Second Life Forums Archive - Immense ugly griefing eyesores, a risk land-owning for residents?

StoneSelf Karuna

His Grace

Join date: 13 Jun 2004

Posts: 1,955

03-21-2005 14:53

From: Jillian Callahan

Y'know, it sure would be nice to get a "This Is Our Policy, Exactly" statement from the Lindens reguarding what's considered just an annoyance build (accidentally or otherwise) and what's considered a greifing (against the TOS) build - and how wide the grey area is.

If for no other reason than to know when to shrug and move on.

try asking in the hotline forum

_____________________

AIDS IS NOT OVER. people are still getting aids. people are still living with aids. people are still dying from aids. please help me raise money for hiv/aids services and research. you can help by making a donation here: http://www.aidslifecycle.org/1409 .

OoPs Galatea

Registered User

Join date: 13 Jan 2005

Posts: 9

03-21-2005 15:45

The only zoning I refer to is building a business or a residence...it would be great to know that you could go somewhere and spend your $L, and understand fully that a casino or dance club wont pop up the next day.

SOME areas with residential / commercial zoning would be great. Not all. I agree wholeheartedly that people need freedom, but in some cases we need a choice. It would be so cool to get to keep a nice build because you know a Laggy Business full to the hilt with products doesnt pop up overnight.

Most of SL still needs to be wide open for building, but there is a percentage that would relish having a 'residential' sim to live in, and that is what I am speaking to. Or a sim that is all businesses....Imagine the traffic!! I think that there is good reason for this type of rule / law IRL...the space here is different, but we have a creative and intelligent enough crowd in SL to figure something out that works for all of us.

Another 2 cents ($L 5?)

OoPs!

Blue Burke

god I love this game :}~

Join date: 5 Jul 2004

Posts: 147

Get over it

03-21-2005 18:01

From: Prokofy Neva

Thank you. I couldn't agree more. Let the record show I'm not the only one.

Shiryu, the style of that building and the alt's name somehow sound to me like Blue Burke. He made a giant neon-yellow glowing box in Allston similar to that one, and had it on overpriced land, and it seemed as if the idea was that we had to buy that parcel to put that thing out of its misery, because otherwise we'd have to helplessly live with that piss-yellow light pouring over all of our houses and businesses for miles. He claimed it was a "test" later regarding light and FPS and the sim -- let's see if he or whoever Biff is comes forward now that there is an outcry and says it is a "test".

I think we can all sure as hell judge that this as ugly and not beautiful, and just its intentions as surely obvious to all -- to extort a land sale from people so that they can get rid of the ugliness OR to devalue land and force people to move,

And this is where all the feted inner elite, and the uncelebrated external masses, need to get it in gear and go out and negrate a build like that. That is the ONLY way to end the sense of helplessness and frustration that pervades the game. You can't expect the Lindens to do a thing about this because it isn't technically in violation of the TOS, and if you look to the older, established players, they will get your knickers in a twist with their endless yammering about how it's all "subjective" -- and subjecting us all with the tyranny of the subjective.

This picture and this situation, like Anshe's, and like the big black building with the legs in Clunn which I first raised, are all clear and present examples of ugly builds undertaken deliberately to extort and harass. They deserve a pushback. It is easy to form a consensus about this. And the tool for expressing that is the negrate. Those who keep yammering about one man's dream is another man's nightmare forget that all of us have been living far too long with what is clearly a nightmare for everybody.

Once again your talking out the side of your neck not knowing what your talking about. I owned land in Maryport. This land was for sale. A land owner next to be built on my land, mistake or not he had a large area of his build on my land. I didn't want to return it so I tried IMing him. After many days with no responce I built a big glowing yellow box and slid it on his land. Well funny but, I got an IM that evening. So again you whine about others all the time. Maybe if you spent less time whinning and more time doing you may have a successful project. Just a thought.

Jim Herbst

Registered User

Join date: 22 Feb 2005

Posts: 67

03-21-2005 18:29

From: Biff Pendragon

i checked simfps before and after i built the tower. i checked again when i took the tower down. i saw no difference in simfps.

Older video cards might see client-side lag. i will check with a older video card when i get the chance. lag is not my intention.

Heres an idea: Dont do "experiments" that involve bright flashing colors and pain in the future!

In the future (whether you like to or not, you should) put up a sign in front of these monoliths to the RGB god explaining why you are doing this to any extent.

Prokofy Neva

Virtualtor

Join date: 28 Sep 2004

Posts: 3,698

03-21-2005 18:35

From: someone

Once again your talking out the side of your neck not knowing what your talking about. I owned land in Maryport. This land was for sale. A land owner next to be built on my land, mistake or not he had a large area of his build on my land. I didn't want to return it so I tried IMing him. After many days with no responce I built a big glowing yellow box and slid it on his land. Well funny but, I got an IM that evening. So again you whine about others all the time. Maybe if you spent less time whinning and more time doing you may have a successful project. Just a thought.

Wow, you're coming awfully late to this party, Blue! Did you get all your girlfriends out in droves to scour all the forums to see where I posted "taking your name in vain"? Do you have forum scanners like you have land scanners?

You never, never EVER told this story about the land owner building on your land. And given that ALL THE LAND SURROUNDING THE BOX WAS EMPTY, I am astounded that you would trot out this story now! Indeed, it was impossible to get rid of your big ugly glowing box shedding light for miles everywhere because the root prim was spread across several patches. After I had tenants complain, I bought your square and then was chagrined that the big ugly thing didn't disappear. It wasn't my tenant next to the yellow box intruding on your land because we discussed it.

You never said a word, in a long conversation at the time, about any intrusive build, nor could it be seen at all. I'll take your word for it. But let me remind you that at the time, you told me a story about "checking FPS on the sim with light builds" and "finding that it's not the number of prims but the size of the prims" or some such. NEVER a word about a grief-builder, and I can't for the life of me figure who this could be. And the story about "checking the FPS" struck me as lame, too, because what right do you have to use all of SL as your experimental FPS-checker, putting up giant griefer towers that can only appear to extort sales?

You couldn't just press return on this guy? Huh? What kind of lame story is THAT? Or did he have root prims spread like you did when I bought one, two of your parcels and STILL couldn't shake loose YOUR griefer box? But I didn't see that and I was there.

I spend all my time in the game doing, doing, and doing. That is why I have a very successful project right there in Alston and Maryport where all that land is rented out now in a lovely beachside community. To be sure, I didn't put up a glowing neon mall and soak other players for thousands of Lindens after trapping their avs, but they do seem to have a good time nonetheless for the small amounts they pay me which barely cover tier.

_____________________

Rent stalls and walls for $25-$50/week 25-50 prims from Ravenglass Rentals, the mall alternative.

Blue Burke

god I love this game :}~

Join date: 5 Jul 2004

Posts: 147

03-21-2005 19:02

*Hands Prokofy a big block of CHEESE*

Gwyneth Llewelyn

Winking Loudmouth

Join date: 31 Jul 2004

Posts: 1,336

03-22-2005 13:50

Do we need any more proof that anarchy does not work?

Well, I thought about the zoning problem, but I guess that zoning does not remove blinking towers - it just separates casinos/malls/clubs from residences. Actually, a simple "zone rule" would be making money transactions not working in a particular sim - at all. But you would still have "ugly" buildings, and rotating towers, etc. on residential zones.

I think that the way to go is resident-controlled zoning. I own and rent plots on 4 different places. In all of them the environment is beautifully controlled by the residents themselves, all using different mechanisms - from "good neighbours" (the most difficult kind) to "tyrannical landowners" (who simply enforce the rules for building), with a few degrees in-between.

It works. On all of them.

So, my point is - people will start to pay more to go into "private condominiums" - large spaces, rented/owned in sims where some sort of community rules forbid you to do "ugly" buildings. This means a change in mentality - you want to buy/rent cheap, well, go to the anarchist sims. You want to have a peaceful Second Life, get a plot in an "organised community". Expect to pay more - but to get a bigger return, from either having more peace of mind, or for being able to sell your plot for much more. To give you an idea, I had a plot of only 512 sq. m. and was offered L$ 25 K (!!!) for it, just because someone wanted to have a plot on a community-controlled sim. And I did not sell it! And it's even in PG land...

The bottom line is, ignore the anarchist sims, go to controlled communities, if you can't trust your neighbours to build in a reasonable way. Live in peace.

_____________________

Immense ugly griefing eyesores, a risk land-owning for residents?
StoneSelf Karuna His Grace Join date: 13 Jun 2004 Posts: 1,955	03-21-2005 14:53 From: Jillian Callahan Y'know, it sure would be nice to get a "This Is Our Policy, Exactly" statement from the Lindens reguarding what's considered just an annoyance build (accidentally or otherwise) and what's considered a greifing (against the TOS) build - and how wide the grey area is. If for no other reason than to know when to shrug and move on. try asking in the hotline forum _____________________ AIDS IS NOT OVER. people are still getting aids. people are still living with aids. people are still dying from aids. please help me raise money for hiv/aids services and research. you can help by making a donation here: http://www.aidslifecycle.org/1409 .
OoPs Galatea Registered User Join date: 13 Jan 2005 Posts: 9	03-21-2005 15:45 The only zoning I refer to is building a business or a residence...it would be great to know that you could go somewhere and spend your $L, and understand fully that a casino or dance club wont pop up the next day. SOME areas with residential / commercial zoning would be great. Not all. I agree wholeheartedly that people need freedom, but in some cases we need a choice. It would be so cool to get to keep a nice build because you know a Laggy Business full to the hilt with products doesnt pop up overnight. Most of SL still needs to be wide open for building, but there is a percentage that would relish having a 'residential' sim to live in, and that is what I am speaking to. Or a sim that is all businesses....Imagine the traffic!! I think that there is good reason for this type of rule / law IRL...the space here is different, but we have a creative and intelligent enough crowd in SL to figure something out that works for all of us. Another 2 cents ($L 5?) OoPs!
Blue Burke god I love this game :}~ Join date: 5 Jul 2004 Posts: 147	Get over it 03-21-2005 18:01 From: Prokofy Neva Thank you. I couldn't agree more. Let the record show I'm not the only one. Shiryu, the style of that building and the alt's name somehow sound to me like Blue Burke. He made a giant neon-yellow glowing box in Allston similar to that one, and had it on overpriced land, and it seemed as if the idea was that we had to buy that parcel to put that thing out of its misery, because otherwise we'd have to helplessly live with that piss-yellow light pouring over all of our houses and businesses for miles. He claimed it was a "test" later regarding light and FPS and the sim -- let's see if he or whoever Biff is comes forward now that there is an outcry and says it is a "test". I think we can all sure as hell judge that this as ugly and not beautiful, and just its intentions as surely obvious to all -- to extort a land sale from people so that they can get rid of the ugliness OR to devalue land and force people to move, And this is where all the feted inner elite, and the uncelebrated external masses, need to get it in gear and go out and negrate a build like that. That is the ONLY way to end the sense of helplessness and frustration that pervades the game. You can't expect the Lindens to do a thing about this because it isn't technically in violation of the TOS, and if you look to the older, established players, they will get your knickers in a twist with their endless yammering about how it's all "subjective" -- and subjecting us all with the tyranny of the subjective. This picture and this situation, like Anshe's, and like the big black building with the legs in Clunn which I first raised, are all clear and present examples of ugly builds undertaken deliberately to extort and harass. They deserve a pushback. It is easy to form a consensus about this. And the tool for expressing that is the negrate. Those who keep yammering about one man's dream is another man's nightmare forget that all of us have been living far too long with what is clearly a nightmare for everybody. Once again your talking out the side of your neck not knowing what your talking about. I owned land in Maryport. This land was for sale. A land owner next to be built on my land, mistake or not he had a large area of his build on my land. I didn't want to return it so I tried IMing him. After many days with no responce I built a big glowing yellow box and slid it on his land. Well funny but, I got an IM that evening. So again you whine about others all the time. Maybe if you spent less time whinning and more time doing you may have a successful project. Just a thought.
Jim Herbst Registered User Join date: 22 Feb 2005 Posts: 67	03-21-2005 18:29 From: Biff Pendragon i checked simfps before and after i built the tower. i checked again when i took the tower down. i saw no difference in simfps. Older video cards might see client-side lag. i will check with a older video card when i get the chance. lag is not my intention. Heres an idea: Dont do "experiments" that involve bright flashing colors and pain in the future! In the future (whether you like to or not, you should) put up a sign in front of these monoliths to the RGB god explaining why you are doing this to any extent.
Prokofy Neva Virtualtor Join date: 28 Sep 2004 Posts: 3,698	03-21-2005 18:35 From: someone Once again your talking out the side of your neck not knowing what your talking about. I owned land in Maryport. This land was for sale. A land owner next to be built on my land, mistake or not he had a large area of his build on my land. I didn't want to return it so I tried IMing him. After many days with no responce I built a big glowing yellow box and slid it on his land. Well funny but, I got an IM that evening. So again you whine about others all the time. Maybe if you spent less time whinning and more time doing you may have a successful project. Just a thought. Wow, you're coming awfully late to this party, Blue! Did you get all your girlfriends out in droves to scour all the forums to see where I posted "taking your name in vain"? Do you have forum scanners like you have land scanners? You never, never EVER told this story about the land owner building on your land. And given that ALL THE LAND SURROUNDING THE BOX WAS EMPTY, I am astounded that you would trot out this story now! Indeed, it was impossible to get rid of your big ugly glowing box shedding light for miles everywhere because the root prim was spread across several patches. After I had tenants complain, I bought your square and then was chagrined that the big ugly thing didn't disappear. It wasn't my tenant next to the yellow box intruding on your land because we discussed it. You never said a word, in a long conversation at the time, about any intrusive build, nor could it be seen at all. I'll take your word for it. But let me remind you that at the time, you told me a story about "checking FPS on the sim with light builds" and "finding that it's not the number of prims but the size of the prims" or some such. NEVER a word about a grief-builder, and I can't for the life of me figure who this could be. And the story about "checking the FPS" struck me as lame, too, because what right do you have to use all of SL as your experimental FPS-checker, putting up giant griefer towers that can only appear to extort sales? You couldn't just press return on this guy? Huh? What kind of lame story is THAT? Or did he have root prims spread like you did when I bought one, two of your parcels and STILL couldn't shake loose YOUR griefer box? But I didn't see that and I was there. I spend all my time in the game doing, doing, and doing. That is why I have a very successful project right there in Alston and Maryport where all that land is rented out now in a lovely beachside community. To be sure, I didn't put up a glowing neon mall and soak other players for thousands of Lindens after trapping their avs, but they do seem to have a good time nonetheless for the small amounts they pay me which barely cover tier. _____________________ Rent stalls and walls for $25-$50/week 25-50 prims from Ravenglass Rentals, the mall alternative.
Blue Burke god I love this game :}~ Join date: 5 Jul 2004 Posts: 147	03-21-2005 19:02 Hands Prokofy a big block of CHEESE
Gwyneth Llewelyn Winking Loudmouth Join date: 31 Jul 2004 Posts: 1,336	03-22-2005 13:50 Do we need any more proof that anarchy does not work? Well, I thought about the zoning problem, but I guess that zoning does not remove blinking towers - it just separates casinos/malls/clubs from residences. Actually, a simple "zone rule" would be making money transactions not working in a particular sim - at all. But you would still have "ugly" buildings, and rotating towers, etc. on residential zones. I think that the way to go is resident-controlled zoning. I own and rent plots on 4 different places. In all of them the environment is beautifully controlled by the residents themselves, all using different mechanisms - from "good neighbours" (the most difficult kind) to "tyrannical landowners" (who simply enforce the rules for building), with a few degrees in-between. It works. On all of them. So, my point is - people will start to pay more to go into "private condominiums" - large spaces, rented/owned in sims where some sort of community rules forbid you to do "ugly" buildings. This means a change in mentality - you want to buy/rent cheap, well, go to the anarchist sims. You want to have a peaceful Second Life, get a plot in an "organised community". Expect to pay more - but to get a bigger return, from either having more peace of mind, or for being able to sell your plot for much more. To give you an idea, I had a plot of only 512 sq. m. and was offered L$ 25 K (!!!) for it, just because someone wanted to have a plot on a community-controlled sim. And I did not sell it! And it's even in PG land... The bottom line is, ignore the anarchist sims, go to controlled communities, if you can't trust your neighbours to build in a reasonable way. Live in peace. _____________________

Welcome to the Second Life Forums Archive

Immense ugly griefing eyesores, a risk land-owning for residents?