A Reasonable P2P Solution
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Strife Onizuka
Moonchild
Join date: 3 Mar 2004
Posts: 5,887
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11-23-2005 00:14
The major debate over Point To Point Teleporting (P2PT) is how to implement it without drastically changing economy and society. There are a few flavors of P2PT that are being discussed, I will compare them and add in my own "Hotspot", - Telehub - Users can only tp to telehubs
- Raw - User can TP anywhere anytime
- Land Restricted - User can TP anywhere anytime if the destination land owner allows
- Hotspot - User can TP anywhere anytime if the destination land owner allows and if the destination is with in 500 meters of a telehub (otherwise they are taken to the closest telehub).
- Classifieds - Usualy present as either Raw or Land Restricted; see those two for details.
Disadvantages:- Telehub - Users can only tp to telehubs
- Land Restricted & Raw - No or little Privacy, Everywhere becomes commercial interesting, promotes urban sprawl. Places that were once the middle of nowhere are now commercially viable, to the possible dismay of the residents of those areas. Land around telehubs becomes devalued, Flash mobs in backwaters.
- Hotspot - If an area is not in the hotspot range the old telehub would be used.
Advantages:- Telehub - Land around Telehub has higher values and are commercially more attractive. No flash mobs rare.
- Raw - Go Anywhere
- Land Restricted - Owner controls, if P2PT is enabled.
- Hotspot - Owner controls if P2PT is enabled, P2PT only works if in range of Telehub, Telehub land maintains most of it's value and commercial attractiveness. No flash mobs in backwaters.
Island owners should be allowed to decide between the four methods. Hotspots would server the equivalent of RL rapid transit. Of the 4 Proposals "Hotspot" is the best because it maintains the current system with limited degridation, possibly increasing the value of the land on the fringes with in a Hotspot.
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Truth is a river that is always splitting up into arms that reunite. Islanded between the arms, the inhabitants argue for a lifetime as to which is the main river.
- Cyril Connolly
Without the political will to find common ground, the continual friction of tactic and counter tactic, only creates suspicion and hatred and vengeance, and perpetuates the cycle of violence.
- James Nachtwey
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Argent Stonecutter
Emergency Mustelid
Join date: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 20,263
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11-23-2005 07:44
From: Eggy Lippmann *stamp*
Now that Basic accounts are free I paid for mine. Why? It was the only way to change my name, after I'd looked around a while and decided I didn't like my old one. |
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Argent Stonecutter
Emergency Mustelid
Join date: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 20,263
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11-23-2005 07:46
From: Huns Valen Telehubs are irritating and simulator handoff issues makes high-speed travel hazardous and annoying. Unless you have a Cygnus, eh?  Yeh, I know what you mean, but I was just flying in mine and having a grand old time... |
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Jeffrey Gomez
Cubed™
Join date: 11 Jun 2004
Posts: 3,522
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11-23-2005 08:12
This discussion has become slightly obsolete due to recent events.Updated thread found here: /13/92/73303/1.html
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Surreal Farber
Cat Herder
Join date: 5 Feb 2004
Posts: 2,059
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11-23-2005 11:51
From: Magnum Serpentine I am the Author of the Proposal that has now gotten us p2p. I reject the proposal you mention P2P is for everyone not the Elite. And P2P as I wrote the proposal is free and to be used by ALL. and All means ALL. not just the elite. Who the hell are these so-called elite?
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Surreal
Phobos 3d Design - putting the hot in psychotic since 2004
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Strife Onizuka
Moonchild
Join date: 3 Mar 2004
Posts: 5,887
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11-24-2005 04:33
From: Surreal Farber Who the hell are these so-called elite? The 20% of the SL userbase that account for 70% of the economic inflation and own 100% of the land. The premium uses.
_____________________
Truth is a river that is always splitting up into arms that reunite. Islanded between the arms, the inhabitants argue for a lifetime as to which is the main river.
- Cyril Connolly
Without the political will to find common ground, the continual friction of tactic and counter tactic, only creates suspicion and hatred and vengeance, and perpetuates the cycle of violence.
- James Nachtwey
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Sable Sunset
Prim Herder
Join date: 15 Apr 2005
Posts: 223
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Spot On!
11-24-2005 05:10
I came to the same idea in another thread and feel it's the most elegant solution to all of the problems with dropping telehubs in favour of P2P. Specifically, this is how I set out my arguement: From: Sable Sunset I still don't agree that P2P should be entirely embraced and become the only way for anyone to TP to anywhere - there are some elements of SL that add to the general in-world atmosphere and the telehubs are one of them. I'd like to propose a slightly different suggestion to most I've seen here - I'd like to see both both solutions implemented - Telehubs and P2P. The P2P solution should, IMHO, be set out so that if you TP to a destination (whether through map-clicking or landmark), you are by default dropped off at the nearest telehub UNLESS the parcel you are TPing to has a 'TP Landing point' set - the same way you set Home now. Only the land owner, or member of the officers of the owning group can set/move/remove this. Additionally, if you don't have security access to the land (on the ban list, or not part of the right group) you should also be dropped at the nearest telehub. If you TP by map-clicking I'd suggest that you should always be dropped at the nearest telehub, with the destination highlighted by the pillar of red. My reasoning behind this suggestion is that you are going to be using this kind of TP for exploration mainly - if you know where you're going you would probably already have an LM for the destination. Besides, it very neatly steps around the problem with TPing onto someone's neighbour's land because they have a TP Dropoff point set - but there person you're going to see doesn't want people TPing ont their land so they leave it turned off. Additionally (and this is the significant difference) - this feature should only be open to Premium members. LL are looking for ways to encourage the conversion from Basic accounts to Premium - this would be another attractive feature. This would leave the Telehub infrastructure in place - the Telehubs would remain commerce hotspots to an extent, but would also carry a slight reduction easing the pain of such a dramatic change to telehub area economy. I feel that this solution is the one that caters for the widest range of tastes - and may actually provide LL with an added advantage too. Oh! Two other things: 1: Neighbours that want to share a TP Dropoff for their neighbourhood would only need to split off a small parcel of land and set the TP Dropoff point there - then leave off the TP Dropoff on their own parcels. 2: LL - Please, please, please, please, please don't forget the associated LSL additions that would make this an integrated and useful tool: llSetTPDropoff() - to set the TP Dropoff location to the current position of the container prim - should spark a nice market in 'TP Receiver objects' llSetTP(integer onoff) - Turn TP Dropoff on or off without changing the location. /me gets down of soapbox... carries it away...  Edit: Just wanted to add that the main reason I don't agree with the free-for-all of being able to TP wherever you want is a question of choice. Everyone has a right to wander around and look at everything in SL - but they also have a right to not have people appearing in their lab during product development, bedroom at a private moment, or living room during a gossip-fest Look on it as having your phone ex-directory in an attempt to stop people cold-calling This is the most rounded use of the current offering I can think of. The original post and thread can be found here: /20/89/73209/5.html#post760863 |
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Sable Sunset
Prim Herder
Join date: 15 Apr 2005
Posts: 223
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Oops.. forgot something...
11-24-2005 05:42
Further to my previous post above I forgot to mention that this method of P2P and Telehub implementation has already been put forward as a Proposal that you can vote on by going here: http://secondlife.com/vote/index.php?get_id=757 Thx! |
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Aliasi Stonebender
Return of Catbread
Join date: 30 Jan 2005
Posts: 1,858
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11-24-2005 05:48
From: Strife Onizuka The 20% of the SL userbase that account for 70% of the economic inflation and own 100% of the land. The premium uses. On the other hand (although I don't believe in limiting P2P teleporting in this way) they also account for 100% of the actual money coming into Linden Labs. 
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Argent Stonecutter
Emergency Mustelid
Join date: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 20,263
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11-25-2005 08:01
From: Aliasi Stonebender On the other hand (although I don't believe in limiting P2P teleporting in this way) they also account for 100% of the actual money coming into Linden Labs. ... the actual money coming directly to Linden Labs ... After all, the money LL gets from Anshe and other Alliez and other rental property owners comes from the renters, many of whom are Basic account holders. The same is true of the money that pays tier on mall space that comes from people who shop in those malls. The money that goes to Linden Labs comes from the Linden Economy, which is supported both by direct payments and by US$ to L$ transfers through exchanges and through cash object purchases at websites. |
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Aliasi Stonebender
Return of Catbread
Join date: 30 Jan 2005
Posts: 1,858
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11-25-2005 13:58
From: Argent Stonecutter ... the actual money coming directly to Linden Labs ...
After all, the money LL gets from Anshe and other Alliez and other rental property owners comes from the renters, many of whom are Basic account holders. The same is true of the money that pays tier on mall space that comes from people who shop in those malls. The money that goes to Linden Labs comes from the Linden Economy, which is supported both by direct payments and by US$ to L$ transfers through exchanges and through cash object purchases at websites. Oh, certainly. I was being a bit hyperbolic for a laugh. That said, I also feel a basic account who's essentially "premium" except they don't get the $500 stipend - that is, they have access to a fair quantity of land through rental, have an emotional investment in SL itself - much the same argument still applies.
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Red Mary says, softly, “How a man grows aggressive when his enemy displays propriety. He thinks: I will use this good behavior to enforce my advantage over her. Is it any wonder people hold good behavior in such disregard?”
Anything Surplus Home to the "Nuke the Crap Out of..." series of games and other stuff
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Argent Stonecutter
Emergency Mustelid
Join date: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 20,263
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11-25-2005 15:59
From: Aliasi Stonebender I also feel a basic account who's essentially "premium" except they don't get the $500 stipend - that is, they have access to a fair quantity of land through rental, have an emotional investment in SL itself - much the same argument still applies. I don't rent land, but I do spend a fair amount of money on other property in SL, certainly enough that if I was setting up a moderate sized plot it wouldn't cost me more. How would you gauge my "emotional investment"? |
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Aliasi Stonebender
Return of Catbread
Join date: 30 Jan 2005
Posts: 1,858
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11-25-2005 16:35
From: Argent Stonecutter I don't rent land, but I do spend a fair amount of money on other property in SL, certainly enough that if I was setting up a moderate sized plot it wouldn't cost me more. How would you gauge my "emotional investment"? In such a case, I fail to see the issue at hand. Part of the original line of thought, other than this fiddling semantics stuff, was something that benefited the great majority of people who pay into LL was preferable, even if it was not a benefit to a few large "stakeholders". If you're putting money into the system, however indirectly, I'd say the same argument applies. Certainly, the plain-jane basic account who never buys L$ and earns it exclusively inworld might not object, but it's rather to the side of the thrust of the argument.
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Red Mary says, softly, “How a man grows aggressive when his enemy displays propriety. He thinks: I will use this good behavior to enforce my advantage over her. Is it any wonder people hold good behavior in such disregard?”
Anything Surplus Home to the "Nuke the Crap Out of..." series of games and other stuff
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Oz Spade
ReadsNoPostLongerThanHand
Join date: 23 Sep 2003
Posts: 2,708
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11-25-2005 17:11
I dislike this idea.
There.com does a similar feature (or did), where you had to pay extra to get a map and/or compass. It's very inconvient to new and potential users.
Part of the thing that makes the Free Basic SL accounts so great is that they practicly have the same capabilities to any other account. Impairing them would be a bad move IMO.
So I say No to this.
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"Don't anticipate outcome," the man said. "Await the unfolding of events. Remain in the moment." - Konrad
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Argent Stonecutter
Emergency Mustelid
Join date: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 20,263
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11-25-2005 17:42
From: Aliasi Stonebender In such a case, I fail to see the issue at hand. Part of the original line of thought, other than this fiddling semantics stuff, was something that benefited the great majority of people who pay into LL was preferable, even if it was not a benefit to a few large "stakeholders". I had the suggestions that only Premium accounts should get elite new features like P2P in mind, but there's been so many twisty turns to this debate I may be completely lost which room I'm in. <montypython>Is this an argument or getting hit on the head?</> |