Make them able to fit

They have these things called clues. You should try getting one sometime. The existence of sewing machines and dying kits is irrelevant to my response to Dana. She made an analogy of what she can expect to get from a real life department store in an attempt to give some objective basis as to why she should be entitled to expect retail SL clothing to be modifiable. There is no such thing as modifiable clothing in the real world as it exists in SL so the attempt to make the analogy is silly.

Using sewing machines and color kits is more akin to making your own clothing. Good luck on using a sewing machine to lengthen a short sleeve Armani silk shirt that you just bought into a long sleeve one, or using a dying kit to change the color on a St. John wool-knit jacket. Maybe you should try getting a clue for that too. God forbid you should take the time to actually read responses and posts and less time making ignorant, unsuccessful attempts at sarcasm.

That's right, Beezle, shopping in SL is kind of like shopping when you're on vacation, away from your sewing machine and dye vats.

And I think the SL version of getting sewing and dying equipment would be learning to do what we SL clothing makers have learned to do.

The problem here is that a lot of people's posts take a tone that suggests that retailers have an obligation to make things mod. They don't. If you don't like it either a) shop elsewhere, or b) change your shape to match the item of clothing if you really like it that much (let's face it, that's what we do in real life to fit into those drain pipe jeans/wedding dresses we all love - not that I wear wedding dresses you understand........)

Thread, needle, scissors with or without a seamstress/tailor to alter things. High end department stores used to and may still have an alterations dept and try going to anything but the cheapest of men's suit stores and not have that option.

I'm short in RL, I have to mod the length of pants all the time or wear the rolled up. I can stick them inside the tops of boots if I want. I've stitched up the sides of sleeves so they wouldn't be so baggy and the lenght of most suit type jackets for the same reason as the length of pants (even petites are usually too long), I've narrowed pant legs for my mom in years past because her legs were very thin and her waist wide so she looked extra obese if the pants didn't taper, esp at the point just below the hips.

As for tint, while I've never done, I know folks who have, they do sell the fabric dye bottles for a reason other than tie-dye.

So lets not let real life comparisons get in the way of things here.

Char

I sell stuff:

MOD
I actually WANT people to try and modify my items. Run with them, learn and enjoy. Make it your own. I even deliver free sets of textures with my houses for instance, so people can alter and change it.
Will some look bad? Probably, but they owner is happy, which is what counts for me. And there are actually a lot out there that look good, sometimes better than what they started with.

COPY
Allow people to make mistakes, mess up. Everybody in SL does. Always having a fresh backup takes away the fear to experiment.
Does that mean landlords can just buy one and rez 50? Yes. But it didn't cost me the material to make 50. So I don't mind. I probably would have lost the sale, if they had to spend 50 times as much anyways. And it makes them come back, for different models, other sizes etc.

NO-TRANS
Sadly, but i can't without keeping the other perms.


SL is still a place to express your own personality and creativity. For some that means building complete sims, for others it means changing the wallpaper in their prefabricated house, or combining the pants of one set, with the shirt of another.

Maybe i will make a little less friends under my fellow creators now, but the argument of making things no-mod, because you don't trust your customers to have the taste or creativity to change an item in a way you would approve... they are the people who actually chose to buy *your* items, based on their taste...

Other then to say no mod is done simply because they choose not to I've still not seen any good excuse or need for making anything non-modifiable especially clothes.

And I believe there is none. You're selling clothes, let the person who brought them make them fit the way they want. You got tthe money and it's none of your business what and how they modify them now.

So, apparently "no mod" is done just for the hell of it as there is no good reason for it. Other then for laziness or in most cases to soothe the ego of the creator as they actually in their mind believe they actually invented said item and have a say in what happens even after they sell it as well as they feel people will "mess up their creations." Oh, please, come into reality already.

Another thing this isn't real life so stop comparing the two. Stop making weak cheap excuses for everything that happens in sl. It's sl not rl and the faster you realize it the more sense your comments will make. Comparing rl to sl is dumb at best especially when you're talking about the mod in clothes. No you can't modify in rl but, hello, this isn't rl now is it?

Artist? You serious, artist? This is why most act the way they do, with over sized egos, you have people calling them artists and designers. They are not artist or designers, this isn't rl. So they make stuff? So what? If you're going to make something to sell then make it right or not at all.

Artist, designers, yeah right!

<SARCASM>
Yes! And same with all those newfangled 'Photographers', 'Cinematographers' and 'Record recording people'. You want know what is art? *points at a Rembrandt* That is art!
</SARCASM>

Art isn't defined by the medium you use. It's defined by the originality, creativity and skill of the creator. Ofcourse there are different levels of originality, creativity and skill in the creations in SL, but so are there in RL.

Yeah, yeah and I suppose you're one of these "artist" or "designers" also. It's all about the ego isn't it? Keep it in check, you'll be better off in the long run.

**NEWSFLASH**
No one cares!!!

Ah, so this is abuse, then?

Just pointing out that it is possible to "mod" things IRL. Never adjusted a hem?

/me waits for a second spew of invective.

I wasn't attacking your opinion that artists/designers often have big egos. I was just pointing out the fallacy of your argumentation. Artists/designers often do have big egos, and high pride in their work (whether deserved or not). But this isn't related to the medium they use or field in which they work.
On your ad hominem, yes I am a creator in SL, but i will never call myself an artist as such. The title artist is not something you claim, it's something you earn.

Speak for yourself please. Some of us are happy with our shapes and sizes in real life, and either buy clothes that fit, or do alterations to them when they don't fit.

And for those saying clothes in RL aren't modifyable, ALL real life clothes are modifyable. I've let jeans out to fit around bigger waistbands, i've shortened sleeves, hemmed pants, dyed clothes, etc. All rl clothing is modifyable, now whether or not it looks good still once someone alters it, well that's all on the wearer's back. Just like any clothing you get in SL that is modify and the owner plays with it.

Im a designer here in Sl..and i really dont see the big deal about making clothes mod..i make mine mod becuz of the various reasons ppl listed here..when i buy clothes..i want to be able to make them fit the way i like..it really doesnt hurt your "clothes" when you allow the customer to change the sliders..

Multi-color packaging is one good reason to make clothing no-mod.

Ah, so a sewing kit from the hotel gift shop to shorten up these pants legs doesn't count?



So, you would argue that RL clothing isn't moddable? Or are you arguing that if I don't like the clothing you offer for sale, I should piss off and go make my own?

[and from a different post] I sense real, constructive ideas, Kaimi. I think you're onto something here... a real need... I wish I had a clue how to help satisfy it.

Not at all sure the following ramble contributes much, but... Just this morning, I picked out a freebie shirt, simply because I could mod it to match the color of the pattern on some pants. Now, when I got done with it, I don't suppose it was at all what the designer had in mind for that shirt, but it looked really great (IMHO) with the pants.

I suppose I had some "creative" input into the outfit by adjusting the tint, slightly more than just selecting the pieces, but nothing nearly as challenging as making it from scratch. In fact, I've made a few clothing textures--god bless R(S)W (no names, but y'all recognize those initials). And making novel clothing is very time-consuming, at least for me. If I had to wear only my own original clothes, I think I'd become a SL naturalist!

And yet, and yet... I do want to have more creative input into my avatar's appearance than just selecting stuff from stores, but not have to spend hours in the Gimp for every item I add to my wardrobe. I think there's a market for that, if one could devise a way to statisfy it. (Till then... I sure appreciate being able to tint my hand-me-down freebie shirt. )

As a clothing designer ALL of my clothing items (NOT prim attachments) are no mod EXCEPT pants (And any sleeve add ons I do, I like to allow my customers to choose whether they want tight sleeves, and if not they can adjust the bagginess of them). And I myself refuse to buy no mod pants. You really have no reason to otherwise mod a shirt or something, I mean it fits how it fits. Unless youre talking shirt layer sleeve bagginess.

For instance, if I make a tank top, whats the benefit, to the consumer, if its mod or not? just what are they going to do to the tank top? I am not understanding the logic in it. Pants, i can totally understand the logic in why one would want them mod and I thoroughly agree. But clothing such as tops? Prim attachments should always be mod as well, imo


This happened to me when I was slighty noobish. I bought some slippers which looked great in the ad but when I put them on they were TINY (not man size at all) and when I IMD the creator he was rude as can be and said "you can thank people who like to take my things and mod them for that" WTF?

Needless to say I never bought from him again, nor do I recommend him to anyone.

Wow, You can`t be even half serious.

Whether you like it or not, many SL designers are incredibly talented people, regardless of what platform we are using to express this talent. Many of us can draw, paint, arts and crafts, etc extremely well in RL. Some of us even do RL design-work outside of secondlife. It does not matter what canvas someone is using to be artistic, its a talent.

You may want to check this out: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/artist

Are you suggesting, with your post, that the designers of second life have no artistic talent? Here, or there. That is absurd!

Some of the talent I have seen here in SL far surpasses that of other virtual worlds where the company hires their own folks to make content for its users. Surely you would call their employees artists, designers, talented individuals. Why the feather ruffling over SL designers being called artists?


art·ist (är'tĭst) Pronunciation Key
n.
1. One, such as a painter, sculptor, or writer, who is able by virtue of imagination and talent or skill to create works of aesthetic value, especially in the fine arts.

2. A person whose work shows exceptional creative ability or skill: You are an artist in the kitchen.


While SL designers may not do design work for your favorite RL clothing company, it does not make what we do fake. We provide our real life time, real life money, and real life talent into providing content for Second Life; and I feel your comment is a direct slap in our face.

Lol ok maybe it's like staying at the kind of hotel that doesn't provide sewing kits.

Heh. With the talk of Armani, we're talking a hotel where you ask the concierge where the nearest dry cleaner that does alterations is.



As long as prim clothing parts are mod, I generally don't mind -- although things like long poofy sleeves and long skirts can be problematic if not mod.

Yeah it's all far from perfect. The very avater mesh (the 3d information) could easily be way better than it is.

And lord forbid we have AV's that are more muscular than "average." o.O

All of my prim items are mod and I usually make skirts mod also because people are not equal in hip and thigh size. But if someone asks me for an item that isnt Mod I will give them another that is but i dont usually just sell all my designs mod.

I have never had a problem helping a customer of mine. The only reason all my designs arent mod has already been stated.. if its a tank top why does it need to be mod? Or if it is textured and not white or grey there is no reason for tinting it some other color.

IMO I think saying we make items no mod is because of greed is going a bit to far because most designers I know dont sell as was discribed. I know I dont make a pair of pants and then in the next vendor the shorts are there for another price. In fact I usually have all the matching pieces in the one vendor.

I do see *some* of the "multiple colors available or buy a multi-pack" as being a tad on the greedy side -- part of my brain thinks "Why isn't it white and tintable instead?"

Of course, this depends on the item, and whether or not it's obvious the creator just did tinting and made the tints no-mod, or if each color was a separate upload -- things like white trim with the various colors, for example. I bought a multi-pack of tube socks, because there's obviously no way to tint the different color stripes onto a white sock.

When I first started designing I made things No Mod (reasoning that my designs were perfect....). However I soon came to realize based on comments I got that, many customers want the flexibility to modify the clothes they buy from me.

So I swallowed my artistic pride and gave them what they asked for. Now anything you buy from me can be Modfied.

It was an object lesson for me in considering the people who wear my designs and not my own silly ego.