Second Life Forums Archive - On the Subject of Alternate Accounts

Editorial Hare

Second Life Resident

Join date: 11 Nov 2004

Posts: 116

11-12-2004 07:11

November 11, 2004

To any party of interest,

On the Subject of Alternate Accounts

There has been some amount of discussion on the subject of alternate accounts. In general terms I feel that having alternates is a great boon to the game aspect of Second Life. You can role play a personality. Many MMORPG's provide this feature. And in many other programs this feature is “gamed”.

In Everquest an alternate is a pack mule. You are provided with a limited inventory and the alternate serves as a bank extension. They are also used as your store, they sit idle in the Bazaar while your main account is gather up more loot. They allow the player to explore other roles in the group.

On the more exploitive side alternates have been used to facilitate camping rare spawn sites, raise skills without risk, allow for scam sales to other players, and in duplicate item bug schemes.

In Second Life most of these exploits aren't really pertinent. We have an infinite inventory, there is no reason to exploit an item duplication bug when you can make copies at a whim. The one exploitive aspect of the Second Life alternate is for dwell.

This, in my opinion, isn't much of an exploit, since the primary reward is a place on the popular places list. In other words, advertising. In my research the monetary rewards for high dwell are, as compared to the costs, pointless for the great majority of places. For those few places on the very top of these lists that arguably could be construed is receiving a significant reward for this practice, through developer awards, they don't seem to be making much more than their costs.

It has been made clear to me through information passed to the user base through town hall meetings that the ability to role play another persona is held in some regard by Linden Lab. The reluctance to provide voice capabilities until masking technology can be implemented properly speaks volumes.

There has been a call of late to provide information on the forums to provide information linking alternate accounts to their owners. If the ability to role play is to remain a viable feature in Second Life then the linking of accounts to the player behind the keyboard must not be considered. Unveiling the players of the dwell game in my opinion is not worth disrupting this ability to explore other personalities.

Ed -

Disclaimer

As you may gather from the tone and subject of this post, the account name Editorial Hare is what has been termed an alternate account. It has been created to allow the thoughts of multiple patrons of the program Second Life to be complied and shared as a coherent unit.

It has the further purpose of shielding this group from in world retribution.

We feel that our ideas are in the best interest of the future of Second Life. We have seen many people propose and express thoughts that to us appeared sane, measured, and competent be harassed, some to the point of leaving Second Life. There doesn't appear to be a group that has not used this harassment tactic to bolster their forum opinions inside the game. For this reason we have come to the conclusion “you cannot win”, Someone will always oppose you, and therefore you will be persecuted, no matter how insignificant your opinion or project.

It was felt that with the current forum atmosphere no significant progress could be made by airing our opinions. In the past we have merely held our tongues, and let things progress as they will. But we have now come to the point where we feel significant changes are occurring that threaten to leave Second Life in a state which we feel to be unpalatable.

Our feeling is that a great many people may also feel this way, but have similar privacy concerns which prevent them from airing their ideas. We know many people that have given up reading the forums entirely, including most of our membership at times. We now see that ignoring them is as dangerous to our enjoyment of Second Life as the forums existence in the first place.

As with any group of people in Second Life, our opinions can vary to a great degree. In posting with Editorial Hare we will try to find a level of consensus amongst ourselves.

Also understand that the thoughts expressed here are filtered through one person, the actual poster, and as such unconsciously take the direction of that person. As “The Poster” I will attempt to reign in my personal opinions and provide as unbiased a view as possible for the group.
We have chosen this account to be our mouthpiece. In the interest of coherence this account will posting in a first person style. As we have no intention of providing our group members identities or numbers it makes more sense to post as a single identity, “Ed”.

As an alternate, this account has much less force of reputation than if we were using our “main accounts” to air these opinions. In order to enjoy Second Life we have given up the benefits of our reputation. We feel this to be a worthwhile trade off to be able to express our ideas in peace. “Ed” will have to be sufficient.

Pendari Lorentz

Senior Member

Join date: 5 Sep 2003

Posts: 4,372

11-12-2004 08:21

Interesting post no matter which side of the argument you stand on. Nice.

_____________________

*hugs everyone*

Kris Ritter

paradoxical embolism

Join date: 31 Oct 2003

Posts: 6,627

11-12-2004 08:23

From: Pendari Lorentz

Interesting post no matter which side of the argument you stand on. Nice.

Pfft, and whos alt are you, Lorentz?

Pendari Lorentz

Senior Member

Join date: 5 Sep 2003

Posts: 4,372

11-12-2004 08:30

From: Kris Ritter

Pfft, and whos alt are you, Lorentz?

haha.. wouldn't you like to know!!

Seriously though, I have no alts. Though I can see reasons behind them. I prefer to just live by what I say and do as me. No matter the consequences.

_____________________

*hugs everyone*

David Valentino

Nicely Wicked

Join date: 1 Jan 2004

Posts: 2,941

11-12-2004 08:48

From: Kris Ritter

Pfft, and whos alt are you, Lorentz?

haha.. wouldn't you like to know!!

Seriously though, I have no alts. Though I can see reasons behind them. I prefer to just live by what I say and do as me. No matter the consequences.

EDIT: Oops..sorry! I posted this under the wrong account *blush*

_____________________

David Lamoreaux

Owner - Perilous Pleasures and Extreme Erotica Gallery

Pendari Lorentz

Senior Member

Join date: 5 Sep 2003

Posts: 4,372

11-12-2004 08:49

LOL David!!!

_____________________

*hugs everyone*

Wally Welesa

Second Life Resident

Join date: 2 Nov 2004

Posts: 8

Alts

11-15-2004 08:38

I have 4 alts and each one of them has at least a half dozen or a dozen "looks". Wait. I *am* the alt to the main av. Or is he my alt??

I need them.

I don't see any financial reward to them, even allowing for the extra dwell or stipends, because they are all mouths that have to be fed. They all need to have their tuxedos, ball gowns, military uniforms, and what-have-you, and most of the best clothes aren't copiable and have to be re-bought. They also need vehicles, houses, props, contest money, etc.

"I am large. I contain multitudes." Walt Whitman

Wiggle Biggles

Second Life Resident

Join date: 18 Oct 2004

Posts: 645

11-15-2004 08:56

Please stop IMing me about who this alternate account actually belongs to. As I have stated Editorial Hare is a group is a group of individuals who choose to remain anonymous.

Scarlett Fonzarelli

Registered User

Join date: 18 Feb 2004

Posts: 36

11-15-2004 09:23

True, alternate accounts CAN be more fun...if you can afford them...and if you do NOT go around slandering other people and their friends....JUST because they want nothing to do with you. Yes...and alt account can harrass avatars they don't like in SL, and yes...slander DOES go on!

However, some of us who know how to behave like ADULTS and not head cases can only pity these accounts....and look forward to their eventually getting bored with not getting the attention they so desparately crave using the wrong methods. I say to all alt accounts who behave like this: Go ahead and have your little temper tantrums...just because Mommy didn't hug you enough in childhood...then pick yourself up and behave. Maybe THEN you will get someone to pay attention to you. Just my humble opinion.

Thanks

Shadow Weaver

Ancient

Join date: 13 Jan 2003

Posts: 2,808

11-15-2004 09:50

Um, one useful thing an Alternate account is good for now days.

Storage. Yes Storage. In the past it wasnt so bad to keep your things on yourself but here lately with the log in time qued directly to your inventory having an alt account is benificial not only to yourself but to others that play.

Hmm How so? Well for instance, You have a week were multitude of gifts pictures and misc clothes are dumped on you. Well frist thing that will happen will be your log in time increases. Second it will take longer for the server to search through your inventory for pertinent data to rez ..clothes/buildings/particles and multitued of other objects.

With an alt you can set all your permissions to copy mod transfer and dump em on your alt thus effectively being able to "Clean" out your inventory.

Why is this good it benifits all when your lagless and they dont have to be digging through your inventory just to find the appropriate texture to paste on your avatar.

my .02$ Shadow.

_____________________

Everyone here is an adult. This ain't DisneyLand, and Mickey Mouse isn't going to swat you with a stick if you say "holy crapola."<Pathfinder Linden>

New Worlds new Adventures
Formerly known as Jade Wolf my business name has now changed to Dragon Shadow.

Im me in world for Locations of my apparrel

Online Authorized Trademark Licensed Apparel
http://www.cafepress.com/slvisions
OR Visit The Website @
www.slvisions.com

Siggy Romulus

DILLIGAF

Join date: 22 Sep 2003

Posts: 5,711

11-15-2004 09:50

I have 2 alt accounts.

They are Juro Kothari and Darko Cellardoor.

In return I am an alt shared between Paris Cellardoor and Cyrus Apollo (this accounts for my hair and style of clothing).

Siggy.

_____________________

The Second Life forums are living proof as to why it's illegal for people to have sex with farm animals.

From: Jesse Linden

I, for one, am highly un-helped by this thread

Wiggle Biggles

Second Life Resident

Join date: 18 Oct 2004

Posts: 645

11-15-2004 09:54

When an alt falls in the forest and there is no one around to hear, does it make a sound?

Paris Cellardoor

Jefa del Cartel

Join date: 28 Dec 2003

Posts: 867

11-15-2004 09:57

From: Siggy Romulus

I have 2 alt accounts.

They are Juro Kothari and Darko Cellardoor.

In return I am an alt shared between Paris Cellardoor and Cyrus Apollo (this accounts for my hair and style of clothing).

Siggy.

HAHA!!

Love ya Sig!!

_____________________

La Realidad

FUGWB

Elle Pollack

Takes internets seriously

Join date: 12 Oct 2004

Posts: 796

11-16-2004 15:01

Opinion: keeping track of a person's alts is a necessity for the people who run a game, so that they can properly handle abuse incidents (someone using an alt to get around a ban/suspention, be a griefer, etc. I used to be a staff member on a MUCK (text based online RPG) where part of my job included taking griefers out of the main area of the game into a sort of player jail, repremanding them and recomending them for banning if nessicary. So I do know a little something about this sort of thing.

BUT: Info about alt accounts should NEVER be revealed to the players by the game's staff. The right to keep one's alts private or not lies solely with the players and is a mater of privacy. If someone is using alts to abuse the system, then it's the Linden's problem.

What about using alts to inflate dwell? It would certianly be possible for the Lindens to recode the dwell system so multiple alts in the same place don't contribute to dwell. However, I suspect that it will come down to their bottom line: Is it more profitable for them to let players waste their money on alt accounts (for reasons that don't constitute TOS violations) or to pay out dwell to places where this is practiced and deal with the player complaints?

Rysidian Rubio

Ruby Red Head

Join date: 14 Jan 2004

Posts: 263

11-16-2004 18:35

One reason for Alts is for group land.

You get a 10% bonus added to your land allowance for land allocated to a group, so if you want to solely own your land but still get the 10% bonus, then you have to create a group containing only yourself and 2 alts (minimum number of members of a group is 3).

Vuuduu Hoodoo

Hell's Belle

Join date: 16 Nov 2004

Posts: 38

11-16-2004 20:11

Some people create alts because they want to get away from the burden of their usual account and go under the radar try something totally different like being a horny demoness. It is a lot of fun....................I dont know how it happened one minute I was fighting with Juro and the next minute we were flirting. Long live alt accounts and prim shoes! Starley's stiletto boots are fabu though she discriminates by not having makeup for bright red skin.

On the Subject of Alternate Accounts
Editorial Hare Second Life Resident Join date: 11 Nov 2004 Posts: 116	11-12-2004 07:11 November 11, 2004 To any party of interest, On the Subject of Alternate Accounts There has been some amount of discussion on the subject of alternate accounts. In general terms I feel that having alternates is a great boon to the game aspect of Second Life. You can role play a personality. Many MMORPG's provide this feature. And in many other programs this feature is “gamed”. In Everquest an alternate is a pack mule. You are provided with a limited inventory and the alternate serves as a bank extension. They are also used as your store, they sit idle in the Bazaar while your main account is gather up more loot. They allow the player to explore other roles in the group. On the more exploitive side alternates have been used to facilitate camping rare spawn sites, raise skills without risk, allow for scam sales to other players, and in duplicate item bug schemes. In Second Life most of these exploits aren't really pertinent. We have an infinite inventory, there is no reason to exploit an item duplication bug when you can make copies at a whim. The one exploitive aspect of the Second Life alternate is for dwell. This, in my opinion, isn't much of an exploit, since the primary reward is a place on the popular places list. In other words, advertising. In my research the monetary rewards for high dwell are, as compared to the costs, pointless for the great majority of places. For those few places on the very top of these lists that arguably could be construed is receiving a significant reward for this practice, through developer awards, they don't seem to be making much more than their costs. It has been made clear to me through information passed to the user base through town hall meetings that the ability to role play another persona is held in some regard by Linden Lab. The reluctance to provide voice capabilities until masking technology can be implemented properly speaks volumes. There has been a call of late to provide information on the forums to provide information linking alternate accounts to their owners. If the ability to role play is to remain a viable feature in Second Life then the linking of accounts to the player behind the keyboard must not be considered. Unveiling the players of the dwell game in my opinion is not worth disrupting this ability to explore other personalities. Ed - Disclaimer As you may gather from the tone and subject of this post, the account name Editorial Hare is what has been termed an alternate account. It has been created to allow the thoughts of multiple patrons of the program Second Life to be complied and shared as a coherent unit. It has the further purpose of shielding this group from in world retribution. We feel that our ideas are in the best interest of the future of Second Life. We have seen many people propose and express thoughts that to us appeared sane, measured, and competent be harassed, some to the point of leaving Second Life. There doesn't appear to be a group that has not used this harassment tactic to bolster their forum opinions inside the game. For this reason we have come to the conclusion “you cannot win”, Someone will always oppose you, and therefore you will be persecuted, no matter how insignificant your opinion or project. It was felt that with the current forum atmosphere no significant progress could be made by airing our opinions. In the past we have merely held our tongues, and let things progress as they will. But we have now come to the point where we feel significant changes are occurring that threaten to leave Second Life in a state which we feel to be unpalatable. Our feeling is that a great many people may also feel this way, but have similar privacy concerns which prevent them from airing their ideas. We know many people that have given up reading the forums entirely, including most of our membership at times. We now see that ignoring them is as dangerous to our enjoyment of Second Life as the forums existence in the first place. As with any group of people in Second Life, our opinions can vary to a great degree. In posting with Editorial Hare we will try to find a level of consensus amongst ourselves. Also understand that the thoughts expressed here are filtered through one person, the actual poster, and as such unconsciously take the direction of that person. As “The Poster” I will attempt to reign in my personal opinions and provide as unbiased a view as possible for the group. We have chosen this account to be our mouthpiece. In the interest of coherence this account will posting in a first person style. As we have no intention of providing our group members identities or numbers it makes more sense to post as a single identity, “Ed”. As an alternate, this account has much less force of reputation than if we were using our “main accounts” to air these opinions. In order to enjoy Second Life we have given up the benefits of our reputation. We feel this to be a worthwhile trade off to be able to express our ideas in peace. “Ed” will have to be sufficient.
Pendari Lorentz Senior Member Join date: 5 Sep 2003 Posts: 4,372	11-12-2004 08:21 Interesting post no matter which side of the argument you stand on. Nice. _____________________ hugs everyone
Kris Ritter paradoxical embolism Join date: 31 Oct 2003 Posts: 6,627	11-12-2004 08:23 From: Pendari Lorentz Interesting post no matter which side of the argument you stand on. Nice. Pfft, and whos alt are you, Lorentz?
Pendari Lorentz Senior Member Join date: 5 Sep 2003 Posts: 4,372	11-12-2004 08:30 From: Kris Ritter Pfft, and whos alt are you, Lorentz? haha.. wouldn't you like to know!! Seriously though, I have no alts. Though I can see reasons behind them. I prefer to just live by what I say and do as me. No matter the consequences. _____________________ hugs everyone
David Valentino Nicely Wicked Join date: 1 Jan 2004 Posts: 2,941	11-12-2004 08:48 From: Kris Ritter Pfft, and whos alt are you, Lorentz? haha.. wouldn't you like to know!! Seriously though, I have no alts. Though I can see reasons behind them. I prefer to just live by what I say and do as me. No matter the consequences. EDIT: Oops..sorry! I posted this under the wrong account blush _____________________ David Lamoreaux Owner - Perilous Pleasures and Extreme Erotica Gallery
Pendari Lorentz Senior Member Join date: 5 Sep 2003 Posts: 4,372	11-12-2004 08:49 LOL David!!! _____________________ hugs everyone
Wally Welesa Second Life Resident Join date: 2 Nov 2004 Posts: 8	Alts 11-15-2004 08:38 I have 4 alts and each one of them has at least a half dozen or a dozen "looks". Wait. I am the alt to the main av. Or is he my alt?? I need them. I don't see any financial reward to them, even allowing for the extra dwell or stipends, because they are all mouths that have to be fed. They all need to have their tuxedos, ball gowns, military uniforms, and what-have-you, and most of the best clothes aren't copiable and have to be re-bought. They also need vehicles, houses, props, contest money, etc. "I am large. I contain multitudes." Walt Whitman
Wiggle Biggles Second Life Resident Join date: 18 Oct 2004 Posts: 645	11-15-2004 08:56 Please stop IMing me about who this alternate account actually belongs to. As I have stated Editorial Hare is a group is a group of individuals who choose to remain anonymous.
Scarlett Fonzarelli Registered User Join date: 18 Feb 2004 Posts: 36	11-15-2004 09:23 True, alternate accounts CAN be more fun...if you can afford them...and if you do NOT go around slandering other people and their friends....JUST because they want nothing to do with you. Yes...and alt account can harrass avatars they don't like in SL, and yes...slander DOES go on! However, some of us who know how to behave like ADULTS and not head cases can only pity these accounts....and look forward to their eventually getting bored with not getting the attention they so desparately crave using the wrong methods. I say to all alt accounts who behave like this: Go ahead and have your little temper tantrums...just because Mommy didn't hug you enough in childhood...then pick yourself up and behave. Maybe THEN you will get someone to pay attention to you. Just my humble opinion. Thanks
Shadow Weaver Ancient Join date: 13 Jan 2003 Posts: 2,808	11-15-2004 09:50 Um, one useful thing an Alternate account is good for now days. Storage. Yes Storage. In the past it wasnt so bad to keep your things on yourself but here lately with the log in time qued directly to your inventory having an alt account is benificial not only to yourself but to others that play. Hmm How so? Well for instance, You have a week were multitude of gifts pictures and misc clothes are dumped on you. Well frist thing that will happen will be your log in time increases. Second it will take longer for the server to search through your inventory for pertinent data to rez ..clothes/buildings/particles and multitued of other objects. With an alt you can set all your permissions to copy mod transfer and dump em on your alt thus effectively being able to "Clean" out your inventory. Why is this good it benifits all when your lagless and they dont have to be digging through your inventory just to find the appropriate texture to paste on your avatar. my .02$ Shadow. _____________________ Everyone here is an adult. This ain't DisneyLand, and Mickey Mouse isn't going to swat you with a stick if you say "holy crapola."<Pathfinder Linden> New Worlds new Adventures Formerly known as Jade Wolf my business name has now changed to Dragon Shadow. Im me in world for Locations of my apparrel Online Authorized Trademark Licensed Apparel http://www.cafepress.com/slvisions OR Visit The Website @ www.slvisions.com
Siggy Romulus DILLIGAF Join date: 22 Sep 2003 Posts: 5,711	11-15-2004 09:50 I have 2 alt accounts. They are Juro Kothari and Darko Cellardoor. In return I am an alt shared between Paris Cellardoor and Cyrus Apollo (this accounts for my hair and style of clothing). Siggy. _____________________ The Second Life forums are living proof as to why it's illegal for people to have sex with farm animals. From: Jesse Linden I, for one, am highly un-helped by this thread
Wiggle Biggles Second Life Resident Join date: 18 Oct 2004 Posts: 645	11-15-2004 09:54 When an alt falls in the forest and there is no one around to hear, does it make a sound?
Paris Cellardoor Jefa del Cartel Join date: 28 Dec 2003 Posts: 867	11-15-2004 09:57 From: Siggy Romulus I have 2 alt accounts. They are Juro Kothari and Darko Cellardoor. In return I am an alt shared between Paris Cellardoor and Cyrus Apollo (this accounts for my hair and style of clothing). Siggy. HAHA!! Love ya Sig!! _____________________ La Realidad FUGWB
Elle Pollack Takes internets seriously Join date: 12 Oct 2004 Posts: 796	11-16-2004 15:01 Opinion: keeping track of a person's alts is a necessity for the people who run a game, so that they can properly handle abuse incidents (someone using an alt to get around a ban/suspention, be a griefer, etc. I used to be a staff member on a MUCK (text based online RPG) where part of my job included taking griefers out of the main area of the game into a sort of player jail, repremanding them and recomending them for banning if nessicary. So I do know a little something about this sort of thing. BUT: Info about alt accounts should NEVER be revealed to the players by the game's staff. The right to keep one's alts private or not lies solely with the players and is a mater of privacy. If someone is using alts to abuse the system, then it's the Linden's problem. What about using alts to inflate dwell? It would certianly be possible for the Lindens to recode the dwell system so multiple alts in the same place don't contribute to dwell. However, I suspect that it will come down to their bottom line: Is it more profitable for them to let players waste their money on alt accounts (for reasons that don't constitute TOS violations) or to pay out dwell to places where this is practiced and deal with the player complaints?
Rysidian Rubio Ruby Red Head Join date: 14 Jan 2004 Posts: 263	11-16-2004 18:35 One reason for Alts is for group land. You get a 10% bonus added to your land allowance for land allocated to a group, so if you want to solely own your land but still get the 10% bonus, then you have to create a group containing only yourself and 2 alts (minimum number of members of a group is 3).
Vuuduu Hoodoo Hell's Belle Join date: 16 Nov 2004 Posts: 38	11-16-2004 20:11 Some people create alts because they want to get away from the burden of their usual account and go under the radar try something totally different like being a horny demoness. It is a lot of fun....................I dont know how it happened one minute I was fighting with Juro and the next minute we were flirting. Long live alt accounts and prim shoes! Starley's stiletto boots are fabu though she discriminates by not having makeup for bright red skin.

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On the Subject of Alternate Accounts