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Old Advice on Land Purchases

Prokofy Neva
Virtualtor
Join date: 28 Sep 2004
Posts: 3,698
05-09-2005 09:09
I thought I'd print this old advice from older players about buying land, which Lindens sometimes distribute and which can also be found in news kiosks to this day (despite being out of date, as it was written before the Snowcrash of August 2004). I think it would be good if people could discuss it.

My own feeling about this advice is that it is one-sided. Note that its authors' do not include Anshe Chung or Blue Burke or other big land dealers, but instead, the self-appointed FIC elite who often are crticial of land dealers and accuse them of scams and frauds (in a highly exaggerated way, given that such scams don't tend to occur in anywhere near the high percentages that they imply).


Land Buying Advice for New Residents 2004-07-21


Land Buying Advice for New Residents

Hello and welcome to Second Life!

Here is some advice that should make your land buying experience more pleasant.

Summary (detailed comments follow after):
0) Caveat Emptor - Buyer Beware
1) You don't have to buy land for Second Life to be enjoyable.
2) Owning land means you have to pay monthly fees.
3) Plot size matters.
4) Start with a Land for the Landless lot first.
5) Location! Location! Location!
6) You can buy land from Linden Labs directly through the land auctions.
7) Become familiar with land prices.
8) Your Friends can help.
9) Negotiate.
10) Things change.
11) If you have a problem... ask for help.

Details:

0 Caveat Emptor

Buyer beware. Or at least be aware. Learn what you can about buying land, why you want it, and what you can do with it. The advice in this notecard should keep you out of most land trouble, but in the end you are responsible for your decisions.

1 You don't need land

To enjoy Second Life you DO NOT need land. At the time of this notecard's writing, only 15% of the residents own land. You don't have to have land to have fun in Second life.

2 Monthly Fees

If you own any land, you will be paying a monthly fee in US$. For details about this check out:
http://secondlife.com/land/land-faq.php
and
http://forums.secondlife.com/showth...;threadid=10110

3 Size matters

Avoid buying lots smaller than 512 sq.m. at first.

Considering that the smallest amount of land rights you can pay for is 512 sq.m., and you can get 512 sq.m for cheap through Land for the Landless, you should only seriously consider buying a 512 sq.m. lot at first.

4 Land for the Landless

Linden Labs has a program where you can buy 512 sq.m. for Linden $512. At Linden $1/sq.m. you can't beat this price, and you can eventually sell this land for a tidy profit. But before you do sell your land, learn what it is you can do with land. This is a great opportunity to do that.

For complete details about the Land for the Landless program go here:
http://forums.secondlife.com/showth...;threadid=10110

To apply for land go here:
http://forums.secondlife.com/showth...;threadid=10109
(Make sure you REPLY to the thread.)

5 Location! Location! Location!

When you finally decide to buy a new lot, go look at it. What are the neighbors like? Is it conveniently located for you? Do you like the geography? Does the sim host many events (which cause lag)? Is it close to your friends or favorite hang outs? Or what ever other considerations matter to you.

6 Land Auctions

You can buy land directly from Linden Labs through the land auctions. You can buy land for Linden Dollars (L$) or for US dollars.

The auctions are located at:
http://secondlife.com/auctions/auction-list.php?id=1

7 Land Prices (L$/sq.m.)

Before you buy (or sell) land you really should look at the Find->Land Sales window. Look at what land prices for the rating and size you want are. Also, look at the auctions to see what land is going for there.

You should not have to buy at the highest land prices to get land you want, if you research land prices before hand.

8 Friends

If you let your friends know you want to buy land, then they may help you find a good lot at a good deal. And it might be nice and close to your friends.

9 Negotiate

The price listed is not fixed. The land owner can set the price to whatever they want. If you ask nicely, the land owner may lower the price for you.

10 Things Change

Even after you buy your land, you will find that Second Life changes greatly from day to day. One day your neighbor is an empty lot, and the next it may be an ivory tower or an ugly box.

If you don't like what's there now, wait around, it might change to something new in a couple days.

11 Help!

The advice in this notecard does not cover everything that can happen in a land deal. If you have a problem ask for help. Ask your friends, or if worst come to worst, search for someone with the last name "Linden. They are employees of Second Life and are there to help you.

* * *

Specials Thanks to:
Talen Morgan, Schwanson Schlegel, Camille Serpentine, katykiwi Moonflower, Almarea Lumiere, Darko Cellardoor, Zsinj Xevious, Cristiano Midnight, Billy Grace, Misnomer Jones, Rysidian Rubio, Planet Mars, Lisse Livingston
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Ghoti Nyak
καλλιστι
Join date: 7 Aug 2004
Posts: 2,078
05-09-2005 09:47
Maybe the 'special thanks to:' section is people that helped with the creation of the document?
Maybe this document is old enough in origin that the 'FIC' were not even feted yet when it was written? It certainly predates both of us. Certianly needs an update, that much is for certain.

-Ghoti
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"Sometimes I believe that this less material life is our truer life, and that our vain presence on the terraqueous globe is itself the secondary or merely virtual phenomenon." ~ H.P. Lovecraft
PetGirl Bergman
Fellow Creature:-)
Join date: 16 Feb 2005
Posts: 2,414
05-09-2005 09:51
Many links dont work.... sorry..

Bu the text are good to have read...
Schwanson Schlegel
SL's Tokin' Villain
Join date: 15 Nov 2003
Posts: 2,721
05-09-2005 09:52
So is your problem with the information supplied on the note card, or with the people listed as it's authors?
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Juro Kothari
Like a dog on a bone
Join date: 4 Sep 2003
Posts: 4,418
05-09-2005 10:05
From: Prokofy Neva
My own feeling about this advice is that it is one-sided. Note that its authors' do not include Anshe Chung or Blue Burke or other big land dealers, but instead, the self-appointed FIC elite who often are crticial of land dealers and accuse them of scams and frauds (in a highly exaggerated way, given that such scams don't tend to occur in anywhere near the high percentages that they imply).

Everything's a conspiracy to you, isn't it? Those folks are probably the ones would helped write up the card, that's all. Maybe you should ask these folks instead of suggesting that they are up to something greater than just a small contribution to a 'How to' land manual.
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Prokofy Neva
Virtualtor
Join date: 28 Sep 2004
Posts: 3,698
05-09-2005 10:10
DUH, I know they are the people who helped write the card. DUH. That's what I just said. AND DUH I know they just wrote a manual -- that's obvious. YOU are the one trying to read some conspiracy in it. All I'm doing is hoping that when people read it in public like that, and contrast it with my advice, and contrast it with other discussions going on now, they realize that this advice is cramped and one-sided. It doesn't really celebrate land-owning and dealing, it doesn't encourage newbies, it makes it seem like they are going to face fraud and difficulties in this very natural and enjoyable activity.

And I said that these "people who helped write the card" put in extra warnings against fraud that only discourage and don't help, they played up too much the idea that "you don't need land to enjoy the game" in their usual tekkie wiki fascination (well, sure, play in a sandbox or play on your free 4096 lol).

AND these people who wrote the card took it on themselves to be the usual tekkie wiki HELPERS -- like I am doing as a one-man band, and an obnoxious one at that -- but they didn't bother to consult the actual dealers of land, like Anshe Chung or Blue Burke or Bob Bravo or others. They could have. They could have then presented a more positive picture. If they are setting themselves up as "game mentors" in a group, they could have at least consulted those actual land dealers, and trust me, if they had done that, they would have had a more balanced card.

I didn't consult groups to write my card, but that's because it's just my card for my business, and I hand it out, but I don't pretend to be a mentor or a group.

So to answer your question Schwanson, I have a problem with both the people and the content. It strikes me as biased (we won't criticize it for being out of date, obviously). It is geared towards the minimum -- and trying to make land owning and dealing seem like something that isn't really a lot of fun -- which it is.
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Schwanson Schlegel
SL's Tokin' Villain
Join date: 15 Nov 2003
Posts: 2,721
05-09-2005 10:23
That notecard was developed by someone (sorry forgot who) who polled the forums for information. They asked what information should be included on a notecard for newbies about land. It was discussed, and amended on these forums. Fortunately you weren't in SL yet, or we may still be writing it.

Everyone in SL at that time could have added information or brought up concern's about it's wording.

Feel free to disregard anything I've said and formulate a conspiracy theory though.
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Prokofy Neva
Virtualtor
Join date: 28 Sep 2004
Posts: 3,698
05-09-2005 10:28
From: someone
That notecard was developed by someone (sorry forgot who) who polled the forums for information. They asked what information should be included on a notecard for newbies about land. It was discussed, and amended on these forums. Fortunately you weren't in SL yet, or we may still be writing it.

Everyone in SL at that time could have added information or brought up concern's about it's wording.

Feel free to disregard anything I've said and formulate a conspiracy theory though.


That's a silly way to make a card like that. Polls are notoriously incomplete and biased on these forums.

You could have easily asked the land barons to contribute. You could do a mixture of polls and have a group brainstorm. Indeed, it's precisely that needed collective corrective that I'm looking for, in posting these two versions -- to get feedback, to make corrections and updates and improvements.

That you didn't ask the land barons back then -- and you're one yourself, really! -- just signifies the attitude problem your class has.

It doesn't have to be a conspiracy for it to be something I criticize as biased. Don't dignify it by calling it a conspiracy.

No need to be snarky about "still writing it". My cards are actually pretty short and sweet. They are arranged by topic. People find them useful. I hand them out without benefit of older players, networks, or Lindens.

No, we didn't get in the game when you did Schwanson, but we have to start somewhere.

Say, do you have a post scanner like Ingrid's? That was quick.
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Juro Kothari
Like a dog on a bone
Join date: 4 Sep 2003
Posts: 4,418
05-09-2005 10:35
How many land barons did you consult for your own notecard? Anshe? Blue?
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Prokofy Neva
Virtualtor
Join date: 28 Sep 2004
Posts: 3,698
05-09-2005 10:43
From: someone
How many land barons did you consult for your own notecard? Anshe? Blue?


My card is just my card, in my rentals business, as a service. I don't pretend to be a mentor or a game guru or a feted older player. I'm just someone with a card.

And really, I did consult Anshe and Blue in learning the land business. I learned the hard way -- from experience. I flew around, and watched what they did. Sometimes I bought something from them. Sometimes I sold something to them. I watched how they did it. I tracked how they parceled stuff. So yeah, my experience is gained not only from my own experience but from studying Anshe, Blue, Bob Bravo, Jauani Wu, and others in this business who know a lot more about it than me -- sure.

So take it or leave it. Do your own card?

My purpose here is not to posture as the latest friend to newbs, but to receive genuine, authentic, correctives, suggestions, ideas about what is left out, etc.

I'm happy to have it serve as the latest venue for post-scanners to punch me, but when they get done with that, try to think about the content and what needs adding or subtracting.
_____________________
Rent stalls and walls for $25-$50/week 25-50 prims from Ravenglass Rentals, the mall alternative.
Juro Kothari
Like a dog on a bone
Join date: 4 Sep 2003
Posts: 4,418
05-09-2005 10:46
And your card is different and/or more valid because...??
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Schwanson Schlegel
SL's Tokin' Villain
Join date: 15 Nov 2003
Posts: 2,721
05-09-2005 10:49
From: Prokofy Neva
That's a silly way to make a card like that. Polls are notoriously incomplete and biased on these forums.

Thank you. Tell whoever wrote it to do it your way next time.


From: Prokofy Neva
That you didn't ask the land barons back then -- and you're one yourself, really! -- just signifies the attitude problem your class has.

My class? You are a piece of work.

From: Prokofy Neva
It doesn't have to be a conspiracy for it to be something I criticize as biased. Don't dignify it by calling it a conspiracy.

Read your own post above.

From: Prokofy Neva
No need to be snarky about "still writing it". My cards are actually pretty short and sweet. They are arranged by topic. People find them useful. I hand them out without benefit of older players, networks, or Lindens.

Short and sweet?? Lets take a look at an excerpt of one of your cards:

From: Prokofy Neva's short and sweet note card

EXCERPT


As a new player with a premium account, you have a wondeful privilege to buy a basic 512 parcel of land, suitable for a newbie home or business, for the cost of only $512, but only on land designated as "first land" subsidized by Linden Labs.

You do not have to own land to enjoy Second Life, but it is a great way to start off and have a place of your very own which you will be able to re-sell at a profit to get your first significant amount of game currency without an outside purchase of currency from a third party.

While you can freely buy any land set to sale, you should definitely first acquire your first-land using the $512 purchase privilege that comes automatically in the premium account, because you will always be able to resell it at a profit.

*You can only use this privilege once so shop carefully before you right-click to buy.*

First-land listings are in the "Land Sale" tab at the top of your screen. Make sure that you are finding a land tagged by Linden Labs with the green first land tag, and not the player-sold "$" tagged land that can sometimes still have the words "first land" on it because it was just purchased from a newbie, but be available at a higher price than $512.

Go to "view" and click off "property owners" to see the colors of land:
Red means it is owned by a player or by Governor Linden; purple means it is slated for auction; yellow-brown means it is available for sale. Only newbies with the first-land privilege still available to them will see first-land as available for sale -- older players cannot buy it. Additionally, your own land once you possess it will be bright green; group land in any groups you join will be aqua.

Also in FIND press "LAND FOR SALE" to get the full sales list with filters for your price range, size, etc.

And press on the "MAP" in the lower right-hand corner and the 'LAND FOR SALE' tab to see patches of white where land is available in-world -- click on them to teleport them.

11. What is the best land to buy?

The best land to buy is the one you like, with the look and feel comfortable for living in or setting up a business, but be aware that the fundamental rule of Second Life is:

EVERYTHING CHANGES CONSTANTLY.

Because SL is a world where residents create the content and have a lot of freedom to do so, the world changes constantly. What you see around you today that may look like a clear waterfront or pristine wilderness or awesome view will almost certainly look different when others buy the properties in the coming days. Expect constant change, and you will not become frustrated.

Expect that many other people have different notions than you of what is good building or what is beauty, and you will not get angry. The great thing about the changeability of SL is that it is like the weather; if you don?t like it, you don't have to change it, it will likely change all on its own within 24 hours.

The rule of thumb for virtual estate is like real estate: location, location, location. And just like in RL you want to be near the good schools, in SL you will want to shop with the notion of where Governor Linden land or the telehubs are located.

Land bordered by Governor Linden's protected land (in red, not purple, which is his auctioned land) has a higher value precisely because it does not change. So land bounded by Linden sea, Linden woods Linden railroads, Linden roads, or anything that says it is owned by Governor Linden Maintenance or Protected Land is a good buy. Roads are often a sign that an area will have a commercial value so plan accordingly if you are looking for a house.

Be aware that land that looks like it is on the edge of water, but has a scalloped edge and seems to bounce your avatar as you approach it, maybe simply be the unfinished edge of a sim -- the Lindens are still building it. This is *not* waterfront property and could tomorrow become a parcel in the middle of nowhere surrounded by land.

Land right next to telehubs is considered the most prized in SL because of the high-traffic brought to telehub areas that bring sales to vendors and dwell points, or lot points adding up to extra dollars in your stipend, to event organizers.

Flat, green, mature parcels on waterfront are also considered prizes but first land can almost never be found on them because they are difficult to parcel reasonably.

Land in mature is more valuable than land in PG areas and will sell for a higher price.

Snow is not considered a good buy in SL at this time because it is believed to have oversaturated the market.

Mountainous land can have a very beautiful view but it may prove very difficult to build on without more building skills and a house with stilts.

Look for first land that isn't in the middle of the "postage stamps" of numerous areas of first-land in a square. If you buy in the "postage stamps" you will get a flat lot that's great to build on. But you risk having neighbours who may build something ugly or build something to grief and become unhappy being stuck next to them. These areas turn over very quickly as land dealers snap them up to try to make contiguous parcels.

To set yourself to home to land on your land, go to "world" and "set home to here" at the top of your screen.

Did you forget where you land is? Well go to "World" and "My Land" and it is listed -- you will see its coordinates.

Next time you get there, stand on it and press "world" and "create landmark here" to get a handy landmark to give people for your home or business.

12. How much is first land worth? Should I accept my first offer?

First land can be valued at anywhere from $2/meter to $10 meters depending on whether it is in PG or M, waterfront or mountain, telehub or very far away, etc. It's most likely to be around $3-4 for PG and $5-7 or more for mature.

Land dealers often fly around new land areas looking for newbies to buy land from. You do not have to sell to them but it can be handy to take their calling card to see if you might want to contact them later. They are often willing to buy immediately so you can make a fast sale and move out of what you may see by now is going to become first-land hell, surrounded by loads of other people with hardly any room to build or see anything, with your view likely obstructed.

Many people caution you to be afraid of land speculators. Most land dealer, however, are honest and helpful because they want to keep good customer relations for the long term. Keep in mind that you are in control and you can decide at any time to sell your land at any price you wish to fix on it, now or later. No one but Governor Linden can take your land away from you if your account is paid for, if you do not want to sell it.

Take the time to compare prices in your area, study the land sale list by alphabetizing it at the top, putting it on "all" and seeing what all prices of land are selling for in your sim per square meter.

Don't accept any offer that involves you taking cash, but first setting your land to sale for $0 or involves giving anyone your account password any other RL information.

13. How do I sell my land?

Right click on your land, go to "about land" and look for the "sale" option. Be sure never to click this off until you FIRST go and establish a price because if it is at $0 and you click it off, someone using a land scanner to detect $0 and low-priced sales can immediately snap it up and you will likely be unable to get it back.

After determining the price-per-meter, calculate your price and type it in the box. Then check off "sale" on "about land" menu.

To have your land show up in the Land Sale list, you *do not* have to have the "find places" option clicked off on the tab for "options"; indeed, that only causes you to have to pay $30/week and only makes the land display in Find Places which is used more for entertainment and busineses -- land sale doesn't require the fee.

Instead, make sure that you type the name of your sim in the description box, i.e. "Columbia". Then a common practice is to put "M" or "PG" next to the sim name, and then designate the type, i.e. "Waterfront" "Waterview" "Mountainview" "Flat Green" etc.

In the description box, you can type a line that helps to sell your land, i.e. "Bounded by Linden land, flat for building, great views," etc.

Search the "Land Sale" list to make sure your land is showing up right with the name of the sim in the description first. You can also try things like using the word "Waterfront" first or "Great Deal" first but it is less likely to be found that way.

Most sales occur by name of sim. And the people paying the highest prices are those right in your sim who want more land in that sim. So advertise to them by naming your sim in your land description.

When you have completed your description, get a photo of the land and put that in "options". Make one photo as a "texture" upload and another to saved on your hard drive to put on the "classifieds" section of www.secondlife.com Many sales come through this use of the "Land for Sale" on the classifieds. Use your game log-in and password to join the SL forums.

14. Should I just put a high price on it and leave it? Maybe someone will click it?

A common newbie mistake is to put "$10000" on a land or more in the mistaken belief that someone will click on it. Nobody will. Other newbies who might be stupid enough to click and pay for a 512 will not have that much money. And anyone with that much money will be able to shop more effectively. Don't hope for somebody to be that stupid; you yourself would not enjoy making that kind of stupid mistake.

When you put too high a price on land, it sits there, and can even invite suspicions that you are using the high price to grief, especially with a tall build on it. And the people you affect most with that message are your neighbours -- who are you most likely customers!

Many first-landers find they can sell their land to other first-landers who want to stay in the area and extend to a 1024 or 1536. So think of them first, talk to them, and you may make a friend instead of an enemy in your early days.

15. What is tier?

Tier, which is a word for "level," is a maintenance fee or rent which you must pay to Linden Labs *in addition to* the purchase price of land. Go to www.secondlife.com and click on "my account" and "land fees" to see the schedule, or tier of fees.

Premium accounts have a free 512 of tier, and the privilege to buy $512 of first-land on a one time basis only; it is used up after the first sale. The free allocation of 512 tier remains in your account, and can be held free, or applied to land, and moved from one land to another, and used to contribute to a group, or used toward a purchase when you "tier up" to a higher level.

Tier can be complicated to understand unless you realize that tier and land are separate. You cannot buy land without tier. But you can have a tier allocation available, and have no land to which it is applied -- yet. This will show up in your account on the SL web page as land "available for purchase". You must have paid for the tier level to Linden Labs on the web page before you can buy the equivalent amount of land in the world -- the game will prompt you through these menus when you attempt to buy land, and force you to tier up if you have not done so in advance.

If you right-click and buy land above your tier level, your money will be taken, but you will not gain access to the land, and instead will be prompted to go to the SL web page to tier up to the level you wish to cover the purchase. This means you will have to have more money available on your credit or debit card. If you can't cover the land you just bought, you will lose the land and the money you paid for it after a certain time limit, i.e. 7 days. So check your tier level carefully.

You are always charged for the highest amount of land you've possessed, even if it is only $1L over the last tier level. So be careful not to accidentally put yourself up in a higher tier level than you want to be.

Note: when the Linden Lab says $5 for 1024, that doesn?t mean it will be another $5 for another 1024. The ladder of tier fees has some big jumps in it so study it carefully before buying land you may not be able to pay for. 2048 is going to be $15, then, not $10, and so on.

The tier level of 1024 includes within it the free 512 you receive in the premium account, meaning your payment of $9.95 for the premium account plus $5 for tier gives you 1536 of tier to access that much land in the game.

The tier level of 4096 is actually then 4704 because the free 512 is added, not included, in the tier level. And so forth up the ladder.

Tier is moveable around the game. You can apply 512 of your tier to a 512 piece of land, then it is tied up. But if you want to move, you sell that parcel, your 512 tier is freed up, and now you can go apply it to another piece of 512 land, or tier up to 1024 for 5, in which case you now can get 1536, perhaps 1024 on your home, and 512 on your shop somewhere else.

15. What is tier donation to a group to cover group land?

If your tier is not tied to land after the sale of first land, or you have some tier left over after paying for tier at a certain level, you may wish to donate it to a group.

Do not donate tier if you have not used your 512 first-land purchase privilege because that will use up that privilege and it cannot be repeated -- donation to a land group is participation in that group's tier coverage to own land and is considered the same as a regular land purchase.

Instead, shop for first land, sell it, then consider donating tier to a group.

We offer rentals at Ravenglass Rentals for equivalent of tier donation, i.e. 512 tier for 512 land, 1024 land for 1024 land, etc.

If you want to donate tier in lieu of cash rent, contact the officers to get a step-by-step instruction.



From: Prokofy Neva
No, we didn't get in the game when you did Schwanson, but we have to start somewhere.


What the hell does that have to do with anything?
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Kismet Karuna
Tosser
Join date: 5 Jun 2004
Posts: 195
05-09-2005 11:18
From: Juro Kothari
And your card is different and/or more valid because...??

Because Prokofy wrote it, DUH! :p

Haven't you figured out that Prokofy has the Midas touch? DUH!

Prokofy is always right, come on Juro! DUH!
Juro Kothari
Like a dog on a bone
Join date: 4 Sep 2003
Posts: 4,418
05-09-2005 11:22
Oh... right... sorry, I forgot about that rule. If anyone needs me, I'll be over there in the corner. ;)
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Enabran Templar
Capitalist Pig
Join date: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 4,506
05-09-2005 12:24
Maybe Prokofy's Officer Recall issue had something to do with his land group demanding more brevity in documentation.
Brian Livingston
Registered User
Join date: 26 Jan 2004
Posts: 183
05-09-2005 12:35
I've gotta ask this... is anything that anyone does to help the community inherently bad in your eyes, Prokofy? Or is it just that if it doesn't mesh completely with your delusional one-manned anti-techiwikicontentbarronbigbadmeeniehead crusade, it must be feted?

--BL
Prokofy Neva
Virtualtor
Join date: 28 Sep 2004
Posts: 3,698
05-09-2005 14:46
From: someone
Maybe Prokofy's Officer Recall issue had something to do with his land group demanding more brevity in documentation.


No, Enabram, the officer recall had to do with some idiot asshole kid who was annoyed at my critique of his company, and the use of his company by his builder to harass me. He seized the officer recall gambit as a way to secure maximum griefing and paralysis at minimum brain effort LOL.
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Rent stalls and walls for $25-$50/week 25-50 prims from Ravenglass Rentals, the mall alternative.
Prokofy Neva
Virtualtor
Join date: 28 Sep 2004
Posts: 3,698
05-09-2005 14:49
From: someone
I've gotta ask this... is anything that anyone does to help the community inherently bad in your eyes, Prokofy? Or is it just that if it doesn't mesh completely with your delusional one-manned anti-techiwikicontentbarronbigbadmeeniehead crusade, it must be feted?


I know my style on this issue especially is abrasive. And I know I don't supply any sterling and stunning alternative.

But I am trying to get at the larger problem of a tiny group of people, tekkies and their hangers-on, grabbing the jugular of the game. It's a real problem. They want to filter, select, deflect, education, inform, control. It all goes together. So they need a pushback. The game isn't just theirs, and not just for them.

Sure, I could put these cards out without any snarky commentary, and some people would say, oh, thanks, that's helpful. In fact, that's just what I do in the game :D

However, on the forums, I want to make the larger issue that this age-old habit of letting older players be the manual-writers and the live-helpers has some really big built-in problems to it, not unlike the problems, say, in the Soviet army's system of hazing of recruits.

And I think there has to be more diversity of manuals, and critiquing of manuals -- and their very premise. I think when a group of people who don't care much about the land market set out to write a notecard about it, their prejudices are showing. And they need corrections.

For example, the Lindens are continuing to hand out Kex Godel's card to all and sundry, and this card, to all and sundry, completely unaware -- or unconcerned -- that both documents contain a decided slant and bias *against* land dealers and a setting up of newbies to think that scammers and exploiters lurk around every corner.

I'm for dispelling that myth.
_____________________
Rent stalls and walls for $25-$50/week 25-50 prims from Ravenglass Rentals, the mall alternative.
Enabran Templar
Capitalist Pig
Join date: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 4,506
05-09-2005 15:16
From: Prokofy Neva
No, Enabram, the officer recall had to do with some idiot asshole kid who was annoyed at my critique of his company, and the use of his company by his builder to harass me. He seized the officer recall gambit as a way to secure maximum griefing and paralysis at minimum brain effort LOL.


I love efficiency.
Schwanson Schlegel
SL's Tokin' Villain
Join date: 15 Nov 2003
Posts: 2,721
05-09-2005 15:17
From: Prokofy Neva
I want to make the larger issue that this age-old habit of letting older players be the manual-writers and the live-helpers has some really big built-in problems to it, not unlike the problems, say, in the Soviet army's system of hazing of recruits..

I agree, live help is just like the soviet millitary, without the copious amounts of vodka..


From: Prokofy Neva
I think when a group of people who don't care much about the land market set out to write a notecard about it, their prejudices are showing. And they need corrections.

I happen to have a large stake in the land market, and I care.

From: Prokofy Neva
that both documents contain a decided slant and bias *against* land dealers and a setting up of newbies to think that scammers and exploiters lurk around every corner.


Where do you see any sort of slant against land dealers? Are we reading the same card?
I don't see anything about scammers or exploiters, but it probably wouldn't be a bad idea to acknowledge their existance.
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Marcos Fonzarelli
You are not Marcos
Join date: 26 Feb 2004
Posts: 748
05-09-2005 15:19
Second Life: DUH!
pandastrong Fairplay
all bout the BANG POW NOW
Join date: 16 Aug 2004
Posts: 2,920
05-09-2005 15:23
From: Prokofy Neva

So take it or leave it. Do your own card?


Start your own damn poll!(tm)
_____________________
"Honestly, you are a gem -- fun, creative, and possessing strong social convictions. I think LL should be paying you to be in their game."

~ Ulrika Zugzwang on the iconography of pandastrong in the media



"That's no good. Someone is going to take your place as SL's cutest boy while you're offline."

~ Ingrid Ingersoll on the topic of LL refusing to pay pandastrong for being in their game.
Kismet Karuna
Tosser
Join date: 5 Jun 2004
Posts: 195
05-09-2005 16:09
DUH! LOL!
StoneSelf Karuna
His Grace
Join date: 13 Jun 2004
Posts: 1,955
05-09-2005 16:11
i should update this some day...

From: Prokofy Neva
Land Buying Advice for New Residents 2004-07-21


Land Buying Advice for New Residents

Hello and welcome to Second Life!

Here is some advice that should make your land buying experience more pleasant.

Summary (detailed comments follow after):
0) Caveat Emptor - Buyer Beware
1) You don't have to buy land for Second Life to be enjoyable.
2) Owning land means you have to pay monthly fees.
3) Plot size matters.
4) Start with a Land for the Landless lot first.
5) Location! Location! Location!
6) You can buy land from Linden Labs directly through the land auctions.
7) Become familiar with land prices.
8) Your Friends can help.
9) Negotiate.
10) Things change.
11) If you have a problem... ask for help.

Details:

0 Caveat Emptor

Buyer beware. Or at least be aware. Learn what you can about buying land, why you want it, and what you can do with it. The advice in this notecard should keep you out of most land trouble, but in the end you are responsible for your decisions.

1 You don't need land

To enjoy Second Life you DO NOT need land. At the time of this notecard's writing, only 15% of the residents own land. You don't have to have land to have fun in Second life.

2 Monthly Fees

If you own any land, you will be paying a monthly fee in US$. For details about this check out:
http://secondlife.com/land/land-faq.php
and
http://forums.secondlife.com/showth...;threadid=10110

3 Size matters

Avoid buying lots smaller than 512 sq.m. at first.

Considering that the smallest amount of land rights you can pay for is 512 sq.m., and you can get 512 sq.m for cheap through Land for the Landless, you should only seriously consider buying a 512 sq.m. lot at first.

4 Land for the Landless

Linden Labs has a program where you can buy 512 sq.m. for Linden $512. At Linden $1/sq.m. you can't beat this price, and you can eventually sell this land for a tidy profit. But before you do sell your land, learn what it is you can do with land. This is a great opportunity to do that.

For complete details about the Land for the Landless program go here:
http://forums.secondlife.com/showth...;threadid=10110

To apply for land go here:
http://forums.secondlife.com/showth...;threadid=10109
(Make sure you REPLY to the thread.)

5 Location! Location! Location!

When you finally decide to buy a new lot, go look at it. What are the neighbors like? Is it conveniently located for you? Do you like the geography? Does the sim host many events (which cause lag)? Is it close to your friends or favorite hang outs? Or what ever other considerations matter to you.

6 Land Auctions

You can buy land directly from Linden Labs through the land auctions. You can buy land for Linden Dollars (L$) or for US dollars.

The auctions are located at:
http://secondlife.com/auctions/auction-list.php?id=1

7 Land Prices (L$/sq.m.)

Before you buy (or sell) land you really should look at the Find->Land Sales window. Look at what land prices for the rating and size you want are. Also, look at the auctions to see what land is going for there.

You should not have to buy at the highest land prices to get land you want, if you research land prices before hand.

8 Friends

If you let your friends know you want to buy land, then they may help you find a good lot at a good deal. And it might be nice and close to your friends.

9 Negotiate

The price listed is not fixed. The land owner can set the price to whatever they want. If you ask nicely, the land owner may lower the price for you.

10 Things Change

Even after you buy your land, you will find that Second Life changes greatly from day to day. One day your neighbor is an empty lot, and the next it may be an ivory tower or an ugly box.

If you don't like what's there now, wait around, it might change to something new in a couple days.

11 Help!

The advice in this notecard does not cover everything that can happen in a land deal. If you have a problem ask for help. Ask your friends, or if worst come to worst, search for someone with the last name "Linden. They are employees of Second Life and are there to help you.

* * *

Specials Thanks to:
Talen Morgan, Schwanson Schlegel, Camille Serpentine, katykiwi Moonflower, Almarea Lumiere, Darko Cellardoor, Zsinj Xevious, Cristiano Midnight, Billy Grace, Misnomer Jones, Rysidian Rubio, Planet Mars, Lisse Livingston
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AIDS IS NOT OVER. people are still getting aids. people are still living with aids. people are still dying from aids. please help me raise money for hiv/aids services and research. you can help by making a donation here: http://www.aidslifecycle.org/1409 .
Malachi Petunia
Gentle Miscreant
Join date: 21 Sep 2003
Posts: 3,414
05-09-2005 17:11
Cool, I now have a macro for this:
Dear Ms. Neva,
I have no idea what you wrote wrote about, but I have no doubt that is is more solipsistic, megalomaniacal, psuedo-intellectual, verbose, self-serving, incomprehensible vitriol.

Cordially,
Malachi Petunia
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