Private dancer

Hurray for sexism! Misogyny and misandry for all!

It's gross. So is eating at Hooters.

Hmm, interesting. Wednesday, what did you find misogynist or misandrist about the "Private Dancer" entry?

Speaking of which, it looks like I mistakenly attributed a quote to the wrong person, in that piece. What I quoted Aesendria Serpentine as saying was actually said by Artemis Fate, who was also present at Marilyn's club. (And lying around nude at the time, too, which would make more sense, to what she said.) My apologies to both for scrambling the attributions like that, especially to Artemis, who offered the cool insight!

What's so gross about this, Jack?

I've been to Mari's club now and then, first of all i'd have to say that one major key to her success is that the Vogue looks bright and friendly from the outside instead of being a tacky black or even worse black/red like SOME clubs.

Also, this isn't such a dark world as an inexperienced reader may think, I've always found the Vogue to be a very low-pressure environment where there's no real social division between employees and clients, it can be a nice place to hang out when there's people.

P.S. : As a warning to some ladies who might be attracted by this interesting social scene, or a ringing endorsement to some, more than likely you -will- get hit on and not by the guys

P.P.S. : You only hate me for saying this because of that ring of truth.

girls getting naked, or showing off their bodies for money is gross. virtual or not.

What's so gross about it?

There are no windows, and it's entirely walled up, so it's not like it's being pushed in your face. So unless you walk in, there's no reason to be grossed out by it.

And to think, that the nude body is such a terrible thing? Hell that sex is such a terrible thing? Ridiculous, our existance is built around sex. Sex, believe it or not, is a fundamental need, just like food or water. They profit off of sex, yes, and the farmer profits off the fact that YOU need to eat, and the Hotel manager profits off the fact that YOU need to sleep. So why not attack them for profiting off needs? Oh, because they're nude, and doing sexual things.

Taboo. Nudity and Sex are Taboo. Well, why is that? Our or bodies that terrible? Is it such a horrible thing to have desires? Society is nice, but unfortunately Society requires that we not be human. Society requires that we not want sex, and not want violence, and not want property and items in general.

*applauds Artemis*

Nice job Artemis.

Even though i'm not into the whole virtual sex thing, I know some of the dancers, i've met them, and they are nice people. I don't think any less of them because they enjoy this, in fact, I applaud them because they have the confidence that they can be so open about it. Just because you think something is gross Jack, doesn't mean that everyone should think it's gross.

I understand that you are entitled to your own opinion, and it's fine to voice it on the forums, but all I ask is that you back up that opinion so we can have a discussion about it, and if you don't want to have a discussion about it, then don't voice that opinion, because there will ALWAYS be someone out there who will disagree, and more often then not, they will back up whatever they say.

P.S. : Great article Hamlet, nice to see you being a true journalist and getting in a lot of the things in second life that may not be completely Apparent to others. Marilyn has worked hard for everything she has, and she deserves this attention.

Ok! I think it's silly, laughable, and in a word, dorky.

Now to back it up.

There's only so much you can do in SL. Limited dance moves, just pressing some keys in time to the music, boring. I just cannot understand at all why you would pay someone to do it. Of course, I come from a text-based background of MUSHes and such, where you can actually get some writing skills and talent into it, and truly vary it each time. It's just not the same here, it's just silly. Kind of like what I've seen people do in DAoC with some of the emotes, but with music.

Woo.

So here's to custom anims, when some talent will really be able to show through. I look forward to seeing what people can do with those... when we finally get them.

Hrm, what about men doing it? Is it still gross then? If so, why didn't you mention that? If not, isn't that a touch sexist?

I assume that by extension you dislike the majority of TV shows and movies, because men and women most assuredly do remove clothing for money in both of those venues

-AP

Yay, let's play "Gotchya!" democrats and republicans alike love that game!

If only I could get someone to pay me for taking my clothes off. Right now I do it for free everyday and no one comes watch me let alone stuff my pants with money. Boo hoo hoo.

It all comes down to a person's ability to suspend disbelief. Anything that's seperate from your immediate reality, be it a game, a novel, a movie, or a strip club relies on suspension of disbelief to entertain. When a man goes to a strip club it's to be treated to a fantasy... a manufactured reality... and while everyone involved never loses sight of the fact that it's fantasy and a game, suspension of disbelief let's them experience something that doesn't really exist. For the guy, that's to be the center of attention of a beautiful and sexually open woman. For someone who wouldn't otherwise ever have that experience it lets them feel like the center of the universe as they'd like to imagine it for a few minutes. The same can be said of any escapist entertainment, especially computer games, and even more especially RPG's. It seems only natural they are merged here. People don't pay Mari and the others to press buttons on a keyboard... they pay for an opportunity to suspend disbelief and feel connected to a fantasy and be the center of somone's attention. Sexual taboos are the only thing that make this different than seeking out someone to hunt with in EQ... after all, isn't your hunting fellow just pushing buttons on a keyboard? How silly

ps: Great post Artemis!

"I'm your private dancer A dancer for money I'll do what you want me to do .. " - Tina Turner

Sorry guys , had some weird 80's flashback .. couldn't pass up the opportunity.

Of course it requires suspension of disbelief. My point is that the amount required in SL, and what you're given to work with onscreen is what makes it silly to me. This is, of course, more the game's fault than anyone doing this, they're working with what they have. It's one of those things that I can understand watching once or playing around with yourself, just to see what people have done, but that's it.

Like I said, when we get custom anims then this can really start to shine. Until then I am going to continue thinking it is really silly.

Well, first off, responding to other comments in this thread, I would just like to say that I am not anti-sex. It would be safe, to say, in fact, that I am strongly pro-sex.

I just found Marilyn's comments somewhat offensive. They seem to imply that if an RL male, even if he was playing as an SL woman could not own a place like Club Vogue without it being necessarily exploitation, and that if an RL female does it, it is not exploitation, by definition.

Also, the line:
"And he showed this to me and he said he thought I could go shopping here-- and I said 'SHOPPING???!!!!'"
Now while I know that there are individual humans who really like shopping, in this context, an article about sex and gender it was very... you know "why don't you little ladies go off to the mall"

Eggy, I will pay you $5 to keep your pants on.

*shaking my head that you had to ask*

the MONEY makes it gross. and the virtualness makes it really, frickin, dorky.

and yeah, tv sux.

Interesting thread. From this girls perspective..

When I first heard about the Club, it was by listening to someone in-world exclaiming how awful it was. I'm not good at adopting others views as my own, so some while later having met a few of the girls elsewhere I was invited along and went.

To be honest I was quite impressed. It is a well run, efficient business - tastefully realised and all concerned seemed to be happy with the arrangements. Just a shame there were no male dancers there.. *lol*

Some have commented that is is somehow ridiculous and silly. Is it any more ridiculous than 20 people on a flying carpet; than selling faerie wings, than (in my case) building a Tudor Pub or than dressing as an enormous pumpkin.

In the context of SL it seems strangely normal and sane to me. There is nothing gross about nudity, humans are beautiful creatures. The fact that there is payment is irrelevent. If I want to see the Mona Lisa, I pay - if I want to see a movie I pay, thats capitalism. If I want to see someone naked *thinks of Johnny Depp*, then show me the credit card slot and I'll pay. Beauty is a valid currency.

..and besides.. if you have the Av for it - why not flaunt it, after all perfection is but a slider or two away.

*girlpower*


...

Jai Nomad

if you think getting naked for money is tastefull, if you can apply the term efficient to a strip club, if you think beauty is currency, if your only complaint about club vogue is the lack of male prostitutes, if you can't tell the difference between a magic carpet ride and a strip show, then good for you. golf clap.

like it or not there are MINORS in secondlife. it's gross & tacky and I don't like it.

*giuliani for prez*

Yes, I think it can be. It might not fit with your idea of morals, but we will all have a different view on that I'm sure. Lol.



*stares at dictionary*
Yes, I really think I can.



Hmm.. we all have our own stance on these things Jack, and I am merely offering mine. I applaud that you have offered yours too. I am an adult, I joined an Adult game, if I then venture into a clearly marked Adult Area, I kinda expect that I might see something Adult oriented. Perhaps you should avoid these areas during your SL experience, I would not like to think that anyone is being offended unnecessarily.




I am a British girl. I have no idea what that means. Does this giuliani person dislike nudity too?

Any minors who have access to the Internet have access to boatloads of material far more prurient and explicit than anything you could see at Club Vogue. Frankly, I think that a horny teen would find the Club either boring (the girls aren't sufficiently anatomically correct, or sufficiently slutty) or frustrating (after they got ejected and banned for bad behavior).

And for the record, "dancer" is not synonymous with "prostitute".

Why must everything be sanatized and dumbed down to be "safe" for one person's "morals" at the expense of another's? Guliani took a wonderfully surreal and tacky bit of americana (the times square red light district) and turned it into a disneyized wasteland of vanilla consumerism (while at the same time cheating on his wife... that hardly qualifies him to force his "morals" on me).

I've had two very good friends (and many more acquaintances) who work as strippers in RL and have spent plenty of time hanging out with them at the club where they work. I've had lots of experience observing how the RL game is played. Both of these women are highly intelligent, free spirited, honest, beautiful people, with a highly evolved comfort level with their own sexuality. When I watch them make a lonely man feel like the center of the universe for a while, it's impossible to see them as anything other than kind. In my personal opinion, an inability to live and let live is far more gross and tacky.

While I vehemently support your right to hold such opinions, I am at the same time very thankful you are among a very small minority

-AP