a suggestion about that bush guy

Well the bush guy issue is very much the hot topic of the day, and I can certainly appreciate Linden’s dilemma with the entire thing. While on the one hand, just getting rid of the guy’s signs would be an instant relief for all, Linden then opens the Pandora’s box of, I hesitate to say, totalitarian rule. On the other hand I fully believe in the guys right to freely express himself (since he is not trying to sell in real world product, only express a view), though he has become a plague on the general happiness of his fellow Second Lifers. So if I may, I would like to make two suggestions to Linden Labs that might solve the problem for everyone.

Suggestion 1 (the easy fix):
I noticed the other day that Linden has a sim set up for charity drives and the like. Would it not be a good idea to set up a “Free Speech” sim for political viewpoints and rallies? Here one could say use land for a week to place political signs, or rent the sim for a day to hold a rally. Of course this would put Linden in the awkward position of making calls on what kind of rally is OK and what kind is not, but ultimately that kind of call should never be made. Pro Choicers and Pro Lifers, pro and anti Bush supporters, (I really hesitate to say this next one) KKK members and Black panthers. ALL should be welcome to state there point and express there view in this kind of sim.

Suggestion 2 (the hard fix):
Has Linden considered expanding their zoning beyond PG and Mature? Our first life is not that black and white, and our second life should not be either. Expand zones to such things as commercial PG and M, residential PG and M, political PG and M, advertising PG and M. You can mix and match the categories so that when some one moves into a sim, they no just where they are going to. The bush guy could have his own HQ (though it doesn’t seem that he wants to), along with all the other groups mentioned above. This way Linden can say, “well of course they can do that, but only in these sims!”

Any way, I hope these suggestions help. I’m going to cross post this because I would like to see what the residents have to say.

GOOD LUCK LINDE!!!
Love,
A.I.

Hello, 85 and 86.

Sounds too much like RL "free speech zones" set up to keep protesters at a "safe" distance from gatherings that might draw advocates of one cause or the other. One of the beautiful things about SL is that they don't exist yet.

And maybe I'm wrong, but who is going to visit an area zoned "advertising"? Seems counterproductive to advertise there.

Well, I think some mirroring of real life is inevitable. Free Speech zones are in a way a dividing tool (I don’t really like that suggestion); it was as I said just an easy fix. Easy fixes are rarely popular fixes. As for the second suggestion, I didn’t mean that you would have a sim devoted to just advertising, but rather you could ban or not ban that as well as banning or not banning commercial, residential, etc. I should have made that clearer. Though I agree in its way that is just a dividing tool as well, it is ment to be a way to give land more versatility while still having set rules.
Honestly I’m a Burner (of burning man) and am of the full belief that every one should be allowed to do what they want on there own land. But ultimately the masses will not adhere to that (never have), as all the “we hate the bush guy” people show. Unfortunately as second life gets bigger and bigger, these real world institutions like zoning will become more of a necessity. This is not an ideal view, but 100000 people will not all get along all the time, and the creation of zones for like minds will help solve a lot of that problem.

As an example from my own experience, I bought some water property in atlas and preceded to create this UFO crash scene in the harbor I owned that was adjacent to some businesses. Well the next day I come and find that one of the businesses (a space craft business I should add) has but up a giant screen around the harbor and has banned me from there land. Now in reality, a nice IM asking me to remove the instillation would have been all I needed (I removed it anyway with out him asking), and sent him an apology with an offer to sell him the harbor for like L$ 0.30 a square meter. I still have not heard back from him. It does not really bother me that I was banned from his land, rather I am bothered by the lack of communication. But this just goes to show that a simple dislike of my lame humor can set some one off without warning.

But maybe I should back off the idea, for I guess there is always organic growth within human dynamics (even virtual ones). Maybe I have not found my place in the community yet (maybe I don’t want to , and just though that if for nothing else, suggestions like number two would help new people out immensely. But maybe they should be on their own. Who wants their hand held through this second life any way?
Love,
A.I.

How about the Lindens just ignore any of his abuse reports leaving the guy open to acts of violence?

The truth is what this guy is doing is graffitti...and ugly at that. I'm not down for Bush but I'm not down for someone cheapening my personal experiences and not being able to do anything about it.

If someone does something offensive to me I ask them not to a few times and if that doesn't work I find means to make the issue go away myself. I start with laws and go from there.

Now obviously the law in this case (Lindens) are trapped by their own laws and unable to act...SO you gotta handle things yourself.

Since the Lindens seem unable to act on reports against this guy and his vandalism then they should choose to be unable to act on that guy's future abuse reports for actions that may be taken against him personally.

I don't plan on doing anything because frankly there are no visible Impeach Bush signs around my property, but when shopping I saw plenty that led me to not purchase otherwise prime land.

This guy is lowering the property value in many good areas.

Semper Fly

If it looks like shit and smells like shit then it must be shit. The Linden's just need to make the decision and pull the signs down. Why they don't is beyond me. They remove threads and ban people from the forums for less.

Here is the simplest and surest way to be rid of any land extortionist and his signs: Don't buy his land. Boycotts can be very effective and are better than silencing speech.

The end.

OR- we just wait till Bush's term is over.

Everytime I see those dumb signs I keep wondering what happens then.

Will Second Life still be around by that point or will we had done something to bring the powers that be down on us (collective we, of course, no one in this forum)?

The bush guy has been asked what he'll do if they WERE to impeach bush? He said doesn't matter, the signs will stay.

So either he's a sociologist, a lawyer experimenting, or he has interest in directly affecting land values (maybe moving people toward private islands?).

The crux of the matter is whether this guy believes in what he's saying, or whether it is simply a tool for land extortion.

If it is just a matter of extortion he should be removed immediately.

If he is genuinely a political activist, more power. He is inarguably getting his position heard.

"I'm not down for Bush but I'm not down for someone cheapening my personal experiences and not being able to do anything about it."

Good thing you weren't in Baghdad at the time of Bush's Shock and Awe campaign.

I think the problem here is the "where one person's rights end is where someone else's begin" point.

A point which, like land boundaries these days, seems abitrary.

While I agree with the message (indeed, I'd like to see them all to "Send Bush hunting with Cheney", I disagree with the method.

There's nothing so irritating as soaring along and being mowed down by a sign that just loaded because it was lagged by all the other signs 5 feet from it.

THe point is to make the message seen to people who don't agree, not to make the message irritating to people who do agree. If this person had his head in the right place, he'd be networking the inhabitants of various islands to display the signs as a texture on a wall or the roof of their homes and stores, where it's always seen but not in the way and not causing lag. That's both a more effective method and a test of personal dedication, since it doesn't hurt anyone and it takes real effort. Just spawning a bunch of signs in people's way makes you seem like one person who is loud and annoying, not a whole lot of people who share a logical opinion.

to take a real worls analogy, if i decide to tag my house wall, i think you have nothing to say about it

could you all stopping talking about the bush guy? its getting annoying

I agree! The bush guy and his signs by far doesn't annoye me as much as all the chatter going on about it. I have my own theory about the guy (which might be totally wrong) which brings a bit fat grin on my face whenever I read his name.

This is my first and last posting regarding the "bush guy".

With you your postings, threads and endless discussion you giving the Bush Guy what he wants. Attention!

Let this thread and all the other 86 threads die. Dont recognize the stupid bush sign, dont give him the power he wants. Without attention and reconization he will stop planting this signs.

LL cant and wont do anything against it. We all player of SL have the power to ruin the bush guys fun.

Nah, it's just extortion business. I still have a 16 sqm plot next to me for sale at L$ 5000



LL could do many things, but chose not to. Seems one person's griefing needs are more important than many thousands's enjoyment of SL.

Of course, there is a real-world anology in this already in the form of political signs - the main difference being that many states and municipalities limit the placement of them on public land to within a certain time frame around the election. (in the U.S., anyway - not sure how it's handled elsewhere)

This encourages people not to place signs on their own yards all the time, which of course they are free to do.

Perhaps SL could take some adaption of that, since there have been adaptions of real-world signs/billboarding. Not quite sure how it'd best be implemented - I'll leave that to better SL minds than mine.

Heres my first and last post regarding the matter:

"Impeach the Bush guy" signs!



And yea, I truly believe he is just using these signs as extortion tools. If you want his ugly signs removed you have to pay his exhorbitant land price. Simple, and the guy is getting rich from people doing just that. So, as previously stated, refuse to buy his land, maybe he will eventually go away.....I doubt it tho.

I also doubt that LL will ever do anything about it. At least he uses a blue background, maybe that is an attempt to calm us a little when we knock into his signs!

if i remember some land barons used the same technic to make you move

it wasn't wrong before, it hasn't changed

Happy Birthday Kyrah!

Oh, and as for suggestion #1, noooo please no "free speech zones." They are a shocking slap in the face to free speech principles in RL and would be the same in SL. It's ridiculous for people in political power to land in a city or town and say, "Yes you can protest, we have fenced in a vacant lot the other side of town, you can stand in that enclosure where we hope no one sees you."

Both major political parties in the US have stooped to it and it makes me sick.

Responses in the Land Maintenance forum to people complaining of content they don't like on adjacent properties seems a pretty consistent LL response of "if it violates TOS then report abuse."

Calling for the ouster of a political figure isn't against TOS as long as it isn't vulgar or violent AFAIK.

This being a game where money gives advantage it would not surprise me if a majority of folks in SL are conservative and/or supporters of W. Has anyone ever done a political survey here?

If someone had a little postage stamp of land and put a sign I didn't want to see, I'd block it with a reflective panel or something. I'm a noob, but stands to reason whoever puts up a sign owns the land it sits on.

You know... the more people I see posting that they want to limit the free speech of another person... the more I want to make some of my own anti-bush signs and start plastering the world with them.

I've yet to post on the forums, especially on this topic, but I'd like to add my .02.

I believe in the freedom to express your views...unless it becomes a matter of infringing on peoples' 2L experience, which some (probably a lot) are paying for a premium account as well as land use fees, and I'm guessing they do /not/ want these signs popping up near their property. There are those that keep drawing parallels to rl situations of free speech etc...but speaking for myself, I come to 2L to get away from the real world and I don't want my experience cheapened by someone who, in my humble opinion, is abusing the power to influence property values. In other games (I know 2L isn't a game, bear with me), people like this are known as "griefers", and they get dealt with, or banned, or whatever. While I love the freedom that 2L offers as far as creativity and expression, I don't think someone has the right to grief people under the guise of making a statement.

This is my first post, be gentle

Agreed.

The point that I've tried to make is that RL politics have no place in SL, just like RL advertising has no place in SL. Maybe it's a moot point, because as soon as we start enforcing those rules, people will put up trash that doesn't violate the rules. Even so, I maintain that the Bush signs are a specific example of blatant abuse. And I don't see that banning them specifically would have any adverse effect on SL or LL.

I've recently moved to a privately-owned island, which is quite pleasant. So I don't mind as much anymore.

thats debated, and open to individual view. To me, SL is a huge open ended rpg. That and it fits the American Heritage Dictionay's definition of game..