Its happening.....agian....

Exactly,

I am sick of seeing this debate, it was raging when I first Joined SL in Beta and here it comes again.


THEY HAVE ONE DARN SIM!!! CAN'T YOU LEAVE THEM THE HECK ALONE!!!

This is so sickening to me that I want to go there and start blasting everybody and i'm not even a wargamer.

you want a mature sim, ask the lindens to open some more, they are usually pretty good about listening to what the majority wants.

The Outlands used to be 4 sims strong until people complained and wanted mature sims they could just build in, so the warzone was moved to Jessie and that was given as their only one. At that time there were about 150 (i think around there) WWIIOnliners and they were confined to 1 sim!!!!! Was that fair? No, but they sucked it up and dealt with it. Then this happened again they didn't want to leave them alone in their one sim, this forced most of the WWIIOnliners to leave, a whole crapload of revenue for the lindens.

Leave Jessie Alone, you can find land in other mature sims i'm sure. Just wait and watch. At one point there was a crapload of free land in Shipley and myself and a bunch of friends bought it up, just watch and wait. Also ask the lindens to open more Mature sims.

My suggestion to the lindens is to open up a 2 Island sim that can be connected by a bridge or not. Make it known that they are not for regular building and that no restrictions on warring are considered. That way you can have 2 teams duking it out and trying to capture the land and occupy it.

Until then, stay the heck out of Jessie, or don't complain... It's all they have! IF you don't want to be shot repeatedly don't go there.


JV

Yes, I have two places in the outland sim of Jessie, and whenever anoyone in the subway group comes to get some work done, there is ryen, right next to us, shooting us and not stoping untill we give up the subway, well ryen i have some news for you... JESSIE IS NOT YOUR SIM!!!!! I can build what ever I want, whenever I want, on MY land, if you dont like it move, complain to the lindens not me! I dont care about how much we "destoyed" jessie with our subway! If you have enough money, do what Water said and buy your OWN sim! I am sick and tired of getting shot ALL the time by you, just because you don't like my building. Also, ofcorse we send abuse reports, the thing is, your acting like a small child, listen to yourself... "its happening again! the sim is stupid because people build what they want!" awww... well BOO HOO!!!

And you Jack (an anyone else with this complaint IN JESSIE) are acting just as childish by continualy complaining about the fact that Ryen is playing in jessie in a way that is fully within his rights, but that you do not like. There is ONE sim where he can do this to you, and what, 30ish sims where he can't.

This is the age old paradox in paradice. "It would be great if everyone could do whatever they want... but by doing WHATEVER they want they interfear in my ability to do whatever I want."

Dont you think that in a zone where you can do whatever you want, it is kind of silly / ignorate to complain that people are doing whatever they want?

If you think you are going to get somthing changed by whining in this way, you should do a search though these forums and look at the umptine threads we have all weathered previous to this date which had the same arguments and the same conclusion.

Jessie is FFA. EVERY other sim is regulated. Its a realy simple situation. If you stay... you deal with it. If you whine, you look silly.

bingo

Tell someone your home location, Have thembuild a several dozen, prim thick shield between that point and the turret. Maybe throw in a few physical object sheld scripts (the ones that move any physical object within radius UP).

forget it, i was able to get away.

Now back on topic, Jack, listen to chaunsey *(btw, i started a company chuansey, infact im even on the second life website holding one of my companys best weapons, the xg260 assualt rifle pic here )

Jack, i dont want to piss you off, i dont care IF you bild the subway, i dont even care what happens to it, all i care, and know, is that it is destroying jessie. Jessie used to be the only sim compleatly deserted. And possibly the most amazing sim because it was just about untouched by the puclic, now, thanks to your subway, its at 90% object useage. Soon we wont even be able to fire a weapon! So please, i beg you to join my cause, we need a sandbox type combat sim or pass an act in jessie for it to be combat related buildings only.

I am tired of trying to explain this to you Gwenydon, since obviously you don't understand what I am saying. I am saying that it's alright to shoot people in Jessie, but Harrassment is not alright. Harrassment of any sort should not be tolerated. Just because a sim is free for all, doesn't give someone the right to go up to someone and shoot them 50 times just because they don't like what they're doing there. That's wrong, no matter how you look at it. The TOS should still be in effect in Jessie, and it is, it is just not enforced as strong. What you are saying Gwenydon is that it's alright for people to just shoot whomever they want in Jessie, and continue to do it until they leave. But that should not be the case. I think if the Lindens don't do something about it, then they will have a lot of upset people. Just like Ryen was complaining about the turrent, when someone harrasses someone else in game, it's annyoing, and makes you not want to play.

If ryen really wants a sim for nothing but war games, then he should buy out the whole sim. But unless the Lindens are going to make a no house build sim, or a war games sandbox, everybody in Jessie is just going to have to deal with people building, and if they choose to continue to shoot people trying to build, on purpose, like Ryen's doing, then he's going to have to deal with the consequences.

Ryen, if you are successful and rich enough to buy a sim, then it is your privlage, your right, and your responsibility to buy one to suit your needs.

well *I* have some news for YOU.

it is not his sim,you have every right to build your subway sure,BUT...

jessie is different from other sims ryen has the option of killing you if he decides he doesnt like your project.

if you want to live in jessie YOU have to live with the fact that if someone doesnt like you or what youre doing then they have the option of showing their displeasure with force.

besides why do you need a subway when you can fly?

its not practical,its slower and more clumsy im sure then flying.

if its just a project that you want to build,why in jessie?

thats the last place you'd want to have a peaceful operation.

after my group members were driven off by the first situation at the very least people learned.
there was a good reason jessie became a deserted sim for about 4 months or so,because people learned its purpose and the real problems involved with moving there.

ROFL,i find this kinda funny,when i was playing before after the whole incident i made it a point to warn everyone who moved into jessie to make sure they knew what they were getting into.

and it seems that since i stopped playing or 2 months and wasnt there to do so anymore everyone moves in lol.

MUAHAH,this is a perfect situation that could bring back the wwIIolers

i know plenty that would love to be in a busy jessie with lots of targets,and maybe thats just what it needs.

Yes please bring back the WWIIolers, I always felt like you guys got shafted.

Lindens needs to come out strong and just say that you can have ONE DARN SIM, that is strictly devoted to combat.

JV

I think giving up one sim devoted completely to war games would be good. Make it a sandbox sim that is wiped every night, and maybe make it so a few key structures such as trees and maybe 2 bunkers stay every night. I think it would be good for everyone involved, give those who want war games without worrying about people building around them.

Ryen, I am not in the habit of discussing nonsense with infants such as yourself.
Howver, I came to Jessie and found a piece of unoccupied land to build on which pleased me..
You have annoyed and harrassed so many people in Jessie and it is time to stop such ridiculous tactics.

You cannot decide for EVERYONE how you want a sim to run. Things have a way of working themselves out the way they are supposed to.

As I prepare to leave Jessie for my everyday living quarters, let me tell you something... YOU WILL NEVER GET MY LAND !

I pride myself on a genteel civilized life, which I have a right to conduct in ANY sim I see fit, without your interference. I am sure that far more people will be sorry to see me go than would be to see you go if the tables were turned.

So, if you believe you have won anything by my leaving, you have not ! ! The only thing you have won is the disgust of many of your fellow Jessie-ites. How very sad for you-
Sincerely, Baccara Rhodes

Why is he childish because you refuse to recognize Jessie as a battle sim? Read up on the documentation of the Outlands, which were taken away and Jessie was made the one Outland sim. They are a dangerous place where anything goes. Why haven't these harrassers, or griefers, or whatever you want to call Ryen been banned, suspended, or even warned (I assume they haven't been warned because if so I doubt he would continue argueing the fact).

Inaction by the Lindens is approval, and also they like these conflicts, read up on the War of the Jessie Wall by Hamlet Linden and Phillips responses to it, they love these conflicts and never came down ever on the side of the combat players and their actions against the non combat players... BECAUSE Jessie is a combat sim! If you don't want to be attacked repeatedly leave Jessie, I'm glad you have made the smart decision.

JV
Beta Tester and lover of SL
Lindens are Gods!

Yes it does.

No its not.

Jessie is a COMBAT sim. Get over it.

In fact, since you people apparently wont learn, Im going to move in and setup some completely legal turrets and other such toys.

PS: I want to appologize to anyone who visits jessie in the near future. This argument has been raised multiple times. I'm not even perticularly friendly with Ryen due to past issues, however, when Brad and Jack and others can not accept simple facts of life....

The enemy of my enemy is my friend. My enemy is stupidity.

I've posted this in The Bhodi Tree Gallery Proposal thread, but I also think it belongs here.



My question here is why is there hostility about the idea of asking these questions and trying to begin a dialogue. If you're tired of the discussion - you can always quit reading. It's not like we're piping it into your head.

Combat zones are places of conflict. Why in the world should anyone expect that the people living there would agree on what life there should be like without conflict, then?

Bhodi - who says give peas a chance

1) Gwyd stay out of it, come live in jessie for a few weeks then you can preach about it.
2) the subway is not a transportation system, the subway itself and the area above it are like our own areana in rizal, and at least 4 people make their homes in it.
3) ryen, give it a chance! i know nicko isnt the best builder/scripter, or many of the people working on it, BUT im sure when Jack Orlowski gets back, lance gets his account reactivated and nicko has hired Christopher Omega (for some things that are not yet determined) im sure t will all fall into place, and your bitching has inspired me to help them, because what you are doing is rediculous. you keep attackiong Jrenslow and his friends, you attack nicko and the subway builders, you attack baccara and you attack chaos tech, im sure if you keep it up we will all get tired of you and work togeather to keep you away from us.

Perhaps there should be a "combat" or "flame" forum for these kind of debates.

I personally wouldn't mind buying up all of Jessie right now and making it a "combat/war GAME sim". Make it more fun for those individuals who would like to live in the face of death playing interactive games and such, rather then just randomly hunting and shooting down people just for the sake of doing it. That's what I would do if I had the land anyway. Sometimes the "game" aspect of SL can be just as fun if you hold yourself back from ultimate power, or the ability to create such force. Example: Making weapons that don't deal 100% damage per bullet. I would love to see an obstacle course of some type, or even a Basic Training Camp set up there, where it's not just about killing eachother -- but more on objects and obstacles you'd overcome for a prize.

I'm rambling now.... but just my thoughts....

--Water

Simple time: Report somone if you have a problem with what they are doing. If they are not warned, suspended or banned for the behavior it must not be wrong.

EXACTLY!!!!!

Okay - so no one is doing anything wrong enough to get their account suspended. I think we all already knew that. That means the civilians who build non-combat houses aren't doing anything wrong, and the combatants who shoot at them aren't either, by the rules of SL.

Great - so that's a given. However, Jessie wants to be a self-governing Sim. Or, at least, part of Jessie's population wants to self-govern. Part of it wants to gentrify and live in peace. Part of it wants everyone who isn't playing war games to leave. Just because something isn't going to get a player banned doesn't mean it's not worth discussing or that it doesn't need to be worked out in the long run.

Bhodi

Bhodi I don't think the argument here is about wether or not the discussion is feasible or not. Issue this thread (at least at this point) is wether or not one side or the other has any right to complain or tell the other side it is wrong.

I could be wrong.

I don't think anyone would mind somone trying to come to some form of compromise. But the issue with that, in this situation, is the fact that one side is asking for a compromise from the other who has no obligation (nor willingness apparently) to support a possible compromise. This is a sad state of affairs no mater how you look at it.

I wish both 'sides' of this conflict the best of luck and I hope that a compormise can be made, but, if one is to be made, both must stop arguing about what is and isnt the law, and start dicussing what one or the other might be willing to do to end the conflict itself.

I'll keep my personal opinions on what should or shouldn't happen out of this thread.

in order to be a self governing sim you must own the whole sim, good luck its expensive.

We have had many threads on this and the common thought was there would be group owned land and that land can be selfgoverned... Some only wanted certain sims to be able to be selfgoverned... if this thought prevails then Jessie will surely not be one of them... Finally aren't you getting a little ahead of yourselves? 1.1 isn't even out yet we don't know what the rules on Self Governance will be yet. I know that the lindens will not allow even a majority in a sim to control that whole sim as that would detract from a landowners rights and many of SL members have stated they would quit SL if that were to happen.

I personally want Self governance and I was a fan of the group land being selfgoverned approach, if the group can afford it they can grow their "nation" That way you have to decided to submit yourself to self governance.

Just because you want to move in and "govern" Jessie does not mean you can.

This topic has been hit so many times try searching the forums.

JV

Yes, you're right, the topic has been hit on many times. I'm not saying that self-governance is around the corner, or even a possibility for Jessie. I'm saying that given the number of Jessians who say they WANT self-governance, I'm suprised there is less discourse about many of the issues currently causing conflict.

Right here you solved the problem... Great work Bhodi.

NOONE IS DOING ANYTHING WRONG.

Yes you have the right to build whatever you want in Jessie, but people have the right to shoot you and try to stop your "invasion". You don't have the right to buy land and tell them they can't do that.

Fight back, make it fun, make friends that are good at fighting... set up defenses. Who knows maybe you can drive them from Jessie, thats the fun of it.

JV

I don't need to comment on the harassment vs. free gunply issue, but ... Jessie is a bit, uh, cluttered for some "warplay" purposes.

*If* Linden Lab was willing to have a "combat sandbox" simulator (and that's a BIG if), it might work well like this:

1) Two islands in one sim, with an Linden-owned non-terrain-editable channel between them; narrow (8m) Linden-owned uneditable, no-build water around the perimeter; and 2 bridges connecting the islands (the bridges located about 28m in from the edges, to leave a 200m clear center gap if a Naval battle is desired. One bailey bridge (modern); one stone arched bridge (old-fashioned); space below each to allow vessels 4m high to pass); maybe also a connecting bridge or causeway to Jessie from one side, for purely aesthetic reasons. Easier to sell the idea to the Lindens if only one sim is needed. If the central channel were 32m wide, the two "islands" might be 208x240 meters each (or of course entirely reduced to "water" by the "host".

2) Every two weeks, or month, or week (whatever works best) have a drawing, or auction, poll, design contest, whatever. Winning group or person (the "host" gets possession of the non-Linden land free from taxes for the duration; objects still must be bought, tax paid on objects, etc. Non-Linden land may be edited, flight may be turned on or off over the whole sim, most of the other "owner" options would apply.

3) Combat is turned "off" for say 1, 2 or 3 days after the auction, to give the builders time to set up objects, terrain, scripts, etc. Of course the best builders will have some or all of their objects pre-made, and just have to edit the terrain. The hosts can build more bridges over the center, or even cover it over with "fake" land, of course.

4) The "host" person or group could of course call for a free-for-all, and allow anyone to plonk down objects during the "construction" phase.

5) Any particular rules about games, scenarios, etc. would have to be hashed out by the players, hosts, and other Residents. A given "setting" might be used for several games while it exists, including of course random "free play" when nothing else is going on.

6) At the end of the "game setting" period, all objects would be auto-deleted, with the funds returning to their owners.

The host might make trench-land littered with debris, castles, bunkers, hedgerow-filled bocage, a cliff on one island looking down onto a beach for landing craft to approach, cratered "alien" landscape for WH40K style combat, almost all water for a "wooden ships and iron men" scenario ...

Whaddya think?

-- Athos Murphy
Jessie PX proprietor
"From boxes to more boxes, we've got it all."