Private dancer

Without question. Same with just about any for-profit (and some non profit) businesses. Thats how capitalisim works

-AP

Jack, I'm one of the Vogue dances, and I really can't describe how incrediably offended I am that you would call me, and the other dancers prostitutes. Franky, who the hell do you think you are to go branding me a hooker for all to see? You don't know anything about me, or what the Vogue was like, except for hearsay, gossip and pre-concieved notions, and IMHO a few personal hang-ups.

The Vogue was far more about having fun than anything else. We -NEVER- pushed the club in anyones face, and the building itself was very casual, as was the atmosphere. In fact far more people dropped in just to hang out, laugh, joke and listen to music than bought dances. Dances Jack, not prostitution, sex, or any of your imagined vulger activities.

Step back Jack, I couldn't care less what your personal opinions are concerning me, the club, or any of my friends who worked there. I will not however stand quietly by while you slander and defame our, or MY character in public like that! You can think whatever you like about us or me, doesn't matter to me, but publically spreading lies and misinformation like that is just wrong.

You do -not- have that right.

Seeing how Jai lives next door to me, I'd say she is probably one of SL's formost authorities on magic carpet rides.
And she's just mentioned visiting the club.. so I'd say she would have no problems telling the difference.

I'd say the difference between the two to be nearly as great as the difference between a dancer and a prostitute (being about the same as the difference between a bmw and a pancake).

Living in Vegas I've seen my share of RL strip clubs too - not my scene, but I'll go there with my buddies from time to time.. and the SL equivelent is quite tasteful. I've been inside Vogue several times out of 'business hours' and to me the place looks like any classy nightclub I've seen in RL.

If you wish their services, you page one of the girls - they don't 'live' in the club so to speak. So the danger to minors (who shoudn't even be there, let alone in a mature zone) is minimal to none.. probably less than any of the other mature shops in the region.

If it doesn't float your boat, don't go -- that simple.

Siggy.

+0-

The same reason many people are in any business, be it manufacturing, sales or whatever. For many its a means to attain the above. IMO this is not bad in and of itself, only if you use said money, power/control to do bad things. Some do some don't.


**related to the main topic**
Consenting adults doing what they like really does not impact anyone else negatively. How each of us percieves things is our own, we are responsible for our own feelings. In other words something will only bother you if you choose to let it.


**side note**
In addition, if Minors do make it into SL, that is not our responsibility as they are not allowed. Even if they were, it is nice for people to lead by example and be good role models, however it is not their responsibility nor should it be. That is what their parents are for, its their job and they should be teaching their children how to be decent people and how to process and deal with information/people/behavior that they deem negative. Too many already rely upon the government or others to do this, its a societal breakdown.

Prejudice=Pre-judgement
Are any of us pre-judging our fellow SL'ers? Something to ask ourselves from time to time, to keep ourselves in check.


**disclaimer**
The above comments are my thoughts and feelings only. I do not wish represent anything I have stated as fact for everyone, just sharing my thoughts and perceptions of my world.

^_^

-sean

=]

I deleted my original post. Figured I just wanted to stay out of it , you and AP made good points. Seriously I think I am just biased because my ex-wife was a stripper for quite a long time heheh .. my view of them is different than a lot of people I'm sure.

But like I said, I enjoy going to strip clubs with friends on occasion. Drinking beer and they usually have decent sound systems .. not to mention the women ... in my original post I was speaking more on the side that most strippers I've met through my ex have been very selfish shallow people with a lot of baggage. But again that has been only my experience.

I find nothing wrong with Marilyn's club. I'm a member, actually.


She does what she does very well and I don't see what's wrong with it.
She does it in a Mature Sim, which makes everything acceptable. And if you don't wanna see it, don't go there, like my Twin Artemis Fate said.

You all gave me some rational well thought out arguments but I'm afraid my opinion remains unchanged. Gross & dorky.

+0-

Deja-Vu l think I read the post a year ago.

No No No, we never hunted newbs down, I really want to squash this one ASAP!!! If anyone wandered in the club, or met a newb who wasn't instantly offended, and we got along and they wanted to be in the group, we'd help them along if they were new.

IMPORTANT DISCLAIMER: While the group, Club Vogue has like 50 or so members, all called Dancer, only 5 or 6 girls actually -worked- as Dancers for money.

The rest just wanted Dancer as a title. We were also pretty sctrict about who could dance. We NEVER accepted newbs as 'working' dancers until they were in the game for at least 3 weeks. This was done to DISSUADE girls from dancing. And YES, we actively tried to dissuade girls from dancing for several reasons, such as it's actually work, not play, and there are some people who automatically dislike dancers because of strange pre-conceived predjudice.

We also turned away girls (and sometimes guys with female AV's) who seemed more interested in prostitution than just dancing.

When we say we helped people, it was to give them cash if they were low, help them learn the UI, help them with the tricker AV sliders for their looks, tell them which were our favorite clothing stores, etc.

If anyone thinks we preyed on newbs, I want to hear it face-to-face in game. And they better be ready to back it up with proof, not rumor or gossip.

+0-

LOL you get um Jellin! I got yur back Babe lol! Man i love these forums it sure breaks up my day when im stuck at work and cant login..you guys know how to get a good fight brewin lol. anyway I gotta way in for my girls..I know and love all the girls form Vogue they are ALL some of the sweetest people I have met in SL..and they helped me tremendously when I was first started here..I had no bizness sense whatsoever about SLs consumer demands, best bizness location or anything but I learned a lot from Mari..say whatever u will about my girl but one thing is for sure she is a smart bizness lady. When I was first startin out with tatoos she offered me space in their side shop to sell out of at no charge whatsoever..and often reffered new people to me who were in need of tatto art she offered many suggestions and input on business ideas I had that she felt were good or bad and how to go about them. So say what you will but my girl is got class and style.


"Opinions are like a$$holes ...everyones got one and they all stink"

Thanks D! /kiss

disclaimer: i'm not a member of club vogue.

the post about club vogue waiting around the welcome area to sell newbies into white slavery is totally wrong. i read the article arout Marilyn Murphy and club vogue and thought it sounded like a good friendly group regardless of the whole dancing angle. i checked out the club and talked to Marilyn and some of the other girls and far from shanghaiing me into a life of prostitution she flat out discouraged me from dancing and told me i should wait a couple weeks after joining SL before i decide if i want to be a member of club vogue. of course it's gone now so bad timing on my part lol.

i've never met a single member of club vogue who wasn't nice and friendly and helpful. Marilyn is extremely generous and open to everyone who needs something. i've gotten a lot of pretty nasty propositions from people but i can't remember even hearing a member of club vogue say something off color.

and that whole line about "lesbian sex club" is ridiculous. guys throw around the L word anytime a girl doesn't want to jump in bed with them. and given the quality of a lot of guys online it's no surprise if girls stick with girls.

Hey Darzus,

The side shop was mine, lol, not Mari's.

Anyway, thanks for the vote of confidence.

hello:

i was not going to comment here.

however, so many who know me, or knew the club have said so many nice things it has brought tears of joy. i realize very few know how much work it took, and how many hours of effort went into this endeavor. to learn that it was appreciated and that it was well recieved by so many has filled me with an emotional response so strong, i wonder how we can call this a game.

know this. i was the flashy, loudmouthed front person for a small group of women who made club vogue work. it was my idea, and my design. however, without this support, it never could have been done.

siobhan taylor provided financial assistance for the construction of club vogue and built the club herself. siobhan taylor owned the land immediatly adjacent to the club and maintained a park and lovely surroundings to the club. this provided a pleasant atmosphere for visitors and i spent many happy hours in siobhans park. siobhan taylor started the club vogue group. siobhan taylor built a shop next to the club to give budding entrepreneurs a place to sell their wares.

jellin pico joined club vogue two weeks after it was created. she quickly became the top dancer. she lived at the club and became manager and then later co owner. her many ideas and enthusiastic capable leadership role was indespensable(sp?) to the business. in the last three weeks of its life, when my enthusiasm was not what it needed to be, jellin pico ran club vogue on her own.

siobhan, jellin, i salute you.

when siobhan taylor and jellin pico left club vogue for quieter pursuits i closed the club. aside from some nostalgia, this is a good thing for us all. we had a business model that showed that a club of this nature can survive and prosper in sl. i understand that some who post in this forum would not be pleased to learn this. club vogue was open from mid august to november 11th. it showed a substantial profit every week of its existence. the women who worked in the club never paid the owners a dime to do so. they were allowed to make whatever profit they could from the work with no interference from management, save they were required to meet a few behavioral standards.

to those who know me, and knew club vogue, words cannot express my gratitude for your kind and thoughtful responses in this forum. i know it is totally inadequate, but i thank you.

sincerly:

marilyn murphy

Marilyn,

Thanks for your post... Wow!

Anyway, yes... maybe you were the front for us, but you're the one who made it all work... Your plan, your vision.

It was your club Marilyn... Thanks for letting us be a part of it.

Sio.

Everyone has a right to one's opinion. I do not share your sentiment Jack. I also do not think that we should sanitize a game that is 18+ on the chance that someone *may* be underage.

I just don't get what is so bad about nudity? What is so bad about dancing for money? What is so bad about dancing nude for money?

People have been making money off of their bodies, in one form or another, for a very long time. The first bank in the world was founded by prostitutes.

Juro, as one the "gross and dorky" dancers myself, I agree with you. However, you must admit the world is filled to the brim with people who will go to extreme lengths to find something they can be offended by. They also like to decide what's best for everyone else, and try to get any and all rules changed to conform to their perfect ideals.

Luckily, they're easy to spot.

It's not offended at all, but I find it gross and dorky to do it in a video game. The only people who I think might be "offended" if they learned you were making a game out of it, are people who feel they have no other means to earn money other than exchanging it for sex acts.

I guess it comes down to what gets you out of bed in the morning. You see, I wake up and try to make a difference in the world so that someday NOBODY will _need_ to take their clothes off for money. Someday, people will do it for free if they really want to do it. Nobody will be forced to earn a living this way. The possibility of this future is what shapes my opinion, my views. I'm not going to tell you how to live, or organize petitions to have strip clubs shut down. But I'll sure as heck voice my opinion and sign a petition if someone asks.

Now, I don't know what would drive someone to make a game out of taking off their clothes for money. I really don't want to know either. Because someday, I pray, nobody will have to do it for money and this whole topic will be moot.

woot.

Jack, this is twice in this thread you've referred to the Dancers, ie me, as a prostitute.

I'm going to ask -real- nice that you do not do that again. I will delightfully report that as abuse and harrasment if I see it again. In any thread.

"Jack, please do not refer to me, or the other Dancers as prostitutes. We are not, nor ever were, prostitutes. Implying that we performed sex acts for money is frankly slander and defamation of character based entirely upon gossip and rumor, with no basis in fact. So please, pretty please, shut the hell up."

OK?? Thanks.

ps I couldn't care less what you think of me, Club Vogue, or exotic dancing. I do however, care a great deal about you smearing our, MY, reputations in public with these lies. Someone impressionable may read that and think, "wow, prostitutes, oh look, there's Jellin, she's a hooker, Jack said so" . I won't stand for it Jack. No way

Um, let's drop this. Some people like to take their clothes off for money. Some people don't like people to take their clothes off for money.

So, who's looking forward to turkey tomorrow?

Only if its nude, with cranberries and stuffing.

[/B]

Not to continue a thread that has come to some form of resolution but I would like to say that I have talked with many of the dancers at Club Vogue and they are decent friendly people, just like anyone else =) I consider them friends and find that they are sorely misunderstood by many (at one time I was one of the many).

I'm sure you Jack are a good guy and it looks like you have the best hopes at heart for others which is commendable. Note though, despite that others may not need to dance for money in your future many may still want to.

I rather enjoy these debates on subjects such as this one. I think we as a species (and definitely myself included) have much to learn. Too bad many of us avoid, suppress or just plain ignore subjects such as this. How can we grow if we are afraid to address, understand, and learn from all aspects of living?

I hope everyone has a wonderful Thanksgiving if you celebrate it, if not I hope have a wonderful day anyway