Its happening.....agian....

Does anyone remember a time when there were 4 outlands sims? I dont, (wasnt around then) but i have heard about them, and the reason they went to a normal sim was because of this...


PEOPLE BUILT HOMES IN THEM

Now, i ask everyone to just fly by jessie quickly today....just take a quick fly by and tell me what you see, if you see the same i do you see this


another outlands sim in trouble. I remember a time when there was only me and jack orlowski as the only land owners in jessie (with chaunsey crash). I have a feeling that people are becomming greedy and feeling to need to have 1 more non combat sim..... i wont let that happen, and i need people to help me.


ATM over 60% of jessie is owned, and im makeing an estimate that over 80% of those are home builders/companys/ that goddamn subway/ Only me and jack own part of it, along with chaunsey, that are building military based buildings. If you look at jessie you will relized that our amazing outlands have turned into something more disgusting then any other sim. Please do something...i dont want to see the last outlands fall to people who are too greedy to be contempt with 50+ sims.......

I agree that there is a need for control in the sim because of its combat nature, but I also think that 1) We need more combat sims and 2) We need more mature sims. A lot of people I met who live in Jessie say it's because there are no other mature sims that are not full on land usage, object usage, and it has less lag than most mature sims.

Also: There were four outland sims? I only remember when Clara or something was a combat sim and then they changed that to Jessie.

EDIT: You spell 'again' wrong in the title I am once again the spelling corrector monkey!

Personally, only 1 combat sim should be needed. If you think about the sheer size of the sims, that's more than enough space to play war games. The way I see it, is if someone builds a home in Jessie, they should EXPECT there to be gunplay and such. It is the combat sim. But that doesn't mean greifers can have free play in those sims either. I've been to a few of Jack's Gun fights, and they are a blast. I think that there is enough space to have some fun there, and not much more space is needed.

That being said, if anyone decides to build in Jessie, it is an At your own risk thing. There will be gun play, and there will be accidents. That's why if i ever am in jessie, i set my home to there, so if i do accidently get shot, i'm not sent halfway across the world. But once again, this is not an open invitation to shooting innocents for fun, or griefing, if you become the victim of this, fill out an abuse report. But don't complain if one stray bullet hits you, it should be expected.

Theres another problem, i do shoot people who build in jessie to try to annoy them into leaveing. However when i do so, they only send complaints about me "harrassing them"

Well, then that's your problem, and you should expect to have an abuse report filed against you. This whole game is a give and take thing. A lot of people don't understand that. People can do whatever they want, and they do. That's the whole concept of free will, anybody at any time can do anything they want. But the part most people don't realize is that while they can choose what actions they take, they can't choose the consequences of those actions. If you want to punch someone in the face, no one is going to stop you except yourself, or maybe somebody else around who grabs your arm before you finish swinging. But outside of that, no one is going to stop you. But if you do punch someone, you can't control how they are going to react. They could sue you, you could get arrested, they may even punch you back.

So if you want to annoy someone to leave by shooting them, go ahead, but know that more than likely you will have an abuse report filed against you.

You reap what you Sow.

(this is in no way condoning griefing, or telling anyone to take an action to mess with someone else, but simply explaining the way I see things, and in no way do I act on these thoughts.)

Edit: Ryen, what do you expect. You are harrasing them, according to the terms of service, so you should expect to be reported.

Well now i tried talking to them, person to person, and all i got was a 5 year old discussion with AHAHAHAHAHAH and CAn I AVE THAT SUND?

And also joe lumin is a part of it, which should give you some idea about the quality of the project.

As Jeff or Phil will probably reply to this thread if / when they bother to.

Jessie is a FREE FOR ALL AREA. There are no rules. You can and will be shot. You have been warned. It is not a TOS break to kill people in Jessie. It hasnt been since it became the warzone that it is supposed to be. Brad Lupis, do not make statments about poloicies which you do not understand.

Ok.

A couple points of clarification folks.

The CS does apply to Jessie. Yes, things are a bit more loosely interpreted in terms of free fire etc. However, hate speech, even in terms of a "friendly" firefight is never acceptable.

Nor is violation of land rights (i.e checkerboarding to prevent people from expanding land ownership.)

Harrassment still applies in terms of reptative sounds when you are offline as defined in last weeks revised CS on sound policy.

Jessie, ultimately, is currently our only damage enabled sim. If people want to build nice and beautiful things there, that is their right. Just as they need to understand that entering Jessie can be an invitation for combat.

Hopefully you can all play well together and come to a common understanding.

(Somehow ending this post with "Peace Out" seems a little silly)

Colin

Well, now theres a turrent that causes me to crash whenever im hit by it. So i cant even play sl anymore.

I do understand the policies gwyendolyn, but just because an area is free for all doesn't mean that TOS doesn't apply there. I never said anything about people not being shot when they go there, it should be expected. But that doesn't mean that someone should continualy shoot you, after you ask them to stop. Continuing to fire on them violates the TOS, and is called harrassment. Harrassment is not allowed according to the current TOS, therefore, you can be reported for it.

Now, if you enter jessie, you can and more than likely will be shot, that should be a given. But it doesn't justify attacking someone repeatedly, and even though, as colin said, it's a free for all sim, there are still rules, rules that should be followed. If someone asks you to stop shooting them, then stop shooting them. If you don't stop shooting them, then they have the right to report your harrassment. Don't think that just because your in Jessie, you can do whatever you want, and don't think that your not violating someone else's rights when you shoot them if they enter jessie, because you are. You are not the center of the universe, and you have rights, but only as long as they don't violate someone elses rights.

Ah.. the outlands.

I was living there while your mommy was still changing your diapers. We could count our neighbors on one hand. Xavier and I moved to the outlands after being forced out of Tehama by the crowding of the influx of people discovering the wonder of SL.

It was a dangerous place, a wild and free place, with those living there sharing the same spirit as the land.

It was never a battle field, or a war zone. Sure, we all carried guns, but never used them...first.

Then we watched the outlands fill up with the same crowds as Tehama. Why? Because there was no other place. No where else to be. Not enough land. This has been addressed in other threads and add to it the unbelievable lag that the old world sims are suffering once again. Anyone try flying to a specific spot in Perry lately?

I guess my point here is that it feels like its time for new sims. PG, Mature, battle zones, what ever, but it's in the wind, listen for it... more land... more land....

Sometimes the changes that are inherent in SL are inspiring, sometimes they are heartbreaking.


fen-

Theres a turrent in jessie that causes me to crash before i even finish downloading my inventory. I cant do anything in the game at all, im requesting help from a linden, the turrent is owned by Nicko Snow.

too true

Guys: if people are annoying you in a place where the TOS doesn't apply, move to a place where it does. There is plenty of land, a lot less lag, and a lot more maturity in other places in the world.

man,i havent logged in in 2 months cause of R/L keeping me busy.

last night i login and its like,WHOA,jessie is like all of a sudden a buzzing metropolis.

we've got it seems almost a half dozen arms dealers now,and then the few residents that wish to live in a combat zone.

ontop of that there's a few people who are just living there not for combat.

the place has become a laggy cluttered mess.

why?

because there is only 1 damage sim,some people want to live in a mature zone where combat is an option,but its not what they're there for.

they are then packed into such a tiny space with everyone who IS interested in combat.

the arms dealers of SL want to have their stores there because that is where they'd see the most profit since that is where their customer base will be.

all in all everything just gets overly cluttered.

i mean come on folks...they're building a subway system in a combat zone for christs sake.

a few months ago jessie was awesome,it was riddled with defensive bunkers and dedicated combat players.

they werent welcomed,they were confined into a space smaller then a counterstrike map it seems and then harrassed.

for a good while no one moved into jessie because at the very least they knew its purpose better,and therefore only those who expected to be under siege moved there.

now everyone is there and it seems history is repeating itself with all the complaints and scripted griefing.

its pretty obvious we need more combat zones or people will just find that there is no place for their style of play here and leave.

OOOhh, now I see the situation we're dealing with here.

Well in that case, if you come to Jessie to disobey the TOS, then hurrah for you, but that doesn't mean your TAHT special. There should definetly be a sim that the TOS still applies to dedicated for combat where no one can buy land but everyone can still build. How does that sound?

Oh by the way Ryen, if you click on prefrances before you log in, you can set it to log in at your home location instead of your last location.

Uhm, what if the turret IS at his home location?

chaunsey, good to see you. Ivebeen visiting Jessie often lately and I sympathize with its crowd. While I miss the old "tropical" kind of Jessie I think the current set of builds is fine. If you ever played Half Life or other decent shooters, most of them have underground tunnels, or even subways.
Look at it as building a "level" in a combat game. It adds to the fun and in no way goes against the basic premise of Jessie. I do believe that people who went there strictly for housing should find a plot somewhere else or expect and tolerate random attacks.
As someone else said, if youre sitting down no one can kill you. Makes mlitary vehicles all the more powerful heh.

So like.... Ryen.... if you want your own sim, buy one. Then you can set the law of the land. Get a group together to buy AT LEAST 51% of Jessie, and then you can make a proposal. But you can't say "No, you can't build a house here -- cuz dis is a c0mbative warz0ne s1m" Then start shooting them to annoy them away. Get more organized in your actions, and form plans of control/implementation. That's how things get done. Simply acting crazy and annoying won't work. Besides... didn't we have this same discussion inworld when I lived in Jessie before Jack even? Obvioiusly things haven't changed...

--Water

I definately agree we need additional damage sims - because where there is only one, it has to expand to fit in ALL the different players who want to be in a damage-enabled zone for one reason or another.

It seems to me there are two basic concepts of what Jessie "is" - or, more accurately - "should be"

1. Jessie is a battlefield sim - only things that are designed for doing battle belong here.
2. Jessie is a sim where damage is always a possibility - but it is a valid place for creating any sort of building, business or attraction as long as you accept that there is risk involved.

I am definately part of the second camp - and my original understanding of Jessie was more as "a war-torn Sim" than as a "battle-field." In war-torn parts of the world, life continues for the residents. There are still grocery stores, restaurants, beauty parlors and even art galleries <wink> in Baghdad.

That beings said, I'm not happy about "ruining" Jessie for other people who see it more as a battle-field than a war-torn city. But the only way I can honor their vision of Jessie is by completely giving up my vision and moving to a no-damage sim. That doesn't seem like a fair trade, either.

So I'm all for the "two regular damage sims split by a sandbox sim" idea. Yeah to whomever had it first!
I think that the sort of "battle zone only" sim that some are lobbying for could ONLY be a sandbox. If you let people build and keep properties, you're going to get diversity. And the TOS agreement simply won't allow you to grief away all the players whose ideas you don't like.

I'm suprised the WWII recreationists didn't build, for instance, French cafes in which sims could play Resistance spies or Vichey double-agents. Or that the Mafia players don't have a strip joint in which people are often "whacked".

If you just take a moment to look at the vast array of "PK enabled MUDs" (oh, G-d, I am such a geek girl...), you'll see the huge array of perfectly valid play-styles and settings for damage-enabled play. You have war, fantasy, cyberpunk, and many other settings. You have games where PK is allowed no matter what the circumstances, games where PK is allowed only if it makes sense within the context of RPing, and games where players can decide for themselves whether or not to participate in PK without having to segregate themselves from the rest of the game.

Given this, I don't think anyone can genuinely be suprised that there isn't a unified concept of Jessie. Couldn't we have more Sims, so we could have more visions, so we could have more fighting in SL instead of ABOUT SL?

Bhodi and her two cents

Hear hear Bhodi!

Ryen, just because you *want* Jessie to be a certain way does *not* give you free license to violate the TOS. This is what I've been saying over and over and over. However, you got what you wanted. I gave up. It wasn't worth it to me to get into this argument with folks who have no interest in listening to anything but their own ideas -- not that everyone in Jessie falls into that category, but a few do . . .so I moved. I wanted to live in a Mature sim but it's true, most of them are over crowded and/or over-owned. So, I moved back to Slate, where I can't speak as I like (I'm a cursing fool) and can't put up weed in my garden if I feel the need, but at least I know my neighbors are not dead set on running me out and have a little respect.

I too agree that a "true" combat-only sim is going to almost have to be a Sandbox type sim. Otherwise, there is no way to prevent people like me from moving in and putting up some flowers and trees and a tent or two.

Zana

Did you people who are still attacking Ryen (Note that i dont think he is nessisarily going about this in the right way myself...) even read Colin Linden's post?

Shooting people, no matter how many times, is NOT a TOS violation in Jessie!

If you go to Jessie. You can and probably will be shot (be it by a player or some automated turret). You can buy land and build whatever you want. However, NYMBY does not apply in Jessie.

Re-Read Colin Linden's post before continuing to re-state that Ryen is wrong about shooting people. Jessie is OFFICALY A WAR ZONE. It is ONE sim out of how many? Boy are you people greedy.

Bhodi - While your vision is honorable I have to say that the warzone was there before your wartorn vision. You can have a war torn build in any sim, as the owner of the land you can turn on the damage. But at least you've got a respectful thought out post here. Thank you for being sane

Yes, all of us did read it. And yes, this entire time i've been saying that you can be shot in Jessie. But the issue at hand is on Harrasment. And continually shooting someone from a close range after they've asked you to stop is considered harrassment. Jessie is defined as a free for all area, but that doesn't mean that anyone can do anything they want to. The TOS, even though enforced more loosely than in other zones, still apply. Yes you can and will be shot in Jessie, but that doesn't give you free reign to go around shooting whomever you want whenever you want, and expect for everything to be ok. People can't complain if they get hit by a stray bullet every once in a while, but you can't blatently continually kill someone after they've asked you to stop. That is called harrassment, and that is a violation of the TOS. You'll run into the problem that Ryen is with the gun turrent if you want the sim to be an all out warzone. People continually shooting others to keep them from coming in world. Ryen should not complain because he goes up to people blatenly and shoots them to annoy them.

I'll repeat my previous statement:

You reap what you Sow.

No, its not. Read the post again.

Harassment that is enforced in Jessie:
"However, hate speech, even in terms of a "friendly" firefight is never acceptable.

Nor is violation of land rights (i.e checkerboarding to prevent people from expanding land ownership.) "


That is the kind of harassment that is enforced.

I don't know how to express this to you brad. Fighting in Jessie is not regulated by the TOS. Killing, shooting, bumping, traping, etc. These are not regulated in Jessie. This sim is FOR such activities. If you don't like to participate in them you should move. It is as simple as that.