Notice: SL developers' meeting log

Meeeeooooooooowwwwwwwwww!

Yes, which is why I made it clear at the beginning of the meeting. Everyone else I've double checked with understood and is fine, and I'm willing to edit out Cory's comments as a misunderstanding. They happen.

Ohhhkay new questions

Please define 'casual developers' - is that anything like 'stakeholders'? How about 'commity convention?'

Any group that wants to be open and transparent needs to be two things: open and transparent. Sending out notecards to a select group of individuals for a meeting that is unannounced and given no airing to the public (except after the fact) is neither 'open' nor is it 'transparent'.

It sounds to me like the group is already formed, and is trying to be 'transparent' in little more than an attempt to pretend to be such, rather than actually being such.


- Newfie

I dunno the other quote you gave, from the chat transcript, as supposed justification for posting didn't specifically say that the chat log would be posted either.

Does anyone else see a problem here... Hiro, "casual developers"? Perhaps this tier way of looking at the developers here in SL is a problem that needs to be addressed. Is there a quota system going on in your way of thinking? Is there a certain level of who is bringing home the bacon and if they reach that level then they are classified as "SL developers"? Hiro, this isn't settling very well in my mind. Anyone else with any thoughts about it?

lol, i feel so special now that i read this thread in time.

I'm looking forward for the continuation of this, i'm getting meself geared to doing more work in sl aswell.

I didn't. By the time I found the thread, the logs were already removed. I was just stating that to my understanding, a specific request for permission to reprint the chat logs on the SL forums hadn't been requested. Clearer language than what was used in the future would be helpful to all to avoid misunderstandings.

I've added my opening, which provides the intended theme of the meeting.

I really wanted to post the log so that we could have a level of transparency, but right now that is not possible. I urge the person who reported this thread to privately IM me, I will remove your comments from the log before it gets posted to my blog and to SL Herald / Metaverse Messenger / sent to Hamlet in case he's interested.

This is always an issue when you want to post your meeting logs. I have gone so far as to post a giant sign indicating that the meeting chat will be posted as well as a clear request for approval to post the chat log at the start of the meeting.

When SL becomes the metaverse, just have the supreme court make it reverse.

I dunno wtf is actually going on in this thread, but it was worth reading just for that bit of huffing.

I paid (RL) rent thanks to SL last month, chief. I'm not sure how you can make those sorts of determinations without having access to the bank books of all of SL.

Also: Moopf, re: meow: hilarious.

Seriously, why can't he make any determination he wants as to who to invite or not to invite?

That's right. I can't. I did it to the best that I could, to get a first meeting started, and from here on it, it's open. I apologize you weren't considered. I wanted the logs up there so that people like you felt more included. I've narrowed it down to 2 people who might have reported the thread, I'm hoping they contact me so I can clip their comments as they see fit and repost it.

And this is precisely why the developer forum will be resident run.

Hiro, please stop burying any hope for credibility. These people are your friends or thought enough about the purpose to attend your meeting. Pointing fingers at any one of them will not make this adventure very successful.

I'm leaning towards Col. Mustard. Can I peek?

Oh, he can do anything he wants, obviously, but then his choices have to be consistent with the motives he reports later on.



That's a great point. It occurs to me that the reporter needn't even have been at the meeting. I have to suspect we have a busybody or two that'll report anything that seems even remotely naughty.

Don't discourage, though, milady, because this accidental drama will be delicious if the micro-witchhunt continues apace.

Only if he wants this to be taken seriously and have broad ranging impact.



Tis true.

Sucks, I wanted to be there but I just didn't make it back in time. I'll be at the next meeting though.

hmm... I would have no problem with transparency... however I also see very little advantage. This is possibly because SL is still a hobby to me and not my primary source of income .

Wait a min. The most dedicated? Who decides that? How was it decided? How much of your profits based on how much you make in RL? Or was this more you and some of the people whom you believe to be important in your own little SL got together and had a bit of a chat?

Wait a min.. Why were you even invited?

I'm still shocked that Aimee wasn't invited.

Me? Few of you people know me or care to know me but I depend on IW profits during my freelance downtime (which is the current state). Then again the L$ means 1/2 to me because of the USD -> GBP exchange rate. Even if I made 0 profit I still have a lot of time dedicated to something that I highly enjoy doing.

Then again without my pushing and oragnizing you all would still have broken animations.

This really sounds like the thinly veiled attempt at not repeating the backlash of the last secret meeting of "movers and shakers." "Casual developers" sounds a bit too close to "tourists."

In all honesty you should have made it public at the very beginning. Now it just looks like you are a rude and clique-ish person who's trying to cover his tracks.

Thanks for your thoughts.

Aimee was invited. Unfortunately Aimee has a day job.


I meant that in the most plain way I could. People choose their own involvement, and if someone who makes 0 money off SL but is totally dedicated to the success of SL wants to be active in the forums, the wiki, the meetings, and so on, let them stand up, be noted, and that will be great.

Unfortunately, as SL is 130,000+ residents, I only had so much time to find people I knew were committed.


Criticism taken. I knew the advantages and disadvantages of each. Either way there were disadvantages. I can only hope that once things are going and resources available to developers, that perhaps the choice was okay, after all.

HA! I still don't remember getting invited. But please insert the following suggestion to the meeting notes... Hold meeting after 4PM Pacific so east coasters can attend.

i dropped you an item 3 days ago that was an invite.

As for the time, I had a lot of people to consider with timing... =\

As for future meetings, I envision them to be on more specific topics, vary in times and frequencies. But the website and developer forum should be a good place for general discussion.

I have to admit that this statement summarizes best my own opinions on this. The only people that were invited to (or even knew about) this meeting were those that just happened to be within the social sphere of one single person.

No one person - or even one group - in SL is the definition or encompasses the entire SL developer community. For every SL developer that is high-profile and has a brand name that are practically household terms, there are dozens to hundreds that have contributed equally to the SL community, but without the same spotlight of attention. To send out invites based on a single person's individual knowledge is both doing a disservice to the community and nothing to promote the goal the meeting was scheduled for in the first place.




Agreed. Whether it was done intentionally or not (I make no claim towards either), it does send a strong note of contradicting signals. I'm all for the concept of an SL developer group, but secretive meetings sent out to exclusive individuals sends definitely the wrong message.


With more forethought and feedback from the SL developer community, this first meeting could have still been held in a limited size and have given a far better job of being transparent. Then again....transparency doesn't have room for words like 'casual developers', 'most dedicated developers', etc. Phrases that are used to divide can never succeed at bringing people together.

- Newfie

I just wanted to comment on one thought of yours.


I disagree. Recognising differences can accentuate the variety of needs and resources in a group.

If it's clear there are a lot of casual people, recognising that fact could aid to making sure that their needs are not overlooked.