, even with people ARing it as potential/existing fraud. It is a dispute between one person and many, many individuals.. which should scream fraud, right?
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SqueezeOne Pow
World Changer
Join date: 21 Dec 2005
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08-06-2007 16:17
From: Raudf Fox ...since Linden Lab has done nothing to prevent this, even with people ARing it as potential/existing fraud. I agree with what you're saying overall in your post but this part stuck out to me and made me look at this situation from a different angle. Howcome we want LL to leave us alone with issues such as the "broadly offensive" issue yet want them to step in and regulate when it comes to a pretend bank that we all should have known would be a risk in one way or another? We want our hands held by the same people we are constantly complaining about and criticize for various business decisions they make...unless it's something we don't like then we criticize and complain. Supwifdat?! This is probably exactly why they stay vague and try not to make any assertions about their role beyond advertisement and basic maintenence. I just thought of that and found it interesting in this situation.
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-S1. Pow
"Violence is Art by another means"
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