Notice: SL developers' meeting log

Yep, yep and that goes same in SL too...so be careful copying IM's or Chat and posting them w/o consent.

Next time get a consent form...even make a timestamp prim that people can touch and create an in-world contract (I have these and other contracts for free use if you need them in-world, join the group Free Culture and learn more on this subject too).

Also you can create notecards that everyone can sign and take it Democrasy Island and notarize it using Zarf's pay machine...maybe this all seems like a pain, but it beats having your thread deleted doesn't it? And in the long run these protections are for your own good and making an exception to the rule would create havoc and allow abuses beyond posting chat in a thread.

~ A few things to ponder I reckon... ~

-Calix

I just consider this whole thing unimportant and move on.

Hehe we were too busy gettin shit done

or me either . Or any of the Creju team . That having been said, I think the best thing about SL is its diversity and community...and I don't think patting yourself on the head and setting up secret groups really promote either of those.
Cali

Stakeholders vs. Mere tourists

I have a really cool stake, I call him Mr Pointy.

It's also interesting, to me anyways, that noone from the infoNet was contacted.

Especially since Squagmire's company, Gnat Technologies, is a real world business.

I also find it interesting that you mentioned the Herald and the Messenger, but not the infoNet FreePress... InfoHub coverage (plus over 1000 private terminals) not good enough, Hiro?

Overall... I like the idea of getting the developers together to try to move things forward, and though it seems the idea got off to a rocky start I hope it does work for the benefit of ALL of Second Life and not just a select few residents.

Mmmmm steeeeaaaak.

sorry, it must be lunch time.


Press was intentionally not made aware of the meeting ahead of time so that it could happen quietly and then be announced afterward. But that being said, I wasn't even aware that infoNet was covering news stories now; I had understood it to be of more content features than news. In the future, I'll aim to contact infoNet about news stories.

Have you folks considered setting up a website and blog and make RSS available? That'll probably be the route you go to provide information once HTML comes to SL anyway, right?

I'm disapointed to read the Herald coverage of this meeting: "Seventeen Second Life content-creators met with Linden Lab evangelist Reuben Linden yesterday in an attempt to hash out some of the issues facing in-world developers". Wasn't this exactly the same approach that sparked off so much trouble a few months ago - a bunch of SL content developers arrange a clandestine meeting with a linden, and try to justify the secrecy/exclusivity by (retrospectively) saying the rest of us developers are just casuals, or less commited, or don't have as big a stake, or... something...

Gee. I wonder why people got upset this time?

Seriously, wake me up when a truely *representational* content creators society / guild / whatever comes into existance... rather than all this self-aggrandizing, alienating, politiking nonsense that seems to have been the staple of such organisations so far.

- Shep Korvin
(casual developer)

I'd like to clarify on a few points:

1. The group you were referring to was land barons talking about how to control a market. The dev meeting yesterday were content developers talking about how to expand the market and bring in more people, communicate and cooperate. I believe that's a significant difference.

2. The meeting wasn't arranged "with a Linden". Two select Lindens were invited to come to our meeting, but as an equal partner, not as a "Here's our requests."

3. This is precisely why the meeting was about communication between developers, whether casual or full time or whatever - and not about making decisions. The only things decided were to start a website where people could communicate. The rest was brainstorming.

Thanks for clearing that up. Only problem is, it's all semantics. Doesn't make a whit of difference.

I remember the land baron meetings (I actually attended it when it was first posited, believe it or not), and they were also firmly convinced in their own mind that they were 'doing it for the benefit of all SL'. The only difference here is that the 'stakeholders' are the 'dedicated developers'.



Actually the way it was original put was 'improve the economic friendliness of SL to further expand existing business and to encourage growth." Sounds quite similar to me.



That's what was done among the land barons too. Technically though it was more than just landholders, but hey, let's use overt generalizations to cover up the similarities in interpretation here.



Why, ding ding ding, you win a prize, that was done too! It was a meeting with LL to open up lines of communication and just get things started.



I'm feeling so much more relieved that: swapping the phrases 'dedicated developers', 'casual developers' in the place of 'stakeholders' and 'tourists' can make such secrecy and division a good thing.

</sarcasm=off>

Whenever one starts coming up with divisive definitions like 'dedicated' versus 'casual', one is going to very likely alienate one group in favor of the other. And that's not to mention how utterly limited and arbitrary those groupings are when it's defined by a single person's limited knowledge of the community.

- Newfie

For something so open, there's sure been an awful lot of selection going on already. Select Lindens, select Developers, select FIC. Oh sorry, did I just say that out loud?

*COUGH*Content Creator Union*COUGH*

CCU was totally transparent with open enrollment. But when it came time to step up, everybody said "WE HATE BUTTERFLIES! "


I THINK that's what folks said. My memory was kinda foggy. But I did cry a lot.

Awww... *hugs*

People are wary of decision making bodies. I think the more important, core issue that needed to be accomplished is the communication between developers and the establishment of shared resources.

People here in SL are entreprenuers by nature and are rarely inclined to make decisions together through regular meetings unless all the parties concerned are equally invested in the goal.

While it's a good idea to try and establish industry standards and the like, people are even less inclined to listen to someone who invited what seems like an incredibly select group of people and then tried to make it look important.

I guess I don't really understand why interdev communication is important.

Fair enough statement. Here are some thoughts:

1. Sharing opportunities.

Right now outside companies go to Linden Lab, and LL is so busy usually they just pick the people who they know are reliable. This is okay business, but it's in no way fair to independent developers nor is it a scalable sollution. The "media opportunities" forum is sort of a nice model of how Linden Lab can centrally post something that lots of SLrs may be interested in.

2. Knowing who is out there.

It's tough sometimes just to know who's out there and available to script, build, texture, animate, etc. Having a place where this can be organized more than simply laid out in alphabetical order would better allow both RL and SL companies to find and hire developers.

3. Sharing thoughts on the business.

It's always a good idea to talk about the market, how it can be grown, and where people are going. New ideas arise, partnerships occur, and people wind up providing new services. At the most basic level, this struck me in the form that most people don't even know what going rates are for custom work.

So I think inter-dev communication has some value.

Ah, I see. Number one and two don't really apply to me as I'm not interested in working with a group or being hired. Three is in an interesting concept though. Pricing could certainly be more organized. I don't know about engaging in market research. That strikes me as valuable information at my capitolist core, something I want, but don't want to give .

Shhhh dont give away secrets now...sometimes is good to go, if for nothing else but to hear what the competition is doing

On Hiro's last post I agree 100%. I think his execution of the first meeting sucked big hairy wet moldy eggs, but the sentiment I agree with. Even when in competition, sometimes it makes sense to help the entire market to grow.

- Newfie

I'd like to join please.