Thread about War and "Political Parties"

Oh for crying out loud.

I was talking about this:

http://secondlife.com/commerce/

I was emailed by LL to respond to a questionnaire because I have a moderately successful business. That is why I have a profile on the website.

I am on this page:

https://secondlife.com/community/index.php

Because I was at the Waterhead telehub when Bub was taking pictures. No special favors, no special merit, no FIC. As you can see in the background, there were a number of other people there too. I had no idea I would be featured in the photo until the new webpage went up. Yay me. (twirls finger in the air)

If it would complete your soul to be pictured on the website, talk to Bub and get on the Bub's Supermodels group. He'll send out an IM when he needs people to show up for a photo. It's that simple. Quit your crying already. Sheesh.

That's what I meant. More things for more people to be in.

Who is Bub?

coco

If you could possibly kindly RECALL, Kim Anubis, I wasn't hassling any fricking people. I was proposing a new group, for Equal Opportunity for Everyone.

More ways for people to be involved in order to STOP the appearance of favoritism.

YOU are though. If you want to cull this thread for who is nastiest to who, look at your own posts.

coco

Bub Linden. He makes the website look pretty.

Unless they could feature every person in SL it will never be possible to avoid any appearance of favoritism. There will always be a certain percentage of people who will preceive it that way no matter what the actual truth of it is. Even if it was a random lottery there'd be people claiming it was fixed.

What's so wrong with LL's marketing department wanting to highlight success? Having the tools and opportunity to achieve it is one of SL's biggest selling points. It's not about stroking the egos of the people who are featured. It's about showing things likely to appeal to people considering signing up.

About equal opportunity and fairness... check out Storma Amarula. She's only been here a couple of months and she's already in the top ten for net worth, achieved purely through her kick ass talent. That's the kind of thing they're highlighting... that people with imagination, talent, and drive can put them to use here and reap rewards.

You know, I just looked over my posts in this thread. ONLY my posts. My thinking from one topic, to the next topic, and then my realizing the two were getting confused, and I remembered, then, the point at which I started getting irritated, about the time when the ideas were dismissed out of hand on the theory that they arose from jealousy.

I had essentially two ideas (and anyone who doubts that is welcome to scan over all my posts previous to this one):

. A group that would ensure that minority positions got good air time, and that everyone had equal access to the fun things the Lindens had to offer. Including pictures on the website. (Which, unfornately, devolved entirely into those pictures as sort of the test case issue in terms of this conversation.)

. A way we could band together to make the forums a more civil place.

The first sort of thinking was a direct way in which we could ensure that smaller groups were well represented and that there WAS no appearance of favoritism, which, if you think about it, means that is a way of making sure ideas about the FIC die.

The second was a way we could get along better, so that people would consider the forums a friendly, rather than a hostile place.

Both these were good faith intentions to improve things.

If you look at other people's posts in this thread, they revolve too much around saying, "You're just jealous. Stop crying, crybaby. I've wasted enough time on you." As well as various little games and side jokes.

This is why nothing will get done here. The only thing that gets done around here is people attribute false motivations to an individul, and insult their intelligence.

I guess you believe there is no such problem as appearances of favoritism, and there is no problem with the tone of civility in these forums.

That's fine. The problem comes in when you have to translate it into all these personal terms, generally based on assumptions, including such things as I want my OWN picture on the web page; or my views of game problems stem entirely from my own personal lack of creativity and ability.

I daresay if the right person suggested new ideas for rotating pictures, or whatever, that you would think that was the hottest thing since sliced bread.

coco

Chip, I saw your picture in the real people pics in the gallery - so many of them, I'm only part-way through. You look just a whole lot like an old boyfriend of mine! I think I'll post my own pic there, once I manage to get it off the downstairs computer. I'm kinda worried, though - other posters might be traumatized for life when they see this sick little vile creature all green with envy and meanness and everything.

I do appreciate your discussing this with me, though, Chip, and the others who have.

There is nothing wrong with highlighting success. I would do that too, of course. The problem is appearances of favoritism, when the same people are always the ones popping up everywhere. It would be better PR if the powers-that-be would dig around a little and give more people a chance to be featured, or even run a little contest - little things can mean a lot.

coco

Chip,

I have to concur with Coco on this one on some levels. When the new web site came out, I groaned when I saw they picked a group of people that included some that have been highlighted in many other ways already- in the newsletter, on previous versions of the site, etc. Is there anything wrong with spotlighting the same people again? Yes, honestly there is - and it is no slight to anyone featured to say so. Like it or not, it does give the appearance of favoritism. There are lots of people representative of success in SL in all aspects of it. I would say the same thing if my profile had been featured, as I am already in the spotlight because of my site. It's about being a bit more inclusive, I suppose - SL is extremely diverse, and should not always be represented by the same group of people all the time.

"You're hassling the wrong people, and it's both rude and misdirected. Stop harassing people on the forums and go ask a Linden."

P.S. One of the problems of being a patient person is you often tend to do a slow burn. Go off, put laundry in, thinking about it.

And then you realize you started the thread yourself, so how the hell do you get accused of hassling people and being rude? Not to mention being a crybaby and all that. Being jealous and untalented and petty.

I didn't INTEND TO ASK A LINDEN. I intended to discuss this with others.

Now, if you don't like that, kindly take your insults and personal comments and opinions of me to some other thread someone else started. And that goes for everyone. Either discuss this with me politely or get the hell out of my thread.

It's bad enough when I can't say anything in General, but to start my own innocuous ideas in the proper forum for them, and then to have people come in here accusing me of being a HORRIBLE INDIVIDUAL WHICH I AM NOT -

- well, what can I say. It's unfair. Let me talk someplace, please, without all the personal attacks. I am a player of this game, too.

coco

I think we need more "burn the featurati" threads like this. It's productive and fun to bash players for decisions that the Lindens themselves have made. It's important to be on the website. How can you possibly enjoy SL if you're not? You'd be a nobody!

Coco, a sarcastic, disbelieving tone makes discussion exasperating, especially when it's the tone of responses to explanations made with care and in good faith. That's why I got fed up. I'll note that I didn't call you a crybaby, jealous, untalented, or petty. I do think some of your posts have been rude.

I understand you feel you were put through the wringer by certain posters on this site. However, it's a mistake to see interactions on this site as a war between two factions. The existence of such a "war" was the initial premise of this thread. It includes your attempt to formalize this supposed war and give the different sides names -- it's a declaration of hostilities. There are also implications as to who's on the Them side. The whole setup was antagonistic from the start. The fact that anything good at all might come from a thread launched with such a premise illustrates the remarkable kindness and patience of certain members of this community (I think April deserves a pat on the back and a halo).

I'm sorry some unpleasant experiences you've had with a few posters on this site have made you view yourself as a member of a warring faction. The thing is, there isn't a war, and there aren't two sides, and it's frustrating as heck to try to have a normal conversation with someone who sees everything from that viewpoint. I felt like you might already view me as one of the opposition before I even posted. I figured if I disagreed with you that you'd almost certainly decide I was on the other side. I feel that everything I post is colored by your view of this bipartisan struggle and which side you think I'm on. It makes conversation with you daunting, and often frustrating. Even when I have taken great care to plainly and carefully explain something in a nonantagonistic way, I perceived the response to be sarcastic and disbelieving. I really tried, and that's what I got in response, and it was frustrating and irritating.

Anyway, I'm sorry you aren't having fun on the forums, Coco. I hope you feel better soon. I also hope that, with time, you begin to see that although some people here did call you an alt and give you a hard time, there's no established army against which you must war. I don't think trying to formalize or encourage a war or bipartisan opposing Us versus Them on this site is a good idea. I think it's divisive and destructive. Instead of trying to form an opposition group, I'd rather see discussion between individuals. Dunno . . . I said what I have to say, and I can't think up a nice closing line.

Coco, do you not see the irony in what I quoted? You complain that people are making assumptions about your opinion and then in your next paragraph you do exactly the same thing. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

I'm not saying that the appearance of favoritism isn't a problem. I'm saying that it's completely unavoidable due to the nature of what we're talking about. There are only so many profile spots and the Lindens only have so much time to spend changing them out.

Why must you always assume that every time someone disagrees with you that it's some kind of insult or attack? It makes it difficult to have a reasoned exchange or ideas.

I don't disagree with that, Cris. I just stop short of believing that it actually is favoritism. I think it has more to do with LL's marketing department coming up with the idea for the profiles and then taking the path of least resistance to get the first round of them done. They went with known quantities. I get the impression that marketing doesn't have time to be deeply involved with in-world activities so the people who make it on their radar tend to already be well known. I can't fault them for that and it has nothing to do with me being one of the people profiled. I don't think it's fair to characterize it one way or another until they've gone through a few rounds of profiles, and I also doubt having them change often is very high on their priority list. The website simply isn't made to appeal to people who are already SL residents so I think it's unrealistic to judge it on those standards.

Where, oh where, did I say it was actually favoritism?

Anyway, as I think I said earlier in this thread, I don't care about this topic anymore. Either of them, actually.

coco

Still reading, but wanted to address this question.

Actually, everyone does have a chance to be on the pages. The information about it is in the Announcements forum:



Found here: /3/ad/21614/1.html

I am certain that Marcus Forsetti suppressed that information.

Thanks for posting that Pen.

I've been brooding over this thread, Coco.

Been rereading and all that. I do see that my early posts in the thread were sarcastic. Why? Because I don't believe in the FIC thing and I think perpetuating it is destructive. Also, as I said, I was pretty sure you'd mark me down as a member of Them. As well, this thread does not exist in a vaccuum. The second I open a new thread, I don't suddenly forget everything ever posted in other threads. And I'm afraid, Coco, that my general impression of your posts lately has been that they've been really negative, and the nature or target of that negativity informed my view of this thread. The thread felt, to me, like an attack on the community, and perhaps even (as a suspected FIC) on myself, and that's why I was less than pleasant.

Later in the thread, I put aside my feelings about that and posted unguardedly and without sarcasm. It seemed to me you had an incorrect impression about something and it was bothering you, and I thought maybe by explaining I could help. My initial feelings about the thread aside, I could see you weren't just horsing around and that you felt bad (I mean, it's obvious from your recent posts, Coco). Reading your posts on this site and elsewhere . . . I felt bad for you, even if you wrongly think I'm some sort of FIC (or Seattle Seahawk or Flaming Iguana or Democrat, or whatever you want to call it). So I did my best to rein in my own defensiveness and give you answers in this thread. I suppose at that point it was probably too late.

Not too late just in this thread. I know you had a rough time when you were new here. I also know it it's been no party to see a friend of yours in a big flamewar on the forums and finally banned. I can understand how that would make you feel cynical about the community here. However, I have the impression that your view of the entire community is colored by negative experiences with relatively few members of the community. And that imparts a negative tone to a lot of your posts, which makes others respond negatively. It's a vicious cycle, and I hate to see it. I wish it would stop.

I'm sorry I posted sarcastically in this thread. I hope you understand what I am saying here.

Very good find, Pendari! That was before my time, but it is exactly the sort of thing I was talking about. Could be it's time to do it again, or could be it didn't work the first time around, cause who knows who all sent in pictures? And I would like to see that approach taken as much as possible, even if they have to go out and round up regular people, like I have to do for my articles.

Anyway I am pleased to see that that approach has been taken, and imagine it might mean it gets taken again in future, and hopefully over more things.

Must not have been such a horrid idea after all, if the Lindens thought of it first.

Kim, I did notice that your earlier post seemed to be an extension to me, in good faith, and I was writing an answer to it when the phone rang, and then several other things happened, and I just now got back to the computer.

In any case, I thank you for giving so much thought to this, and for reaching out to me the way you have.

coco

In fact, I'll just go ahead and erase this second version, too, of the apparent double post.

As far as I know Cocoanut, that offer has never been taken away. Of course, stuff like that gets buried in the announcement forums and can be hard for new people to find. I'm a searchaholic, hehe. So I would personally refer anyone to that post if they had the same question.

I think it would be nice to have the SL "FAQ" page updated with these sorts of items. Whenever they are added. But only for the "permanent" items. And of course as things change items would need to be removed. But it would be nice for these "specials" to live someplace that they would not get so easily buried.

why don't you ask the lindens how to get on the pages in the hotline forum instead of throwing wild conjecture and red herrings around?

Yes it would be nice if those things were easier to find, Pen.

I've got a suggestion for you and your red herrings, too, StoneSelf.

coco