new grids: old hate

seeing a company say they are legally scared shitless might be cool.

you see a huge difference? you say one is bigotry but one would not be?but they both have the same end result?
in other words it would be ok for you to do it but if a company comes out doing it they would be performing bigotry..
yes i understand now

i don't think i have ever said kumbyah i my whole life lol
no i'm reading you just fine..you seem to be misunderstanding my point that you can't point in one direction and say look at these guys and how wrong they are while talking to people who may be having the same rules themselves and saying to them ..it's not the same thing ..you are ok because you are over here...

i don't care about who this other company is..never been there and chances i never will go there..i don't care what rules someone has in their own sim..
i do care about free enterprise over monopolies..

some of these worlds are being started by people that came from SL and taking the parts they enjoy and making a whole world of that..
making it the way they wish..

just as a sim was to them in SL their own grid is to them on the internet..

um, no you don't. i say it is a huge difference based on your analogy
to the way child avatars are treated in second life and having a company starting an alternative to second life that in their own words says "take your second life back" making it policy for all. and yes i would call anyone who excludes child avatars from their land a bigot in second life.
it is NOT ok for either in my mind, but if someone renting a piece of property in second life makes it law on their land it is not a policy that is made for the second life as a whole. i hope you understand now.
i see points made that make me feel a little differently abot some of it. but if the name of second life is being used to promote legend city by it's owners as a place to "take it back" why exclude the child avatars? if i had my own grid i would be proud for the mari's of second life to come to it.
and to others excluding child avatars simply because they act as children is indeed fitting in the definition of bigot. nobody wants to be called a bigot but if you act like one you will be.

i do understand the difference but i also understand why those rules in all those sims were not there before the linden change to the child avatar..
it was not because people hated them..it was because they either became aware of what some people would use child avatars for or because it was to stop future problems with people that still use them in those ways..

you don't really have to pass a ban on certain things to get what you want ..you just have to make some rules strict enough that people will go a step above to make sure they don't break them..in this case you have sim owners protecting their own interests by setting strict rules to make sure a linden rule isn't broken..
they are not bigots..just people protecting their sims..

if you look around a lot of these worlds you will see LL is one of the few that has them..
and if one thing goes wrong .one incident pops up on the media with child avatars..just like in the past with other things taken away..they probably would go away too..

i just see a company starting out that is wanting to keep their grid all adult like most of the rest on the net..
these are avatars we are talking about..not humans..digital data..
bigotry can only happen to the people behind the avatar..not the avatar itself..

if someone wants to be a child in any of these worlds they are gonna do it.if they want the appearance of a child avatar then this will be one of sl's strengths over the future competition..
thats what it's all about really..i mean i'm not gonna go eat a hot dog in one place and the next day walk into another place and get pissed because they don't have hot dogs..

it was that restaurants choice not to have it on the menu..

and yes it is the same because avatars are content..and it is the owners right to serve what they wish..

"take your second life back" is a sales pitch not policy and could mean a few things..
it could be a call to the pioneers of sl or it could mean as you join.turn face lindens and say..take your second life back..
it's a sales pitch ..it could mean something different to everyone that reads it..

either way..the more worlds that do not have the child avatars will only make SL more of a home for them..is that so bad?
i have friends that are child avatars on here and i hope they don't find another world to go to..but at the same time..it's nice to have other options coming to virtual worlds because the more that show up will only expand how good they will be in the next few years..plus
a little competition keeps everyone on their toes.
LL has been laid back for too long and needs to feel the pressure so they can make themselves even better..

i tried legends, there was 8 people on the same region as me and it was a massive lagfest...aint been back since.

ya i tried open life and wish i had seen that many..
i couldn't change my shape or anything at all..not even in appearance..
it is pretty much at ground zero like most of these places are right now..
i don't think they will really get going until content creators either grow their or come from other worlds..
it should be neat to see virtuals in a couple years though

i found a way we can be any age we want in any world..look for the code signs..they will be in numbers so everyone lets sync up kk?
i'm gonna make an avatar and name it mmmmmmmm i know!! Dewey cox

example rp:

Deweys momma: Oh there he is!!! there's my favorite >14< year old boy havin his own band n all..Dewey i'm so proud of yuuu learnin to play and sing ..And all while smell blinded at a young age too!

Dewey : Aww it's ok maw ..i learned how to play by ear

Dewey's band: Yaa yaaa yaaa let me hold yer hand!! (repeat chorus)
=



Dewey's New girlfriend: wow that was such a great song Dewey..
=
Dewey:will you come away with me..
=
Dewey's New girlfriend:ya mean that Dewey
=
Dewey: well yayaaa silly..it was you i pointed to from the stage.
=
Dewey's New girlfriend:Ya'all hear that??!! I'm Dewey's brand new >12< year old Girl Freind!!!
=

=========================================
way ahead in the future like maybe a year or two from now
==========================================

Dewey's New girlfriend: Dewey!! turn that racket down i'm tryin to feed the babies!!
=
Dewey: This is my passion and how am i gonna make it in the music business if you don't have faith in me??
=
Dewey's New girlfriend:I do have faith in ya Dewey.. i know your just gonna fail??
=


Dewey:Well i think i'm doin pretty darn good for a >15< year old with a wife and babies!!
=


i think we could pull it off..

Well Moop, yet again my belief, that those who don't know the correct usage of its and it's are lacking in the ability to present a cogent argument, is reinforced.

In England you have to be 18 to drink alcohol in pubs legally. Some pubs allow minors in because there are exceptions for the provision of food. I stay away from those places, because I don't want indisciplined, screaming, misbehaving brats running around under my feet while I am getting drunk, swearing, having nonsensical arguments and picking fights.

If anyone is showing bigotry it is you, demanding that commercial organisations fall in with your own limited and childish ("it's not fair!" world view.

Pep (Likes kids, but couldn't eat a whole one)

LL U-turned... A witch hunt commenced... The SL we see today is partially a result of it. But, talking about it here will start a firestorm. It would be best to search older threads to read about the history, and PLEASE don't necro-post in them. The 'debate' (whatever it was) is believed to be over and we go on with our seedy little deviant lives. (^_^)y

Offered without comment as I have no strong feelings either way, here is the icon for the "Community" link on their homepage:

I see many of these "other places" as nothing more than the inmates running the asylum.

I think outrage is not appropriate. I agree with Kidd that the wording of their ToS suggests that they're not exactly prepared for any legal challenges, so removing the "sexual age-play" problem is likely to be safer for them. And it's certainly well within the rights of a commercial establishment, targeting a certain clientele.

That doesn't prevent it from being a fatally flawed business direction--and not because they'll miss out on some huge market of child AVs.

They're going to get (only) residents who are "okay with" banning child AVs; indeed, the environment is especially attractive to those who "hate" child AVs. Once they're populated with the customers they've selected, it may not be a comfortable place for anyone who is not so eager to hate AVs different from their own.

That is to say, it has defined itself as a boring place, full of hate--not because they want that outcome, but because that's the likely result of unintentionally selecting for hateful, boring customers.

i took a look around there this morning for a few minutes..i don't see much difference from this legand place to the sl interface..it's kind of neat you start out with some really nice avatars and prim outfits and it seems to run better than the few others i have looked at .but it just reminds me of being in sl at some earlier stages..

i browsed the forums and saw an age limit thread..
i guess if parents permit their kids to go in their world they are allowed to..
someone posted this to a concerned parent..
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1. Use of the Virtual Land Service
(a) Customer understands the simulator ESTATE or REGION in which they may be leasing land is governed by Legend City Online. To access the Legend City Online Community, Customer must accept and observe the terms of this Agreement. Customer assumes sole responsibility for use of the Service we provide and payments due for their monthly tier (as defined below) in connection with the Customer account.
(cool.gif Legend City Online reserves the right to update and change this agreement as necessary.
© Legend City Online will make available any change in terms to this agreement.
(d) Legend City Online will not knowingly execute an Agreement with anyone under the age of 18. Persons under age 18 may not use the Service without the consent and supervision of their parent or legal guardian. We only provide MATURE land. If Customer chooses to permit a minor to use the Service, Customer agrees to (i) supervise minor's use of any and all MATURE land usage, (ii) assume all risks associated with the minor's viewing of content received through use of virtual land we offer, (iii) assume any and all liabilities, including payment for services, resulting from the minor's use of Legend City Online Services as specified in this Agreement.
Subject to the terms of this Agreement, the Customer is responsible for all charges associated with tier fees or SIMulator name change fees, if applicable.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

the thing that gets me is that all these places are using LL language..is it open source to where anyone can make a virtual world using their language?

i mean LL would have had them in court by now i would think if it wasn't open..
that or like that video shows on that legend site..maybe a porthole is coming to all these places?

Well the title of this thread is apropos.

What i have seen from hanging out on other grids is massive SL hatred, SL bashing and resentment.

The kicker is that they are still members of SL and still posting here but yet go to the other place to speak poorly of SL. It really is a joke. If you do not like it here stop coming and just go back to do your "tee-hee LL sucks so bad and SL is going to die and this new grid is going to LIVE" fun time.

I can operate between multiple grids without sitting in one and griping about every single negative experience LL has heaped on to me through their unfair suspensions, competing directly against me, supporting my competitors, lying about the direction they wanted the world to go in, etc..etc..the list goes on - and yes we abandoned an OS sim too!

It just seems rather hypocritical to have come here to SL and then fallen in love with the world and once you get bruised by LL a couple times you storm off as if SL did not give you something you never had before in your life. Be grateful, be thankful, and now be happy that LL Open Sourced their code that is giving you a life on a new grid that is not run by LL.

The biggest turn off about the other grids right now are the ex-patriots who sit there bemoaning the woes of SL and how LL ruined their virtual world. WOE IS WE. Why go someplace new if all you can do is bring with you all the baggage of your 'oh so bad experience' in the place you left and talk about it there. Don't you have new things to talk about like being a "pioneer" and making a difference in the new grid you now belong to?

Anyways, you know who you are. Have fun, don't let the prim hit you on the way out, and I will see you there when it's more stable and and an effective means of having a social existence that can be funded by my in-world creations. Because right now, for all the moaning and groaning about LL, SL & bugs, the new places are far from being as stable and haven't even experienced a growing a pain yet and i expect those should be fun.

Actually not fully true. While I do not support many viewpoints around the world, I am pretty firm in my believe of free speech for all. However, in SL, you cannot depict any image of the Nazi's or their bigoted viewpoint. While I definitely disagree with the entire Hitler philosophy, I still believe in anyone's right to continue to spout that crap or wave that dumb symbol around.

It does show however, that even LL makes some judgement calls and bans stuff that is not actually illegal, simply reprehensible to the masses.

I would argue the phrase "pretty smart" as I personally believe that any person or company that takes the easy way out just to avoid having to battle for their beliefs is really just copping out.

Maybe you mean "Not actually illegal in the United States".

LMAO - figures.

Yes, point taken. However, SL is based in the US and they have already shown that the majority of their rules and actions are based upon the US laws.

Well that is understandable since the place which the OP is speaking of is trying to attract those scorned by SL, atleast that was the impression I got from their website. Which that type of sales pitch is completely unattractive to me. Of course I do not feel abused by LL like some others do so I guess I can't understand. Then I also wonder if the other places really will be different and value their residents or just the special elite in their communities. Just a feeling I got when reading deeper.

It's only natural for people who are somewhat disgruntled (or extremely unhappy) with something they think has somhow let them down.....in this case a virtual world. I remember when I first found these forums almost three years ago quite a few The Sims Online bashing threads. Almost every one of those threads started out with the statement: "I'm a TSO refugee". Then laid into how crappy the game had become and how much better SL was. I was never a TSO member so I cannot say for sure, but I will bet there were, at least, a few threads going on their forums about how crappy SL was compared to TSO. It's just human nature.

I'm sure the developers of Legend City know that people tend to be that way and are attempting to tap into that side of human nature by openly comparing LCO to SL. They know (or percieve) discontent in SL members and are using that unrest to further their platform........"take back your Second Life" is obviously an attempt to get those unhappy SL'ers to come try Legend City. It's also obvious that the developers have seen problems come up that caused LL huge headaches and stirred the SL residents to almost full rebellon and are attempting to head off those issues before they come up..........the child sexual avatar thing is one such example.

And, me being me, I'm going to go and give it a try.......see for myself how it is. See if I will like it. See if I want immigrate or just visit......maybe change my citizenship or carry a dual citizenship. Who knows.

i really haven't been in these other worlds too long myself mainly because i crash ,can't log in,never see anyone or just can't do anything like move or edit when i get in them..

so i end up in the forums or check out their chat boxes..
i agree there is a lot of hate for LL or at least a lot of discussions about things that people had felt they were either burnt by or something as simple as it not being the same as before..
I really don't understand myself the anger in either direction.too them or from them..

i mean they are trying to get going and can't do it without LL language but at the same time these may be places to expand businesses later..

i don't think LL opened up their source so they could make enemy worlds..the more i look at it..it is all about making virtual worlds the thing of the future..

i don't think these worlds are being made to get back at LL for something..
to me it just seems like they are taking what they loved about SL and making their own version of their perfect time here and getting people around them that have more in common..

i don't agree with all the hate that is going on from members going back and forth..
these worlds are so far behind that there really is not a leg to stand on when they compare..
myself i would use these worlds as more of a backup than anything..say SL is running like crap..i may go and build in this one or that one..or if i felt like making something for one world or the other being in there that night..
i don't think it is LL's intention to make enemies and i am hoping it is not these other worlds intentions..
people need to look at these as expansions more than the us against them thing..

just like LL these new places are going to trip and fall and make decisions that make people angry..
without knowing the why's to the decisions has people assuming..
assumption of others actions is always going to lead to opinions to the point people see them as fact..then we have people speaking for that system or each other and here we are..hate threads here and there and the war goes on..

i think a lot make assumptions by emotions rather than taking a more logical look..
of course that is me only assuming so it holds about as much weight as prim in my rl hands lol
maybe all the angry talk is what keeps some motivated to make these new worlds grow..
who knows..
i just know i would rather see these worlds enhance each other rather than seperate us all..
who knows ..maybe one day there will be a neko grid or a childrens grid or an S&M grid..
then the grandmother/father of them all SL (the bot grid) lol kidding..LL being the world for them all to exist..
i think portholes would be the kitties can nip to me

I have an account in LCO, as Ceera Murakami. But I exist there in only one adult Human form, and only to represent myself as a texture artist who will soon be selling textures there with TRU. I am one of many freelance artists who sells textures at TRU in SL, and all of TRU's artists have been invited to sell through the new store in LCO. I don't run TRU or set TRU policy. I just get free advertising and store exposure in return for a profit split on my actual sales. It's a deal that has worked out well for me, and for TRU.

LCO is one of the few alternative grids that seem to be taking a hard stand against IP theft and against any use of Bots. TRU considered the pro's and con's of selling textures in LCO's grid, and figured if TRU didn't set up a store there and represent TRU products there, and also thereby defend TRU's own IP rights there, that someone else might well upload TRU textures there illegally, with no one in that world being able to recognize or prosecute against such thefts. (LCO also requires that any complaints about IP theft have to be lodged by the content creator who was wronged, but assured us that if we set up a store there, they would defend our IP rights.) So, TRU is setting up a store there.

As a new world to actually play in? LCO is not for me. They restrict a wide range of activities that are acceptable in SL. Being in a kid form (which I do on occasion in SL), is just one of many restrictions that they place on avatar activities. A lot of what they chose to restrict is based on taking a very cautious, "cover the grid owner's ass first" approach to what is allowed. They opted for a reduced risk of controversy over resident freedom of expression.

Also, like ALL the new grids, nothing there works 100% right, as yet. Not even simple things like standing on the terrain surface without being ankle-deep in the soil, or being able to walk on a prim floor without randomly falling through it. One of the admins was jubilant that they had recently managed to successfully import and use one dance animation... It's so rough there that I have absolutely no intention of opening a branch of Fox and Ground Construction Company there, at any time soon. I won't put my name on buildings that you can't reliably walk through on the second floor.

They have a currency system and you can buy their local version of L$, and can even transfer L$ from SL to their currency in their world. But you can't yet cash anything out from their currency back into real money, nor can you transfer their currency into SL to convert it back into L$.

As far as I could tell, avatar atttachments generally work, and their first functional AO's are in alpha stage right now. (They tend to detach when you cross sim borders, and have to be reattached). But no one is yet in-world selling non-Human avatars, even though one LCO admin somehow has a very nice anthro tiger avatar...

For anyone looking for a replacement for SL, no, LCO isn't ready for prime time, or even for the hinterlands yokels. It's still a virgin frontier, and if you want a home there, you must bring an axe (your own content creation skills) and build it yourself...

What I am hoping for is a portal between grids - "Trusted Grids". I am on all the other grids except Avatar Hangout (ach mein gott that place looks so bad). I plan on N&B setting up shop on the new grids within the next 4-6 months (minus the Furniture-Foo scripting engine as we do not trust the other grids with the core of our product).

I have spent time on one grid and entered all my shape values 3 times and 3 times they have been lost only to find out that there is some special process you must do so that does not happen. What a total drain...and right now i do not have the money to invest in a full sim and no one is offering 1/4 or 1/3rd sims for rent so for now, I am stuck in SL until the other grids virtual land markets expand enough where there are people renting/leasing out land to residents like me who do not want or cannot afford a full sim/server setup.

I hope one of these grids does things better than LL has done, but right now I have little faith that it will happen as it is easy to speak ideally of how things will be until you get those 'welcome to reality' checks like a law suit that can potentially put you out of business, and then things change radically - also, the want of money does that too - and I expect that all the people who run these new grids want to (1) avoid law suits that can put them out of business, and (2) want money; and both of those means that some idealistic aspects of what these grids want to do is going to be changed at some point - just like what happened to LL. The direction they go after the change, and how much they lose sight of their original idealistic vision of a new future grid will determine how different from LL these places really are.

It is easy for a group of motor-cross amateurs to judge a track with all its dips, bumps and jumps and vocalize how well they will fair on that track, but they do not actually know until they ride the track and handle the obstacles, and prove they can make better choices in navigating the same terrain and then come out in a better position than LL, the current champions of the track.

Okay, okay.............I'm sold. I know I'm going to like there now..........heck I'm always game for crashes. LOL.

Seriously, it does sound like an interesting place. Full of pitfalls that one must overcome. Actually, just like what I percieve SL being 5 years ago. As soon as I do a few RL chores this morning I'm off to LCO.