"FIC": common sense or group think?

Is there a conscious or unconscious collective mentality on the forums? Is there a definable group that acts as one? Do they tend to gang up on new people? Do they gang up on those with alternate opinions? Are they unfair to those who are talking about the "FIC"? Are those folks talking of an "FIC" onto something? Are they more observant when it comes to these issues?

Or,

Is it due to common sense that the same people keep ending up on opposite sides of certain issues? In other words, are these folks (FIC, et al) acting in collusion, or are they responding by expressing learned values that are at least semi-pervasive in modern, western society?

At this point, its more like forum cancer. We just can't seem to stamp it out.

You left out Semi-Paranoid Delusion.

There's no single FIC, but there are cliques that do that first paragraph you mentioned.

Taken in conjunction with other incidents, the recent "nudity in Bedazzle ads" thread and the "government and anti-government" threads are pretty revealing.

The trouble with conspiracy theories is that they assume that people act reasonably, and with discipline and foresight. Conspiracy theories can't handle irrationality, emotionalism, and sheer nonsensical behavior. But the truth, virtual or otherwise, is almost always a messy collection the best and the worst in human beings.

There's a mob mentality on these forums. But unlike some claim, it's not organized, and it's not a conspiracy. Certain people exercise more "power" over the mob merely because they're erudite, charismatic, well-known, and in many cases, have been around for a long time. The loose opinions of the mob are "semi-pervasive in western society." So, unfortunately, are their tactics. Especially on the internet.

While some people seem to object to what the mob stands for, I think they're often confusing positions with tactics. And I think the tactics demonstrate that the mob isn't at all led by a group with a specific objective in mind. Otherwise, the "leaders" are pretty silly and short-sighted blokes.

I'd say that rather than a conspiracy or "right opinions and actions", we're looking at pervasive pattern of group behavior among human beings. This is how people behave when they're allowed to run relatively free.

Alas.

Well, this framing of the debate isn't really appropriate, because it is an all-or-nothing proposition, either there is "common sense and we, the intelligent ones, who are surrounded by idiots" or there is "rabid frothing tinfoil hatted conspiracy theory nutters".

I would tend to agree with Seth that it isn't a conspiracy, in that it isn't a plan, with meetings, charters, etc.

On the other hand, it is group think, that is, ganging up on newcomers, circling the wagons, defending the honour of uniform, etc.

I think it was summed up some time ago in the King Kong thread by the player who said essentially, "I don't know the facts of this story and maybe you have a point, but let me tell you, if you go criticizing my friend, boy, will I dismiss you as unserious and wrong just because she's my friend."

That sort of group-think isn't a conspiracy, but just a group-think.

And I agree with Lianne, that there isn't a FIC in some kind of discrete, actual-address sort of place, like "The Trilateral Commission on E. 47th St" to which all kinds of evils can be subscribed by Internet nutters (actually, it's moved lol). Rather, it's a set of behaviours by the privileged, chief among them, the denial that there is even a privilege system or a privileged group LOL. But that's normal not only in any human system, it's normal in games.

But...remind me again why we are talking about this again? Because...why? Because Nolan wanted to make sure he had the last word and got his licks in to show his group was "right"? Or...just because?

We can all agree that it's a dead horse flogged to a pulverized mass, and ridiculed and memed and recycled and the household word on everyone's lips. So...let's take a look at what the entire FIC discussion did achieve thus far in the game called Second Life -- either directly, or indirectly, in helping to accelerate processes already underway:

1. The Lindens stopped the system whereby they subsidized the purchasing of sims for special player projects like Neualtenberg.
2. The Lindens ended the old events grants system.
3. When the Lindens instituted an educational grants system that privileged the mentors and the live helpers over other, even knowledgeable players, they ended that distinction and revised the rules.
4. The Lindens ended the system whereby a special few got to have Linden card dispensors on their lots, whereas other ordinary players didn't get them, even when they requested them.
5. The Lindens appeared to have revised the criteria for hiring live helpers.
6. The Lindens appear to be more mindful now about whether not they "fete," so that someone who wanted to make a clone of an old Linden mall had to go through some clearance -- one might call it a "fete vetting".
7. The Lindens feel called upon now to say "There is no FIC," i.e. to reassure players that they are not playing favorites, and they seem more keenly aware of the built-in "favorites" problem in games of this nature.
8. The Lindens attempted to diffuse the entire FIC discussion by putting the title "FIC" in every single account name on April Fool's day -- on the one hand to poke fun at the term, but in another way to say "You, individual ordinary player, are the one we are always really feting, we love you."
9. The Lindens hired a new community liaision who appears adept at steering discussions into more positive and constructive vein and who attempts to harness the intellectual quotient of the forums -- which can all too easily go sour -- through book citations, mentions of Harvard conferences, etc. While we don't have a peek at the memos that actually preceded this hire, they may well have been influenced by the deterioration of the forums culture, the appearance of many new demanding players in the game disenchanted with some of the basic old features, etc.
10. The Lindens ended the aggregate ratings system, which privileged older players the most, since they kept all their old pluses and got paid handsomely for them each week on stipend day, and now have a six-month time-out on ratings.


These are just 10 things I can think of that if not in whole, at least in part resulted from the entire FIC debate. While many people got very angry about the FIC debate, I think we could all agree that these 10 elements that have changed in the game are all changes for the better in our world. They make it a more fair world, and a world open to many more kinds of people, which makes it more alive and creative and growing. What this discussion meant, however, is that some players who had lots of plus ratings, or who had Linden cards on their lots, or who had special relationships with Lindens, or whatever, now feel somewhat pinched. It seems nothing has really been taken from them, however, but their own vaunted sense of themselves.

Well, lets see; because you are replying to it? A rather lengthy reply for something you are so dubious about, "Henry".

I was going to post my motivation for creating the poll in the thread starting post, but I figured someone would cry about that too.

The reason being, I was accused in another thread of using my forum buddy list to decide what side of an issue I would take. That is a ridiculous assertion as I don't even have ONE person in that list. So it got me thinking about the issue. Pardon me. This type of baseless, paranoid accusation is why i can only but laugh at this type of rhetoric. Besides that, I rarely even speak to 90+% of the people who generally hold the sames values as I do on the forums, whether it be in-world, or anywhere else.

As far as getting "last licks", are you serious? You really think that we've heard the end of the "FIC" theorists? When pigs fly.

As far as crediting the "FIC" klaxons with that list of yours, bah. I could make up some coincidental lists too, it proves nothing.

Since you ignored and omitted this part (aside from distorting it to make it sound as though I was calling people wackos) I will post it again. I would appreciate it if you could point out exactly what part(s) lead you to believe I was portraying those who claim the "FIC" exists as inferior. I see it as the contrary, alluding to the fact that they may be on to something, and are possibly more observant, whilst painting a pretty bad picture of the "FIC".

"Is there a conscious or unconscious collective mentality on the forums? Is there a definable group that acts as one? Do they tend to gang up on new people? Do they gang up on those with alternate opinions? Are they unfair to those who are talking about the "FIC"? Are those folks talking of an "FIC" onto something? Are they more observant when it comes to these issues? "

Nolan just said it, but ya...Henry needs to review that list. I know for a fact some of those actions were already on the Linden's TODO list well before anybody ever uttered FIC, and some other items are pretty debatable.

And i'd review saying that you agree with me... everyone knows i'm crazy and only talk out of my ass.

Um... I think those people who've been playing the longest and/or create content with similar values get to know one another because they have something in common... I suppose that would be common sense, though I didn't really get a clear picture about what you meant by each of your options.

And...ummm.....how would you know that....except with a special inside connection to that Linden to-do list....ROF clutching my sides with laughter!

Honestly, nobody has to make this stuff up. You just exemplify it.

And the post doesn't claim the FIC discussion was responsible for all changes.

Indeed, it is careful to point out that they were in part responsible and may have accelerated them.

I abstained from voting because I don't think it's an either/or situation.

Do I believe there's some organized FIC wheeling and dealing behind the scenes and planning and scheming? No, I don't, and I really wonder if those who seem to see that in everything aren't just tasting some sour grapes. ("I don't think you'd let me in your clique, so I think you smell bad!"

Do I think people in these forums suffer from group think at times and have forum cliques? Absolutely. No forum I've ever been a part of was clique free. It's human nature to gravitate toward those we share things with, and no matter how fair-handed we all claim to be, it's also human nature to slap a verbal smack down on an 'outsider' before we would a member of our clique.

I see over and over again the same people agreeing on everything, (and no one can agree on every damn thing, no matter how close you are) the same people disagreeing, the same groups gravitating toward a particular thread, and the same people flooding a thread with nonsense because someone they dislike, or see as an outsider, started it. Honestly, I don't see how anyone can frequent these forums and not see it. You can pretty much check it off on a list. It's that predictable.

So, is it some plot by an organized FIC? No. Is it just that those people are wiser than everyone else and come to the same logical conclusion every time? Also no.

Applauds your post! It does my heart good to read your post, it's one of many I have read in the past few days with a simular message. Thank you very much for saying it. I honestly believe the forums are getting better these days

Cat

The world is listening.
......................................

Pleas know what you speak of before you put it in writing. The Lindens did not subsize the purchasing of anything for the Neualtenburg project. The lindens opened up land in Anzere for anyone to use as long as they sent in a detailed project plan. Neualtenburg was the only such group to do so and we were allowed to use the land provided we maintained the tier cost...This program is also ending and this decision was made 2 monthhs ago way before FIC became a catchfrase in the forums.



Again incorrect ...they specified what events they would pay for and still do pay for event hosting.



Complete and utter bullshit...try again



?????




The only criteria for being a live helper is that you have to be in world a certain period of time ( 1 month I believe ) and you cant have been suspended



Actually the Lindens were entertaining the idea of selling the mall with the land...




Considering there is no FIC just conspiracy theory peoples ...



Its called a joke and there were no ulterior motives to calm the newb masses....



Or perhaps they finally realized they needed someone full time to moderate the forums




This statement alone shows how ignorant you are to facts. the ratings system privileged the newbie club hoppers the most...If you had a clue you would know that most older residents including those that have been here 3 years had no where near the ratings that 3 month old newbs had.



The FIC debates have done nothing for in world or in forum changes and if you really think they have you should take off the rose colored glasses and join those of us in the real world

this isn't the sluniverse forums. You did not need to be so insulting.

If you are speaking to me ...I wasn't.

I'm tired of conspiracy theorists and newbies coming here and leting their brains drip out into words complete nonsense and act as if it is fact. There is no FIC and LL hasn't been running covert operations to tone down their interaction with said non existant group.

Wow, people have been in game for a period of years and know Lindens...this isnt everquest or WOW where knowing the creators could help you out....there is no game here or goal. Everything lately has to be seen from the respect that someone is using their influence to gain power and it is complete bullshit.

You know Lindens Cat...you have been here a long time....you have had major land holdings....are you FIC? Are you influencing how and what happens in the game? Of course you aren't ....neither am I ....no one is. It amazes me that people actually believe this FIC nonsense.

Collectively we all influence the world of SL and the creators do take notice of our wants and needs but I have yet to see evidence where one person is held in high regard over another.

STFU about the FIC! Or I'll send the FIC thugs to find out where you are and....er....ummm...nothing to see here...umm...bye!

You seriously need to let this FIC drivel die off because it's now beyond a joke and taints so many threads that newcomers are going to get the wrong idea about any kind of community in this place.

Seriously - go do something else.

Let's talk again about an all-too-familiar subject: FIC and its larcenous sermons. The rest of this letter is focused exclusively on FIC, not because I harbor any ill-will towards it, but because it wants to blame our societal problems on handy scapegoats. You know what groups have historically wanted to do the same thing? Fascists and Nazis. FIC would sooner get a lobotomy than clean up the country and get it back on course again. And let me tell you, the dogs of Jacobinism are barking up a storm, driven half-mad by the thought that there are people better equipped to cope with life than piteous tossers. And that furious barking is music to my ears, because it presents itself as a disinterested classicist lamenting the infusion of politically motivated methods of pedagogy and analysis into higher education. FIC is eloquent in its denunciation of modern scholarship, claiming it favors what I call raving carpetbaggers. And here we have the ultimate irony, because FIC says that the cure for evil is more evil. Wow! Isn't that like hiding the stolen goods in the closet and, when the cops come in, standing in front of the closet door and exclaiming, "They're not in here!"? I believe I have finally figured out what makes organizations like FIC pit people against each other. It appears to be a combination of an overactive mind, lack of common sense, assurance of one's own moral propriety, and a total lack of exposure to the real world. After I sound the bugle of liberty, I know that everyone will come to the dismayed conclusion that I stated at the beginning of this discussion: FIC argues that mediocrity and normalcy are ideal virtues. To maintain this thesis, FIC naturally has had to shovel away a mountain of evidence, which it does by the desperate expedient of claiming that newspapers should report only on items it agrees with. FIC's most progressive idea is to don the mantel of vigilantism and condition the public to accept violence as normal and desirable. If that sounds progressive to you, you must be facing the wrong way.

FIC's inclinations promote a redistribution of wealth. This is always an appealing proposition for FIC's vassals because much of the redistributed wealth will undoubtedly end up in the hands of the redistributors as a condign reward for their loyalty to FIC. Any meaningful analysis of the situation must allow for the fact that if FIC got its way, it'd be able to encourage individuals to disregard other people, to become fully self-absorbed. Brrrr! It sends chills down my spine just thinking about that.

That which is built inextricably into the laws of the universe cannot be totally obscene. And that's where we are right now. Those of us who are still sane, those of us who still have a firm grip on reality, those of us who still maintain that FIC has no conception of our moral and ethical standards, have an obligation to do more than just observe what FIC is doing from a safe distance. We have an obligation to speak up and speak out against FIC. We have an obligation to show it how it is as wrong as wrong can be. And we have an obligation to follow through on the critical work that has already begun.

The struggle against what I call unruly moral weaklings must be a struggle against gangsterism, chauvinism, and militarism, or it is doomed to failure. Your guess is as good as mine as to why FIC wants to engage in an endless round of finger pointing. Maybe it's because it plans to replace our timeless traditions with its reckless ones. At the very least, FIC and its chums are pesky smart alecks. This is not set down in complaint against them, but merely as analysis.

FIC possesses no significant intellectual skills whatsoever and has no interest in erudition. Heck, it can't even spell or define "erudition", much less achieve it. Be forewarned: The hour is late indeed. Fortunately, it's not yet too late to point out that the emperor has no clothes on.

One could truthfully say that FIC's little schemes are bound to fail. But saying that would miss the real point, which is that an armed revolt against it is morally justified. However, I assert that it is not yet strategically justified. Since I don't know FIC that well, I'll have to be a bit presumptuous when I say that it will do everything in its power to twist the truth. No wonder corruption is endemic to our society; FIC's commentaries all stem from one, simple, faulty premise -- that it can acquire power and use it to indoctrinate refractory, lackadaisical swindlers and get away with it. As I often like to put it, FIC rarely tells its apple-polishers that it plans to instill distrust and thereby create a need for its foolhardy views. I know you're wondering why I just wrote that. I'll explain shortly, but first, I should state that if the only way to develop an alternative community, a cohesive and comprehensive underground with a charter to advance a clear, credible, and effective vision for dealing with our present dilemma and its most jejune manifestations, is for me to fall into the trap of thinking that those of us who oppose FIC would rather run than fight, then so be it. It would unmistakably be worth it, because it recently claimed that it has the linguistic prowess to produce a masterwork of meritorious literature. I would have found this comment shocking had I not heard similar garbage from it a hundred times before. FIC is a waste product of biological evolution. But there's the rub; we must seek liberty, equality, and fraternity in such as way that there is nothing FIC can do about it except learn to live with the fait accompli. That shouldn't surprise you when you consider that if my memory serves me correctly, its splenetic, grungy threats leave the current power structure untouched while simultaneously killing countless children through starvation and disease. Are these children FIC's enemies? Here's the answer, albeit in a somewhat circuitous and roundabout style: FIC says that it has achieved sainthood. What it means by this, of course, is that it wants free reign to poke and pry into every facet of our lives. Look at what's happened since FIC first ordered its secret agents to discredit and intimidate the opposition: Views once considered unrealistic are now considered ordinary. Views once considered careerism-prone are now considered perfectly normal. And the most insipid of FIC's views are now seen as gospel by legions of uncompromising bohemians.

Shame on FIC for thinking that people like you and me are short-sighted! Teenagers who want to shock their parents sometimes maintain -- with a straight face -- that unfounded attacks on character, loads of hyperbole, and fallacious information are the best way to make a point. Fortunately, most parents don't fall for this fraud because they know that FIC frequently avers its support of democracy and its love of freedom. But one need only look at what FIC is doing -- as opposed to what it is saying -- to understand its true aims. FIC occasionally writes letters accusing me and my friends of being disagreeable sensualists. These letters are typically couched in gutter language (which is doubtless the language in which FIC habitually thinks) and serve no purpose other than to convince me that its brethren are quick to point out that because it is hated, persecuted, and repeatedly laughed at, FIC is the real victim here. The truth is that, if anything, FIC is a victim of its own success -- a success that enables FIC to take us all on an entirely reckless ride into the unknown. We must take advantage of a rare opportunity to build a new understanding that can transport us to tomorrow. Only then can a society free of its asinine, foolish jibes blossom forth from the roots of the past. And only then will people come to understand that it likes smear tactics that mortgage away our future. Could there be a conflict of interest there? If you were to ask me, I'd say that if you are not smart enough to realize this, then you become the victim of your own ignorance. FIC can go on saying that the rest of us are an inferior group of people, fit only to be enslaved, beaten, and butchered at the whim of our betters, but the rest of us have serious problems to deal with that preclude our indulging in such superficial dreams just now. Please remember that I'm not writing this letter for your entertainment. I'm not even writing it for your education. I'm writing it for our very survival.

Without a doubt, however, I've never bothered FIC. Yet FIC wants to separate people from their roots and cut their bonds to their natural communities. Whatever happened to "live and let live"? I can only put the kibosh on FIC's shell games if FIC's army of mendacious, temperamental rabble-rousers is decimated down to those whose inborn lack of character permits them to betray anyone and everyone for the well-known thirty pieces of silver. Let me give you an important hint: When trying to understand what FIC is up to, look at what it is doing and what it has done. Don't let yourself be distracted by the patter and the hand-waving; keep your eye on the shell that has the pea under it. And focus your mind on the fact that FIC somehow manages to get away with spreading lies (the federal government should take more and more of our hard-earned money and more and more of our hard-won rights), distortions (the majority of dirty, juvenile jokers are heroes, if not saints), and misplaced idealism (women are crazed Pavlovian sex-dogs who will salivate at any object even remotely phallic in shape). However, when I try to respond in kind, I get censored faster than you can say "ultrastandardization".

I myself cannot too often emphasize the simple fact that a true enemy is better than a false friend, and if you don't believe me, then you should oppose evil wherever it rears its domineering head. It is hard to decide what is stronger in FIC: its incredible stupidity as far as any real knowledge or ability is concerned, or the bumptious insolence of its behavior. Most of FIC's writings are thesis-less runarounds that leave the reader unclear as to both its point and its position on the issue, and every intellectually honest person knows it. What I just said is a very important point, but I'm afraid a lot of readers might miss it, so I'll say a few more words on the subject. My cause is to point out the glaring contradiction between FIC's idealized view of mercantalism and reality. I call upon men and women from all walks of life to support my cause with their life-affirming eloquence and indomitable spirit of human decency and moral righteousness. Only then will the whole world realize that I cannot compromise with FIC; it is without principles. I cannot reason with it; it is without reason. But I can warn it, and with a warning it must truly take to heart: Cruel heresiarchs serve as the priests in FIC's cult of socially inept quislingism. These "priests" spend their days basking in FIC's reflected glory, pausing only when FIC instructs them to replace law and order with anarchy and despotism. What could be more devious? A complete answer to that question would take more space than I can afford, so I'll have to give you a simplified answer. For starters, it constantly insists that it's inappropriate to teach children right from wrong. But it contradicts itself when it says that sensationalism and classism are identical concepts. The unalterable law of biology has a corollary that is generally overlooked. Specifically, FIC's opuscula are destructive. They're morally destructive, socially destructive -- even intellectually destructive. And, as if that weren't enough, even when the facts don't fit, FIC sometimes tries to use them anyway. It still maintains, for instance, that it should blitz media outlets with faxes and newsletters that highlight the good points of its catty publicity stunts because "it's the right thing to do".

It's a well-known fact that the continuing misunderstandings that some uppity flibbertigibbets seem to have merely underscore this point. It's an equally well-known fact that as conscious, sentient beings aware of our actions and capable of response, we must stop the Huns at the gate. When logic puts these two facts together, the necessary result is an understanding that FIC has -- not once, but several times -- been able to force its moral code on the rest of us without anyone stopping it. How long can that go on? As long as its wild excuses are kept on life support. That's why we have to pull the plug on them and take a proactive, rather than a reactive, stance. Writing letters like this one has earned me more hate mail from FIC than you would care to hear about. And while we're on the subject, I, hardheaded cynic that I am, like to throw darts at FIC's logo. Why do I tell you this? Because these days, no one else has the guts to. Okay, there's no reason for me to be antisocial, so I'll leave you with this concept: FIC is one of the most blatant enemies of peace, stability, and human progress the world has ever seen.

Good post, Nolan .. you support both sides of the argument equally. Whether or not you are sincerely interested in the truth will be up for you to decide, but this was certainly a strong attempt at doing so.

And, BTW, the FIC aren't all that bad. They are probably amongst the most productive of SL.

They, unfortunately, realise that fact too much and over-stress its importance.

The only well know fact to be gleaned from reading any of that, is the fact that you have fallen well and truely out of your tree.

Thats what I said in the other thread, cept I used 'Tripe' not 'Drivel'

And I was told I was proving the point with my Insulting and Derogatory Reply.

Yet no-one has jumped on you for saying it, maybe *I* should start up a stupid random theory about ppl out to get me eh?

THERE ARE/IS NO FIC!!!!!!!!

Grrrr

*bangs head repeatedly*

When, Seriously, WHEN, are you going to stop this, it really is rather frustrating and I have spoken to a few n00bs, that have been to the forums, READ all the drivel and have been asking me, who the FIC are?

It really is VERY freaking tiresome

-.-

There is FIC aka Elite aka Forum Royalty aka Status Quo aka Town Elders aka whatever.

It's a social pattern which repeats itself in any community. In someways it is healthy, in other ways, it's very unhealthy.

Our, or at least, my attempts here are merely to hope that we could reduce the downside, even at the cost (though hopefully not) of the upside.