Linden Loyalists

There is an evil revolution going on to overthrow Governor Linden and all the Lindens.

They claim that we are taxed unfairly, they claim that the Lindens are evil dictators.

I say NO! The lindens have given us more than we could ever imagine. Giving us their time, blood, sweat, and tears. This world would not be possible without the Lindens.

They claim we are taxed without representation, if this is so then why do they respond to every fear of ours, all of our concerns? Why do they ask for our feedback? Because we do represent ourselves. This is the best Development team ever and they rock!

So I hereby announce the start of the Linden Loyalist army, we shall do battle with these so called revolutionaries.

If we ever want a more equitable tax situation then we must work with the Lindens not against them.

Anyone with a tea warehouse that needs to be protected by the Linden Loyalists let me know and I will set up guards!

General JV

*listens to a weird noise off in the distance.........*

What IS that kissing sound ???




-Tracey Kato, Private 1st Class in the Revolutionary Army

<sigh>

There is a quote about the hand that feeds you that keeps being shouted in my mind every time I read one of those whiney I over extended myself I cant believe I can't support this gigantic huge project posts.

I have been on the 'recieving end' of many development teams. And let me say this:

Linden is the most responsive, and in touch with the player base group I have ever seen.

Period.

They decide, rightly, that the -1k cap is being very, very unfairly abused. They decide to remove it and even announce it ahead of time! That is more than most other development teams. But here is the kicker .... they postpone it due to player response. Seriously. Every other devel team I have dealt with would at least have implemented it immediatly and waited to see how the player response changed over the next couple of weeks before taking a second look at the issue.

Money is equivalant to resources. In RL and in SL. The resources differ but in both cases are limited. The SL economy is setup as a way of distributing the limited server resources of SL.

The nuances of the economy - tax credits (bonus), ratings, vote booths all of it; they are there so that instead of everyone always getting the same cut of the resources as everyone else, the player base can decide who should have more resources. That is the goal, to the best of my understanding.

The ideal is a way to say 'Hey I like you, the things you have built or the things you have done. I like how you influence the world, how you use the resources. I think you should have more of that influence, more of those resources", and for it to actually happen!

The result is a very dynamic system. Which causes some trouble with lack of predicatbility.

Now there may be some fair arguments for some tax cuts. I'm not saying there aren't. And there is definatly room for new improvements.

I have always preached a live within your means philosophy. Start small, you can't build your castle on your first week here. You need to work at it and build up. Yes it can be hard, and yes it can seem like work.

No reward that is easy to get is valued as high as something you worked your arse off for.

And that is comming from the person who runs gambling games. Remember it for it is the truth.

- Ama Omega
Linden Loyalist.

jon, jon, jon.....

benedict arnold von lenard? well well well

What I think many people arent getting is that the small but vocal few who are gaming the system.. or the big projects that have used the cap to get by.. are hurting the people who live within their means and also lowering their own long term payouts.

My bonus has dropped steadily as has everyone elses because the economy is out of balance. People NEED to pay the accurate amount of taxes to keep things in balance and keep money circulating. If there isnt money to circulate, your bonus shrinks as does everyone elses.

Granted, the economy isnt perfect... but its still evolving. The Lindens are very responsive and want this to work as much as we do if not more.

If you want more without having to work for it maybe we need to revisit the idea of being able to purchase the use of a sim with RL money.

I do think the change should have been communicated with a larger time for folks to prepare for it but now with a delay that is happening.

I still think the cap needs to be lifted so there will be more for all. My group has some adjusting to do too but I hardly see it as the end of our theme. We just need to regroup and create a new strategy.

Very, very well said Misnomer.

Jon,
You misunderstand one of the best points about this. We *ALL* support the Lindens. Why do we? Because even they admit the tax/stipend/bonus/economy system in place is not perfect, and are looking for ways to fix it.

The tax problems of late are a big sore point, because it was so sudden. There are a lot of huge projects going on right now which are unfortunately supported by this bug. With it so suddenly yanked out, the whole structure of them was looking grim and about to topple.

The Lindens of course saw this as well, which is why it has been postponed. I don't think anyone dislikes them, but changes of this scale are always going to cause a huge stir, especially when they hit one of those little toothpicks that half the world is resting it's weight upon.

i hear the same sound ..........sounds like kissing to me wonder whats being kissed ?
jon any ideas ? J/K


this post in no way shape or form is meant as anthing other than poking fun at Jon ......

The Lindens are far too soft on their players and its actually hurting the game. A lot of people here dont understand the purpose of the game: this is not a utopian place where you can do whatever comes to your head and build whatever you feel inspired to, and keep on building and building and building until you run out of ideas.
This is the real world folks. Computer Science and Engineering are very advanced but we still have to deal with limits such as bandwidth, disk space, processing power and these resources have to be distributed fairly among all users.
As much as you like your builds, as much as you think you are doing a service to the community by making this world a prettier world to "live" in, the fact remains that if no one asked for your services you are merely building to feed your ego and keep yourself entertained. If what you build is truly useful then maybe you can find some people to help support it.
IMHO this game, if you see it as a game, and not a chat proggy with a 3D "whiteboard" that happens to have a poorly thought-out economy, is by far the easiest game I have ever played. Games should be challenging in order to be fun. Getting free money every week is silly and unrealistic. Having a -1000 cap is as silly as having a +3500 one. I would like to see this game get a realistic player-run economy, where the old timers who have stockpiled thousands upon thousands of dollars, and have no use for them, would hire and pay the newer members to help out with large projects.
Taxes are too low already. Do you pay a mere 10% taxes in america? Gee, I envy you. I have to pay 19% VAT on everything I buy, IRS can go as high as 40% for rich people, and on top of that if you own cars, land or buildings you have to pay even more taxes on those.
But what this game needs, more than an economy redesign, is to deal with the various ways people are abusing the system. All the rate miners out there made my stipend drop from over 4k to about 2.7k - just a tad above my taxes - and im still not complaining.
Lets put it in a more summed up fashion:
- Your imagination is infinite.
- Resources are finite.
- Thus, no matter how plentiful the resources are, you will run out of them.
- You must be stopped before you get there.
- Taxes are the present solution.

IMHO the taxes are too low when compared to real economies, and you can definitely see they are too low if, like me, you have been the victim of prim hoarders. If taxes were higher people wouldnt be able to hoard massive amounts of objects and would hopefully learn proper 3D design and conserve prim usage when building.
I do, however, agree that special exceptions should be made for themed sims and other such projects. I dont see why public service builds should be paid for by the players. IRL monuments belong to the government, so the Lindens should take over them when they are finished and leave us free to engage in our private builds.
I deleted everything I owned to be able to do the disco, and I'm still not whining about the taxes.
Count me in as a Linden Loyalist

To those discussing kissing sounds:

There's no need to be rude. Everyone is entitled to his or her opinion.



I don't think there's anything wrong with a spirited "revolution." The country in which SL was made and is housed in was founded on such.

There's no question in my mind that the Lindens are a great and responsive team, indeed, the best, but sometimes even the best need to be made aware of perspectives that they may have overlooked. In fact, they likely welcome this.

As far as biting the hand that feeds, that goes both ways.

In a world dependent on player content, it is not unreasonable for the player to want to be represented fairly in matters of government and finance.

Perhaps there could be a system whereby player representatives are invited to participate in "governmental affairs."

On a lighter note, people should understand that those protesting are doing so in a good-natured way and have the highest respect and affection for the Lindens.

Let's keep this in perspective and not be insulting to one another.

--Merriman

Nothing is necessary or irreplacable in SL. If Americana wants to cry its little heart out and replace Fanway Park with a cube, then another group will become the new centerpiece. If someone decides to quit because he/she is upset that he/she cannot support a fifth pet project, two more people just as skilled as the first will appear in his/her place. If you rely on a tax loophole to hold onto your secondworldly possesions, don't get indignant about it if the management team takes it away. You are not your prims, you are not your hoverboard, you are not your custom-created Billie Sunchaser-brand khakis.

merriman- the kissing comments (along with my B> Arnold comment) were aimed at jon...with a smile from his friends.

eggy- i agree with much of what you are saying...along with many others. but i truly believe there need to be at least SOME changes made. no plan is perfect but we can keep working toward that goal.


with much love,

Dragon Crossing


P.S.

isnt revolution fun? i think so

edit: swartz...u snuck in on me....its ok ...were not trying to insult you, we love you too

When I read Jon’s post, I took it as good fun, a parody on what was being said in the Revolution thread. I responded in fun hoping to get a laugh. I in NO WAY intended what I said to be harmful or hurtful. If anyone takes what I said in that manner, I DEEPLY appolgize.

Having spent a few moments thinking, I can't think of one bad thing I could say about the Lindens. They have been there to help me when I've needed it, and offered advice when I didn't know I needed it. I am happy to be a part of this experience.

Tracey

Glad I'm not the only one that took the Revolution thread as being all in good fun. I made a one line post over there and somehow got drafted into the "army".

This is fine with me until the actual fighting begins, at which point I'll join the SL Red Cross, move to Canada, or ask to join the division that specializes fabrics and interior design. (Credit to Monty Python).

I think the debate is useful, I just wish it were all being conducted in one place rather than the dozen or so threads it seems to have spread to.

I also think CHANGE is good. I wish more variations on the economy were experimented with during the beta before so many people felt vested in the system. I made a proposal for dealing with some proposed changes via a parallel economy that wouldn't count at first. Nobody seemed to pick up on that one, so I'll second myself

I think there is something people are also not remembering - every sim has a prim limit. I think it is definately in the Linden's game plan to make it HARD for people to fill up a sim's prim limit. THe economy has to be worked so that taxes are high enough to keep sims open. If everyone was able to build anything they want and not be afraid that they would have to tear it down later, you'd end up with all sims full and no where to build.

In the end, I think, the L$, stipend and ratings are vapourous resources, but the prim limit is a hard, definite resource. Yes, you wont be able to afford everything, yes you will have to pick and choose which 'baby' you will keep rezed and which will sit in your inventory.

Remember my friends, everything is done for a reason, good or bad and every action has a reaction. Those woh choose to complain about high taxes need to really be thankful that they have what they do. If anyone wants to replace their landmark with a cube, let them, they are only showing their own immaturity. In the words of a friend:


Ashes to Ashes.

Come on and you don't think I'm doing this lightspirited????

God some people can kill the fun... All the revolutionaries are my friends...

Have some fun and dont' take everything seriously.

All Loyal Linden Followers,

I am glad to hear your support.

Methinks the Revolutionaries are immature baffoons bent on destruction of the very fabric of our existance.

We must defend the Lindens, I have heard assassination plots coming from the enemy camp. We need to station bodyguards around all the Lindens, please i'm calling on volunteers.

Down with the Revolution, up with change through the system!

*** Disclaimer for those who don't get jokes*** The revolutionaries are my friends, I mean no disrespect. I am just the type of person who likes change through the system and thinks that the Lindens are more than enough responsive to our demands... Too much at times as at some point they need to take a stand against the players and do whats good for SL not each player... Good luck revolutionaries your gonna need it!

JV

mwhaha, WAR!

In good spirits or not, you guys ever think of putting on a civil war enactment near the newbie area? It'd be great fun and might pull them into the game more.

I just joined a little while ago and I must say that I'm happy that there were people just in the welcome area saying hi and offering suggestions. Kudos guys.

Our trained assasin squad is on the tail of BENEDICT JON VONLENARD as we speak.

The Revolution will never die!

-Bone

I think I will fill Jon's house with cows.

I think that would be a great idea ......let me know f you need help

*Sigh* looks like I'll have to lend jon my Ninja Monkey squad

I AM SORRY MY FRIEND.
BUT GENERAL FLEA HAS GIVEN ME MY ORDERS.

Why did you do this? We were friends *whimpers*.
We were the two Representatives who build the beginning of the 30's part of the sim....with our bare....rough...hands...

I am tired, Jon....I miss you....

But I must obey my orders. Please, Jon....Stay away....

I don't want to have to....

*weeps*....

But I have love for my country and my countrymen...and cannot reject our ideals.... *stands up straight*

It is time....It must be done.
GENERAL FLEA:
SHARP SHOOTER CROW, REPORTING.
I AM HEADING INTO THE JUNGLES, SIR.
I WILL NOT COME BACK WITHOUT HIS HEAD.

CROW OUT