Opposed to Prop 279 - All sims MATURE

If there were an actual shortage of land, I could see this point of view being relevant in this discussion, but with sims churning out as fast as the Lindens can build the systems and land prices falling regardless of sim type, I think this is a hollow argument in this discussion. There is no shortage of freedom in SL on this issue as things stand.

neko

I can empathize with those who want this proposal, even though I personally oppose it. I bought my first land in a PG sim without really understanding the distinction, only to regret the purchase because it severely hampered what I could or couldn't do in the privacy of my own house. I would have appreciated a notecard explaining the difference before I purchased the land. It took awhile to sell it, but I did eventually sell it at a profit so that I could buy land in a mature sim.

I appreciate, however, the situation of those with children at home and therefore firmly support their rights to environments without sex. What surprises me, as a side note, is that we are societally more concerned with children's exposure to sex (a procreative function) than violence and other destruction. I'd like to see all fighting and other violence restricted to mature sims too, on a personal level.

I agree about the "first land" notecard. There are a number of things it would be good to try to make sure players are aware of when they first buy land.

Regarding sex vs. violence, yes, it's ironic, but fairly typical of U.S. culture on the whole. We have 2 "unsafe" sims but anyone can set their land to "unsafe" and violence isn't particularly restricted to any location. I'm a little surprised there isn't more differentiation by sim as there is for sexual content. Then again, SL isn't designed to display extreme violence (no blood or body parts flying).

I don't know about equating Mature sims with "ok for violence," though. Do Jesse and Rausch allow Mature content? I'm reminded of an ad I saw for an anime-themed computer game some time back-- "Sex and violence -- but not at the same time!"

neko

I vote *NO*

(except there isn't a way to vote "NO". You can either vote ME TOO, or I guess you can rant in the forums.)

Some people simply don't like mature themes. Many cultures are different from Western, and we should not shoot ourselves in the foot by excluding them.

Personally, I like living in a PG sim because I don't have to fly over porn to get to my plot and because it's generally quieter than M sims.

I urge LL to immediately close down this suggestion as it restricts player freedoms, and release the votes for other features.

Strongly seconded. Please reject this feature.

I dont think making all sims mature is a good idea. However I do think making a clear distinction between PG and Mature zones would be a good idea. Perhaps making pg and mature continents seperated... They do it with private sims o.O

1. Remove all mature areas from the main land mass (the area where people first arrive in SL). Allow Mature sim residents to vote to become a PG area if they wish. Current PG areas cannot convert to Mature.

2. Combine all mature content in one red-light continent.

3. Charge a seperate monthly fee to access the mature content continent, and use an AVS (age verification system), not unlike pornographic web sites do now, to help confirm that no minors are allowed access. Snail mail monthly billing statements should be sent to the credit card holders address reminding them that this bill is for mature content.

4. Mature Continent directory listings, events, and classifieds do not show in searches unless you are a mature content subscriber.

5. Allow teen grid screened minors in good standing limited acess to the PG continent after 3 months good behavior.

I think it is kinda dumb to have PG sims next to Mature sims. What sort of freedom do I have if I have land on the border and I can't put mature content up because it can be seen in the PG sim. Conversly, if I have PG land next to mature, av's can have an orgy right next to me, I can see their naughty chats and hear their lewd sounds even though I got PG land so I didn't have to be exposed to it.

I think there should be a PG continent and a mature continent.

I agree with Barbarra, choice is always a good thing.

I would like to remind you that you have to be mature (18 or more) to get an account here. An age verification system with something else than creditcard will only work in the country hosting the system. The world is much bigger than only USA (why do I assume that this MATURE problem is mostly an American concern?)

When you talk about teens you talk about the age 18 and 19, young adults with their own responsibilities. If you want to protect the young you should focus on NRA instead. Gun kills, not a glims of naked skin (oouff, I guess I got going on there..)

actually even in mature sims there is essentially an 'overflight' standard.. aka you can't have a giant 30 foot phallus just sitting out there in yer front yard.. potentially objectionable material is supposed to be kept within a building or structure, something where someone would have to exhert even the tiniest little effort to actually find it... think of it like the 'back room' at a movie rental store... the content is there, but you aren't supposed to get it in your face unless you pull back the curtain

There have been minors in SL before, there are minors here now, and there will be more minors here in the future.

Linden Lab is located in the United States, and therefore subject to the laws there.

Immaturity seems to be a world wide issue.


When I talk about minors I'm refering to children, legally defined in the United States as being under 18. You will also note that both violence enabled sims are rated mature, and should be moved to the red light contient as well.

This issue is not really about minors though. The issue is locating potentially offensive content away from areas that are PG. Just because someone is old enough to view the content doesn't mean they want to be subjected to it constantly.

Charging an extra fee provides more revenue for Linden lab, while acting as an additional filter to both help prevent tragic pedaphilic interactions and reduce their liability in case of an incident.

It also allows Second Life to become more of a mainstream application. Segregating the mature content might allow responsible teen grid users to interact with adults, including their parents, in a family enviroment.

The current reputation of Second Life as a sexual watering hole prevents a large demographic from trying it out. In order for Second Life to really grow and prosper the great majority of the population that is not fetish focused needs to be catered to.

well that seperate continent isn't going to happen simply because most people in mature land now probably wouldn't want to be 'piled over there' and charged more to access their own builds and land, whether they actually *HAVE* mature content in them or not (most mature builds don't actually have objectionable things in them, they just want a little more freedom to occasionally let slip some language or mabye an image or two for a joke, etc)

I agree with Max. What exactly is an AVS? They use a credt card to verify you are over 18... duh, that is what SL does already. All ypu would be doing is putting money in the AVS owner's pocket accomplishing the same thing plus adding another layer of complexity.

Why charge more for mature? Why not charge more for PG so they can ensure their delicate sensibilities aren't impinged upon? It makes about as much sense. If you were to really look around you would find there really isn't that much mature content visible anywhere in SL unless you invade people's property and snoop around their skyrooms and bedrooms.

BTW, PG sims aren't there to protect minors, they aren't supposed to be on the main grid. It is for people who don't want to be exposed to 'any' adult content which is fine. Mature sims represent freedom more than anything else. I don't have to worry about what I say or I can change clothes without some namby pamby calling a Linden.

3 reasons why mature content won't be separated from the mainland:

1. It would be a ton of work to get all the sims rearranged in some form that makes sense, especially with linden infrastructure such as roads running through everything.

2. The remaining paltry number of PG sims even bunched together would not make for a very impressive main continent.

3. SL has become a mature, adult themed application. Its unfortunate, but thats the way it is and it will only get worse. To now attempt to cater to mainstream masses would be a lie and false advertising.

People with sexual preferences outside the mainstream found Second Life and discovered that it has an amazing capability to fulfill their fantasies. Those early sexual pioneers told their friends with the same fetish interest about SL. When those people then made referrals, it was again to others they knew with the same sexual preferences.

As many people hide their fetishes from their families and coworkers, the only people they could refer without possibly disclosing a secret part of their lives was other practitioners. With the referral system being the major source of new players the loop continues.

Once the process started, in conjunction with fees that dwarf any other MMOG, all hope for SL becoming a major mainstream force vanished. SL will become a fetish oasis, along with the merchants that cater to their wants and needs.

Don't get me wrong, I think this is a good thing. People need a place where they feel they belong, and SL certainly can be an outlet like no other for living out those fantasies. But SL will never be the Metaverse seed. I look forward to the next great virtual community application, and hope they will learn from SL and cater more to mainstream sensibilities with their budding user base.

eh i think even a single slight change to the current system would proabbyl work pretty well, and enable alot more PG land to be alot more viable for most people...

effectively create a 'middle' standard between PG and Mature...

whatever you want to call it, lets say 'Rated R' or what have you...

Allow anyone in a pg sim to 'shift' their land up a notch to rated r, allowing people to curse abit more freely, and be free from the worry about abuse reports for most minor infractions that would otherwise potentially cause problems in pg areas, such as 'see throughable' semi transparent shirts etc.. again think about what the standard of a current r movie would be..

now additionally allow people in mature sims to set their land 'down' to r from M which at this point we cold consider to be more like a cross between NC-17 and X ratings...

This would offer people in mature sims abit of leeway in keeping the overal peace/order of their builds, and asking people to put away certain attachments or infinitely looping video panels, etc..

any pg plot that borders an m sim, and any m plot that borders a pg sim, would automatically be assumed to be in the 'R' state, unless their owners specifically decided otherwise, whereas current pg land would by default stay pg, and current mature land would by default stay mature.

aka allow a sort of 'compromised' middle ground between the current strictly pg, and anarchistic mature rules, and allow people to select what their personal preferences would be... if every plot in a pg sim was then set to R, aka NO plots were pg, the sim itself could be considered for 're-zoning' to mature, and the same holds true for every plot in a mature sim being set to R, as consideration for the entire sim being moved to PG.

It would allow a more fluid, and less 'directly dichotomistic' sim on sim transition, as well as potentially de-factionalizing the 'pg' and 'mature' sim camps

note: this is not my original idea, this comes from a series of talks a great number of people have had in SL, and tho i can't credit them all individually, i think this is a really good idea overall, with alot of input from both sides, compared to some other rather poorly thought out ones

Now we finally get some action in this thread


Yes, and minors are not supposed to carry guns, but still, some do. This will always be a problem, but still they are a few compared to the rest.


The majority of countries have about the same laws in this issue. But the intresting here is, who has the right to decide what is mature and immature? There are things not rated mature by the law that others believe is mature.

I guess you have small modifications to the laws depending on the state as well.

How will you keep minors from entering the red light district anyway. They have used someone elses creditcard so you can't tell if they are minor or adults.


And where will you se mature things constantly? What will happend if you se mature material once in a while? Growing hair in your palms? There are a lot of other countries, with low crime rate, nice people and polite minors. They are not turning into warewolfs if they see someone in a "sexy" bikini (for example).

I can underswtand that pornographic material can be offencive, but I think that was forbiden in LS anyway.


For what? being in a room with bikini babes? I think people wan't more for the money
(Edited) Sorry, didnt see your issue about pedaphilic interaction. But first of all you have to be 18 to be here. Yes there are a few minors but you can't tell who is a minor by look anyway. A phedophil will have a heck of a job to find one here (a lot of talking). I think they go to the teen chat rooms on AOL instead. To much job for them here.(End of edit)


Really, does SL have a "sexual watering hole" reputation? that was new to me. I have not seen anything too "mature" (yet). The best way to kill this kind of reputation is to tell these people what you actually se here.

I doubt you really know what fetish truly is. Did you know that the most common fetish is women shoes, but you area kinda right there. There is a lot of high heels in LS

Intresting that you didn't comment NRA

Sorry if I'm going on here, but I'm really tierd of this morality for "nothing".
More Love to the people...

Yes, I did.

Sorry Editorial Hare I didn't see the connection. With NRA I meant that if you really want to protect the minors, young adults or anyone else. You should work for harder restrictions on weapons (in real life) instead of a glims of poor computer generated naked skin in a virtual world.

Didnt bother reading the whole thread. Just looked at the proposition. The only advantage would be that you could buy that plot with the great view and build your whorehouse on it and not be restricted by the PG designation. Theres plenty of mature sims with great views to put your whorehouse on. My Voyeur Lounge has a great view, limited only by this big giant weird thing somebody decided to build on an island out in the bay. (wtf??)
But otherwise, why mess with the poor folk who dont want to live next to a whorehouse?
(Getting lagged down by all the sexballs and streaming porn PG is designated for those who prefer lighter and fluffier entertainment. Dont impose your own darker tastes on those who may not share in its delights.

Eh... maybe so, but in the existing system, I don't seem to be having a problem avoiding these fetishists or whoever. Seems like they are happy enough to stay on M land (and there's a lot more of it, after all). And I'm happy to let them do so.

As the one who started this thread, let me make my position clear again: I'm not asking for the existing system to be changed to limit folks who have bought Mature land, in any way. It's too bad about border areas, but I haven't personally encountered that problem or heard from anyone who has. My only concern is that the existing system, PG land, which works just fine for me, would be altered under this proposal. Broadening to include "R" land or something would be ok by me, and might help people who aren't planning on running an explicitly sexually oriented build, but just want to be able to cuss or cuddle in peace. Seems like the M landowners have more of a stake in that sort of proposal. Maybe someone should post it for vote.

I just find it disturbing that this proposal still sits at 13th place out of 417. And damn, the "pony" proposal got accepted, with only 177 votes, so who knows what LL will do.

neko

What happend with this discussion? Did it die? I didn't mean to kill it, just to get a serious debate.