Government in SL Discussion Group formed

I have formed a group for the discussion of government in SL. Proponents and oponents of this idea are both welcome to join. This is a open join group, no invitation is needed. Creation of this group and the creation of a customer generated forum for a special interest such as this is consistent with the idea that content in Second Life is to be created by the customers.

I don't have anymore group slots available. Can I participate without joining the in-game group?

-Ghoti

Link please! I can't seem to find it.

On the topic of a new official government forum for specifically discussing political science (government) within SL, it seems like there is support for either integrating it with Land and Economy or creating a separate group.


In this thread in General it shows that 40% of people are for a dedicated forum and 60% are against. It's interesting to note that a large percentage (47%) do not want to see a dedicated forum as it might "legitimize government in SL." This is precisely why I'd like to have a dedicated forum. It makes it impossible to have a conversation on the topic in the General forums.

Someone suggested adding governmental discussions to the Land and Economy forum. I created a poll there as well and received a much warmer reception with 46% agreeing it was a logical fit, 29% wanting a separate dedicated forum, and 25% wanting discussions to remain in General. Additionally, it was also suggested using "Political Science" ("Polysci" for short) instead of the word "Government".

My personal recommendation is either "Land, Economy, and Political Science", "Land, Economy, and Government" or a dedicated "Political Science" subtopic in that order. In the meantime I'd like to check out the forum you created.

~Ulrika~

The group exists and can be joined, open admission, no invitation needed.

I sent a message to Jeska Linden, who appears to be the Linden who moderates the forums, asking to have a forum created, and have received no response.

I have a post in the Hotline to Lindens forums asking if it possible to have a group forum be moderated by the regular Linden employee who moderates the offical forums. I have been led to think that people are reluctant to participate in a Group forum because there a customer with forum moderator powers who can bias the moderation so as to promote their views. I am hoping that an exception might be made in order to provide a fair and impartial moderation limited to abiding by strictly interpreted PG language standards and compliance with the CS and TOS with strict enforcement of the forum guidelines barring personal attacks and full enforcement of the penalties described in the Discipline section of the forum guidelines for failure to abide by proper standards of conduct in the forum.

A Group created Government in SL Discussion forum would appear in the normal place along with the other customer created special interest group forums, and not have any presence on the main forum page.

Are you saying this would be a group with its own forum dedicated to discussing government?

While I appreciate the effort, this is in my opinion suboptimal. I would like to see the topic integrated into the official SL forum hierarchy, preferably near or with Land and Economy. I feel that creating a squirreled away Government group discussion forum could actually derail this effort.

Would you be willing to contact Jeska and instead support a formal subtopic? I think the time is right, especially after the results from the Land and Economy poll posted above.

~Ulrika~

doing this would open a floodgate for listings in the forums.... would there be one for FIC discussion, av sex discussion? The list could go on forever.

I strongly oppose the creation of a forum of the same status as Building, Scripting Tips, etc. on the topic "Government". I do not want to see the word government on the forum main page. Second Life has reached it's currrent high state of development without a high level forum for discussion of government, so the evidence to date suggests that such a thing is not needed. Toy LaFollete is exactly correct, if those with a special interest in "Government in SL" get their own high level forum then others with special interests would have every reason to expect get equal treatment.

The desire to discuss the need for or the lack of need for government in SL is a special interest limited to a subset of Second Life customers. Second Life already has a means for subsets of the customer base with common interests to mingle and talk: they form an inworld Group and get a Group Forum that appears with the other Group forums where it belongs.

The Government in SL Discusssion group is already formed. I will send additional messages to some other Linden employess to make sure that my request for the creation of a forum is being processed expeditiously.

I disagree with you completely. There are excellent reasons (and support) for integrating "Political Science" ("Polysci" with the Land and Economy forum. The direction that our project is taking (partial privatization) and the appearance of themed sims as business models suggest that there is a link.

Charging ahead without discussion or consensus from those with an interest in the topic is an excellent way to alienate yourself and your group. Given that I create or drive the vast majority of discussions on political science, don't you think that my absence from your group would be conspicuous?

Please PM me so we can discuss this offline, if you'd like. This topic is dear to my heart and I don't want it derailed by someone who's interested in sticking it in a glove box.

~Ulrika~

FIC already has one. It's just not visible to everybody.

I would hardly call the general forum a 'glovebox'. Dont you understand what a floodgate this would open? Showing preferental treament to one group of people over the whole seems against what you seem to want a SL government to be.

I see absolutely no reason why there should be a government forum. The majority of residents do not want player run government so i fail to see the need for a separate forum. Nor do i want to see it in the Land etc forum. Totally agree with Suzanne's last post.

Why is N'berg not enough for you Ulrika? Is it because you are not in charge? I suspect so.

Alexa

Toy, thank goodness someone else sees what is going on here. Some people want to replace the Linden dictatorship (which I support via my Visa card every month) with their own form of dictatorship. This stupid ass forum idea is the first step. It should be squashed immediately. The idea of a group is wonderful. If anyone wants to discuss theology, ideology or any other ology, this is a great idea. But, that should be the extent of it.

Ghoti, cetainly you may participate in the forum as soon as the Linden forum administrators create it.

I would like to make it clear that I have no desire for my group to be used to discuss real world politics in any shape or form. The only subject it has been made to discuss is the concept of "Government in SL".

The exact name of the group is "Government in SL Discussion Group".

The charter reads:
The purpose of this group is to create an open dedicated forum for discussion of the pro's and con's of government in SL. Supporters and opponents are welcome to join the group"

Jeska Linden just informed me that I need to have 15 members in order to have a forum for the "Government in SL Discussion Group".


In case people are confused, I don't want to have a Government Forum like the Building, Scripting, Design, etc. Those forums are for people to discuss questions about things which are essential to SL and which already exist. There is no player government is Second Life, and Second Life is growing and thriving, and there is no need for a forum to discuss something which does not exist and is not needed.


Joing this group will help to establish a forum that does not have to be seen unless you click on the group forums link. A long term proponent of goverment in Sl wants everyone to have to see the word Government everytime they look at the main forum page. Joining my group helps to thwart that goal.

I understand now. At first I just thought this was a misguided attempt to help me. I see now that your purpose for creating a governmental discussion group and forum is to thwart the formalization of political science within SL. Even worse is that you are attempting to censor not just its discussion but its very existence by controlling its visibility.

It's ironic that you choose to impede the discussion and existence of political science by using disingenuous political maneuvering.

It's ironic and satisfying, as it's exactly the reason why I set forth to form a government in SL in the first place -- to prevent hostile groups from taking away an individual's right to free speech and assembly. I will continue to work for free speech within this forum and the right for all members of SL to assemble as they see fit.

~Ulrika~

Perhaps it was your own perception as to what Suezanne was doing, it was quite clear to me.
It has nothing whatsoever to do with removing rights. I has everything to do with what is truely needed in SL. I would ask if your working for free speech in the forums why do you wish to have government to have its own forum? Seems a mite illogical to me. But all governments are basically illogical.

I have four members now, I need 11 more people to join my group who want to provide a place for discussion of the pros and cons of Government in SL in the special interest group forums off of the main page instead of having a government forum being positioned as if it was as essential as the forums for Building, Scripting, Design, Animation, Feature Feedback, etc.

And thanks to those who have joined! I don't know if you would like me to mention your names, but if you want to make your name known just post a response in this thread.

I have convened a committee to determine whether there should be a government in SL discussion forum on the LL website. We will be holding closed balloting for committee chairperson, secretary and LL liaison. You should have all received ballots; please ensure that they are returned by the due date or your vote shall be used by the committee forming panel as a proxy vote.

I have not received my ballot yet. Who did you say I had to vote for again?

Join the club and talk about the need of or lack of need for government in SL , and try to figure out just what that phrase means.

What is your opinion on governments in Second Life, Suez?

Why the choice of the Circle A symbol for forum avatar? I associate that with young people who think freedom means putting grafiti on buildings. You seem to be saying that you want to keep a government forum from being seen? Doesn't that seem to be a supressing people free speech?

Put me down as a member Suezanne, please.

Thanks

Alexa

did you really think the goal was something else? the timing and the author of this thread was just too coincidental.

polysci does not need a forum. the entire forum is political. government does need it's own forum (i think land economy is a good makeshift fit) for players to discuss community and zoning systems that have worked for them and have not etc.

i don't want to join a group moderated by a player to discuss regional community administration etc just to protect people from their paranoid sensibilities. perhaps let us look at what range of discussion this forum is to cover and then find a name for it.

furthermore, the purpose of the group, to discuss pros and cons, is of no interest to me.

i want a forum where players can publically discuss governments in sl that have been tried could be tried, have worked, haven't worked, could work, wouldn't work, and why, and to seek and organize new regions and communities

i don't know about you discussing pros and cons without action is a waste of my time. thanks anyway.

Creating a group forum is not censorship.

Group forums provide the exact same means of communication as a Linden sanctioned forum for discussion between those interested in a particular subject.

Censorship is a suppression of free speech performed by governments throughout the world from the time of the creation of the first governement until now.

Did the founder of "Leftists, Liberals and Lunatics" do so in order to censor speech?

Was the formation of the "Neualtenburg Projekt" group forum an act of censorship?

Have the rights of the members of the "D&D Dog Owners" group to discuss their purchases been surpressed through threats of the use of force by the creation of the forum of that name, or have they been enabled to do so?

I have asked the Lindens to take over moderation of my Government in SL Discussion Group forum (if I can get the fifteen members needed to get one created) specifically in order to eliminate charges of ideological bias in the moderation of the group forum. I doubt they will, their resources are limited and there is nothing in for them. I would not agree to my request if I were in their position.

A person wanting to create a discussion group advcating methods of protecting individual rights could come up with a more sensible name than "Government". That is sort of like trying to create a group advocating methods of protecting chickens called "Foxes" or a group dedicated to the protection of mice called "Cats. "

To call a group dedicated to the discussion of means of protecting individual rights a "Government" group is quite a silly idea. Many people hearing the word "government" would think of lying politicians stealing worker's hard earned money, fomenting war and divisiveness in the population to divert people from the true source of their oppression, and of special interest groups such as the movement to suppress the rights of gay people to enter into marriages, or big business working hand and glove with government to suppress competition and free trade. The reason people would think of governments as enemies of freedom and tools used by those with special agendas of hatred and greed they wish to impose on the world at large is not hard to understand: that is what governments always have been and always will be. It is in the nature of governments to seize, control, and destroy, it is their heart and soul, their reason to exist.

A group dedicated to the purpose of protecting customer's individual rights woud more logically be called "Protecting Customer's Individual Rights".