Return Telehubs to their intended purpose (with P2P)

Because I'm not touching that thread in Land and the Economy so far in, I'm tossing this idea out here.


Now. Telehubs have been a largely unsuccessful endeavor. The original intent had a logical fallacy - limiting the rights of the general population to create content distribution and advertising centers for the few. The fact it didn't work as intended is more or less a moot point.



So phase out the idea without making telehubs obsolete.

Here are my suggestions on the matter.


1) Make P2P part of the Premium Account

Khamon's been quoting me on this for a while, but it's really quite simple.

The intent of the Basic Account is to get people interested in Second Life enough to buy currency, land, or ultimately become a developer. $6 - 10 a month would not be an imposition, and would still expose newbies (the bulk of Basic accountholders) to telehubs. It would, furthermore, give another incentive to the Premium Account, generating revenue for LL, and increase demand in the land market.




2) Place a Linden "shuttle" at every telehub

Generate an automated script at each telehub that will fly a resident to Classified Ad locations within three sims. Make this cost a nominal fee, in line with the stipend of a Basic Account (read: L$10 or below)

This gives incentive to let the telehub rez all the way and less incentive to "telehub trap" residents if the shuttle flies straight up first.

Extra credit: Whisk them to above 768 or 2048 meters, avoiding rogue "ban" scripts.




3) Place "Approved" Freebie Game Kiosks at every telehub

Minigames are proven social devices. A chessboard or two at every hub would do wonders for activity, without drawing too much attention (or lag) from the rest of the sim.




4) Let residents "go inside" of the telehub

Convert them to a diner-like kiosk. I've been thinking they looked that way for a whole year and a half. Put in a few simple tables and chairs and leave it at that.




5) And FFS, DON'T "bid for resident builds" on this one

Unless you're prepared, as Lindens, to back them with what the work is worth in real dollars.




Discuss.

5) And FFS, DON'T "bid for resident builds" on this one

Unless you're prepared, as Lindens, to back them with what the work is worth in real dollars.

Huh?

I think resident building is cool. I think they need to arrange things in a way that ensures they're good builds though.

a) They need to keep us aware of how many bids for which stations
b) They need to keep prims down, so the bids are simple and clean
c) They need to give us time to make modifications after the fact

We can't really go into a lot of work if we don't know we're going to win. Let us sketch it out and then when we win, give us some direction and time to perfect it.

I also think that high payment isn't necessary.

However, I would like to see some kind of indication that people who do well on linden sponsored contests can get onto the developer list for building things for customers.

The final point is a tangential matter. I get a little annoyed seeing bids for "professional content" to residents that are then paid peanuts. (example)

It's a pet peeve of mine, but is so far from the point of this discussion that I'll leave it at that.

The various hindrances of travel have always been a bane to our three dimensional existence. I always wondered why, in a virtual world where travel really means nothing, the idea that travel should be hard was stuck so tightly in the Linden collective mind.

My only answer was that someone high up (Philip? Cory?) was utterly convinced that "Travel MUST Be Hard" and no amount of opinion otherwise would sway them.

In game design, adding an annoying difficulty purely as an attempt at game balance is always a bad idea. Sure, you may focus the gameplay more towards your ideal as the designer, but you are pissing off the people you are trying to entertain.

Better to design something that works RIGHT.

This becomes all the more important as so many people feel that Second Life isn't a game, but a service. However that argument swings, there should be even LESS drive to "balance" activities here, since there is less structure imposed by the developers.

Social engineering through annoyance is BAD.

If you want to do social engineering, don't force us to funnel through spot Q when we're just trying to get from A to B... Instead give us TOOLS to do the social engineering ourselves, not limitations.

First we have to ask ourselves, what was the previous moratorium on direct travel supposed to do? Then not "did it work", which is unimportant, but "do we even WANT to do that?"

The biggest "why" I've seen mentioned was zoning. The attempt to draw businesses together, geographically. The way, I think, to best do THAT is to massively expand the group tools. With the right slant to such new features, business owners may find it to their advantage to group together... Not because it's hard to get from place to place, but because "Geographical Business Collective X" has more and better known stores than "Geographical Business Collective Y", so will get more visitors and that benefits all the shops at that location because of line-of-sight.


Do social engineering through empowerment, not through restrictions and regulations.

Exactly so. The way I see it, telehubs should be useful, else they are obsolete and a hindrance.

If we are going to give the world P2P (again), let's return telehubs to their intended purpose: As points of interest to new residents that are valuable and offer a sense of place for their first steps into the world.

Ultimately, like-minded people collect together in Second Life anyway, as seen by the behavior of sims. But for the new resident, this social interaction may be perceived as difficult, and a useful telehub would give them a real place to start. This is quite similar to the "newbie guild" mechanic employed in many MMOs.


Further, imposing P2P to the Premium Account only gives them further incentive to contribute. I would consider it a rite of citizenship, and I'd be willing to bet the content creators on Basic Accounts wouldn't think twice about switching, either.


So let's make telehubs useful pieces of property, not imposed taxes on our freedom. Even without the Premium Restriction, they should be points of interest for new residents to explore.

How would you make them useful?

Because it's unfair, or because you don't think the money's good enugh to attract the best artists?

Stripped of the bull about "citizenship", I'd go for a premium account if it got me something I was actually interested in having. Paying money for the opportunity to spend more money on something I don't want and have to keep paying MORE money to keep isn't that thing.

But don't take things away from the Basic account (like the reduced stipend and the loss of reputation bonus) and expect positive results.

Well. Today's low/high on Garage Games:

http://www.garagegames.com/index.php?sec=mg&mod=project&page=view.job&qid=5118 http://www.garagegames.com/index.php?sec=mg&mod=project&page=view.job&qid=5063

Leaving out the volunteer and professional-level openings.

That doesn't answer my question.

Are you concerned about it being unfair to the artists, or because you don't believe it will attract the best work?

I mean... if I was to charge comparable fees for scripting in-sim to what I get for contract programming work, you'd be talking about hundreds of thousands of L$ for anything even moderately complex... the "Linden Economy" has a long way to go for that kind of comparison to be appropriate...

Both. Given the time investment, the lack of portability, and the distinct possibility it might break tomorrow, the bar is set pretty low.

But again, this isn't really the point.




What would you like to see added to the Premium account?

When I wrote the proposal I ment for the Point to Point to be used by everyone not just Premium account holders and above.



Not necessary with Point to Point teleporting. All the Citizens of Second Life will be able to teleport anywhere they want for free, as long as private landowners do not have privacy settings on. In those cases, the person will be teleported to a spot next to the land that is privacy protected.



I like this ideal but the Telehubs will no longer be the center of attraction.



Your 5th proposal puzzles me. I am not quite sure what you mean here.


But nevertheless, When I wrote the proposal, I intended for the point to point Teleporting system to be free and useable by all, and All means from the trial accounts to the US$225 dollar lifetime accounts.

OK, the second point is valid. The former? If the artist knows what they're getting, and goes in for reasons of their own (the possibility of a marketing win, maybe), that's their choice.Many of the new proposed features that are dismissed because "if everyone could do it something would break" could be used as an incentive. P2P teleports was the one that comes up here. A one-time name change is another. The "tragedy of the commons" argument comes up too often here, but occasionally it does have some merit. Every time it comes up... think about making it an incentive for a higher class of service instead.

p2p teleporting is good but i see a bad point one....would would we need "Offer Teleport in profile anymore two .....could be used for attacks on a sim think about it 5 people plan out diffrent points to attack tp in all at same time in those places then BOOM .... trouble makers here we go,


Now i dont understand the meaning of P2P but why not have a telehub in every sim....just like private islands.... that would be good and still keep the teleporting people within one area....now thats the kind of p2p teleporting i think of , is this what you all mean or not?

Hello, all. I am not usually one to post on hotly-discussed topics due to their rather... volatile... nature. However, I feel inclined here to point out a minor, but in my case substantial, flaw to Mr. Gomez's proposal pertaining to the use of P2P by Premium accounts and above.
For some people on Basic accounts, the accounts were given to them as a gift by a friend, relative, or other individual and thus the credit card charged (in the case of accounts formed before the Basic account became free) or used for identifying purposes (in the case of the more recent free Basic accounts). In many of these situations, it is either not easy (due to current circumstances of the individual or individuals financially) or outright impossible (due to absences of the individual or individuals in question) to pay for the shift up to a Premium account, irregardless of any persistent and fervent wish elsewise. I for one fall into this category, and cannot, despite an interest elsewise and the financial capacity to pay the card holder involved, shift up due to the cardholder's (permanent) absence from this country. Were I to try to do so, I would be paying 3x - 5x the amount I would owe him just to have the money shipped over (as his current residence is mobile (thus difficult to reach for correspondences, etc.) and in India, literally half way around the planet from me). The idea of limiting this to Premium access customers and above, specifically as a method to get them to contribute financially to the world they are a part of, is thusly flawed, as there are circumstances that can and do prevent this, and in cases I have personally asked, my situation is not at all uncommon for Basic-level customers.
While your proposal would otherwise have excellent merit, I fear that these circumstances invalidate the mention of such action not being an unreasonable imposition.
Thusly, with all due respect to all here, I agree with the framer of the original proposal, that P2P be permitted to the "unwashed masses" <img> that make up the general Basic-level populace of SL.

My thanks for the patience to hear me out.

Yours,
Mika Kyubi (Muromachi)
Kitsune-at-Large

If you can't upgrade to premium, or don't plan to, then you'd have to make do with the capabilities of SL as it exists today.... right?

In one word... Yes
However long your friends list is there are still new people that cant mark you on a map and teleport.

Also might I suggest for the land owners to be able to allow or deny P2P teleporting on there property... ya I know ppl can just tp to the edge and enter if allowed

We could do this, and have discussed it. One primary reason for switching to P2P is because new residents find the telehubs, and especially the idea of having to find and fly to the red beacon, to be confusing and non-intuitive. This problem is compounded by slow-rezzing buildings that trap unsuspecting newcomers or stop them dead in their tracks. P2P is a much more friendly experience.




This is an interesting idea which we can consider as part of the classified service, or related to advertising that's placed in the public areas once the telehubs are removed.



We can certainly consider this. We may find that some regions want games in their public area and others don't. I'd prefer to let them decide.


Again, if this is how the residents in a region want to use their public space it's ok with me.



We'll meet next week to talk about the process for repurposing the telehub land. I wasn't thinking we would pay people to do it, but let's talk about it.

Your points are well taken, Robin. Thanks for responding.


Given the feedback I've seen here and on other threads on the subject, the prevailing want out of the new system seems to be freedom to choose what the hubs will be (and many in favor of getting rid of them, period).


Assuming the actual structure of the hub itself is not important, it mitigates my fears of an inefficient "bid" for the design.


Instead, I would be in favor of converting the land into a miniature sandbox with a bare minimum of structures, including the ones already there (freebie kiosk, advertising whiteboard) and the proposed taxi. Enforce these with the same restrictions of a normal sandbox region, allowing advertising only on the whiteboard.

A sandbox would be useful, promote social behavior, ease the existing sandboxes, allow residents to "choose" the form of the area, and offer inherent usefulness to newbies without compulsory telehub use in the area. Beyond that, I cannot see a way to make the land fill all of the given criteria.


Addendum:

Furthermore, preserve a portion of this region as the rezzing area, similar to the current telehub utility. Allow residents to use telehubs in the likely event the region they wish to move to does not allow direct teleportation.

My prediction is the number of areas that will not allow direct teleportation will make people just use the telehubs for general travel, anyway.

I'm actualy pushing for a limited type of P2P i'm calling Hotspots.

At the center of your hotspot you have your traditional Telehub (what you do to the location i don't care, nor is it important to this implementation).

The hotspot would enable Land Restricted P2P with in a given radius, a good radius is between 500m and 700m.

Images:
500m_Hotspot_Map.png
770m_Hotspot_Map.png
Current Most Valuable Land Map.png

It minimizes the problems with these issues brought up by P2P:

1. Privacy
   
2. Flash Crowds
   
3. Flying complications
   
4. Land Economy Restructuring
   

I've evolved this idea though a couple of posts...
[post=763129]Most recent[/post]
[post=760714]Naming and defining[/post]
[post=760679]Original[/post]

You will pardon if I find the "Well, tough luck for you then." atitude mildly offensive. Please understand that I do want to contribute to SL actively, and feel that if I can make suggestions that I feel will make it easier for others in a similar situation to mine, I should. As it is, I can and do "make do" with it, but my inability to upgrade in no way makes me apathetic to game alterations and advances. While I am certain beyond the shadow of a doubt that I can and will live with however things turn out, I also feel that my inability to alter my circumstances does not invalidate my wishes for things to change.
In summary, yes, I will "make do", but that doesn't mean I wouldn't like things to change, nor that I should basically "shut up and take it" since I cannot do more.
Please understand, again, while my words seem harsh, they are not meant to be offensive, and I do apologize here in advance if they are taken that way.

With thanks,
Mika Kyubi (Muromachi)
Kitsune-at-Large

Mika. I AM A BASIC ACCOUNT HOLDER MYSELF. The only "tough luck attitude" you see there is what you put there.

Now play nice. And i don't care who started it.

Silly kitty, I'm not being angry or mean. I'm a little boggled at being taken for an Elite Account holder, is all.

Oh that's easy. Just crash your client...

Every time SL crashes, I end up trapped inside the telehub tower when I log back in; fairly frequently in the last week

the only way out is th TP somewhere. I know of at least one other person for whom this happens... Are we alone?