You CANNOT build what you want in a mature sim!!!

Just some insight, food for thought, stimulate some minds, plant a seed, take what you want from it.

Lowell, I took a snapshot of it before it got deleted. If you actually want to see what it looked like, find me in-world (I'm normally in Stanford, I live there) and ask.

Before anyone starts wondering if I'm the one that complained, no I'm not. I thought it was hilarious. I do have to admit, though, that it was not in LOS of my property, and I'm not sure how long it might have taken to get on my nerves if it were.

And finally, for the Lindens: How about adding a third classification, "X", where people like Zoey can build things like this if they want. I'm sure you guys can think of some ingenious ways to prevent items in an "X" sim from being seen outside the sim. Even if it means segregating these sims from the rest of the world and providing a "gateway" between zones.

I can see where this is headed...pg, r, ma, x, xx, xxx....zzzzz. I mean is the penis statue more offensive than the giant toilet? Heck is my house more offensive than the giant toilet ?(no one answer that). Should the adult entertainment store be closed. No, yes, maybe, I dunno, perhaps...you will get as many answers as people you ask. There in lies the problem. What is offensive to me may not be to you. Am I better than you ? are you better than me?
I think an adult game having one extra mature section should be adequate. We all know that the mature sims are an "anything goes " place. They are clearly marked on the map and on their location.
I have no problem with the Lindens acting as censors but I think it would be nice if there was a forum of the residents to voice their opinions. Right now the community standards are LL standards. Maybe a forum about the proposed closing of this object or store...where if most of the community is in favor and it is not violating any laws that it may be kept. So, perhaps we should be trying to somehow incorporate the standards of the community who actually live or visit.
Just my 2 cents

BTW thought I'd let everyone know that in that evening it was up it recieved 16 votes...not bad for being uncreative 13 has been the max on any of my houses and IMHO I do decent designs... Anyway that's enough from me. Good issue to deal with though.

Its a mature sim,YOU chose to live there,other people should not be forced to hide away their structures becasue you dont like it.

If you dont want to see that stuff DONT MOVE INTO A MATURE SIM,its that simple.

Living in a mature sim and complaining about nudity and such is like going to an R-rated movie and then being surprised and offended when there is violence or nudity.

so what next?

add in XXX sims?

If mature sims are no longer free then there needs to be sims where folks who want to can build whatever they please.

hahaha Tracy...that cracked me up.

What really concerns me about this subject is.....Zoey's "penis palace" was torn down because it was deemed "against the public standard".....and i was harrassed and murdered<yes i use the word murdered> for building in a mature area that one "youngster" considered a "battlezone"<yes i am aware that jessie is a battle sim..and i also see a few very nice homes there>and killed many times over trying to return to this plot......and was told in short "thats the price you pay for building in a battle sim" by a linden<this was told to someone who asked in my behalf about this behavior> I guess this life isnt so far from the 1st where murder is considered "the price you pay"..and sex is banished.....

Look -- when I think of a Mature area, I think of the old Times Square (before the revitalization), a small section of New York City. It's pretty seedy, you know that there's definitely some crazy stuff going on behind the storefronts, and people are a little more lax with their appearances and their language. But, if anyone were to do something like display something completely out of line like giant genitals on the street, the city (which also includes the rest of Manhattan, Queens, Brooklyn, the Bronx, and Staten Island) would be down on them like nobody's business.

What I'm trying to say is that even though you're allowed to do "Mature" things, take into consideration that you're still a part of a larger community. You can build anything you'd like, but should you?

You cant apply real life rules to this situation,this is not real life.

This is a game,a game specifically about expression,dont act as though this is some real life city of some kind.

You have to live with what anyone else wants to put up,you chose a mature sim so you have no right to complain that people are putting up mature buildings and such.

To force zoey to hide away her building is to ruin the look she was going for and therefore discourage her from building it at all.

Maerl jessie has always been that way,it is a battlezone and it has been decided that houses should not be there as that creates a residential appearance.

If I were to build a billboard in another sim like many have done then I would be harrassed,the billboard would be covered up by established residents and id be mass negatively rated.

In jessie people have the option of showing their disagreements through force hehe.

...being new in SL..i guess i wasnt aware it had been decided
that jessie was a "no build" for residents...makes me wonder why ive seen several people building there...hmmm....and its not that i was so thick i didnt know it was a battlezone...but to just be shot for building..seems childish..anyway i will leave the "jessie sim" for those who feel the only way to finish a discussion is with the firing of a bullet..have fun boys..its all yours

"It has been decided"? By whom?

Anyone *can* build anything in Jessie so long as they agree to live within the guidelines of the sim as indicated in COMMUNITY STANDARDS. Nowhere in community standards does it say you cannot build a residence in Jessie.

I will endeavor to keep this as brief as possible, but cannot promise to do so since I have a penchant for being somewhat long winded

The penis in question was directly next to my house and was "pointing" directly at it. The <cough> emissions from it appeared as if they were plastering my exterior walls.

It was an eyesore, plain and simple. I hated the fact it was next to me.

Nevertheless, I am upset that it was deleted. That seems like a contradcition, does it not? Why, one might inquire, would I not wish something I dislike, something that is *right next to my home* to be deleted by the Lindens? Quite plainly, because I want the right to erect (please pardon the pun) whatever I please as well. No, a giant phallus is not included in my blueprints for future expansion, nor is anything else that might be of a similar theme. Yet, I chose my property because it is in an M sim. It cannot be viewed from a PG sim, nor does it lie within ANY flight path between PG sims.

I am an adult (a woman if you really must know - not that it makes a bit of difference) and I would like to think that my choice of property allows me the greatest variety of building and conversation options. While I do not necessarily prefer to engage in every option available to me, I do find solace in the fact that I would be able to do so if I so desired. This freedom comes with a price - that price is allowing others the same access to such a palette of options. Invaribly, there are going to be some choices I do not like and would prefer not to see. Yet, in order for my own freedom to remain sacrosant, I feel that I *MUST* allow others to do the same. Is this attidtude idealistic? Of course. Too idealistic, when one considers the attirbutes of human nature? Probably, yet I am the sort of person who would prefer to exhaust every other solution to a problem before state (read Linden) censorship is imposed.

I made a comment to Zoey upon first seeing that ...thing... that I would have found it more amusing had it not been pointing at my house. She asked me if I had a problem with it, and I got the impression that if I had said "yes, it is nasty - please move it", she would have worked with me and found a compromise. I do not know for certain, as I never persued that discourse, but that was the way which I interpreted her tone. I did tell her that I did not particularly care for it's location but I would support her right to make it. I also advised her that I reserved my own right to ridicule it mercilessly so long as it remained. Which I did

If you are still with me at the end of this long post, gentle reader, then I hope that I have helped to illuminate at least one neighbor's attitude toward that monstrosity of controversy. If perhaps you found my attempt at factual prose to be boring and skipped directly to the end, I will summarize for your benefit:

1. The massive penis in question was directly next to and pointing at my house.

2. I thought it was tacky, ugly and generally an eyesore. I was certainally less than pleased it was there.

3. Even so, I am opposed to the fact it was uncerimoniously deleted by the Linden. I feel this way because of my (perhaps silly) idealistic views.

Ultimately, I recognize that the Lindens have the final say so. I do, however, humbly submit my personal feelings on the matter for the record.

- Antagonistic Protagonist

Hoo boy...

I gotta chime in on this... first, the idea that no one wants to see a giant dong full of porn is belied by the HUGE number of votes this thing got within an hour. When our theme opened, I was riding the top of the vote charts for a little while, but even then it was only a FRACTION of the volume this thing was getting.

Second, someone mentioned the giant toilet. Used to be in Lusk, now it's somewhere to the east if I recall. There's a person sitting on it, grunting out a huge bolus of intestinal sculpture, large enough to be smelled in a different area code. You ever been to the toilet right after a stranger made a hideous deposit? Hoooooooo!

Now... you are telling me... a big spurty dong is offensive... but someone taking a crap large enough to kill a brontosaur, IN LUSK, A PG SIM, WHERE IT LIVED FOR MONTHS, is 100% A-OK. I... am sorry... but to quote Mike Tyson, "That's jus' luda-crithhhh."

How can anyone keep a straight face and tell me that a biological process with 4 billion years of history, the very same one that is responsible for each and every one of us being here, is offensive, but the one we close the door for, even to our lovers, is not? I mean, yeah, I voted for the Lusk Toilet I don't know how many times, so I got nothing against it... but please.

Now I'll tell you something, if I went into a mature sim and I saw a big phallic porno store, it woulda MADE MY DAY. I'd laugh and I'd invite my friends over so they could laugh too. If someone doesn't want to see this stuff why are they in a m-sim to begin with? Why are they looking into an m-sim for that matter? I say give people a checkbox:

[ ] Don't render mature sim content

That way, no one has to see anything they don't want to. Takes care of the guy with the monster rig, visibility set to 512 meters, seeing naked people wandering around a sim and a half away. As I see it, moving into an M-sim or going into one, you're on reeeeeeal shaky ground trying to complain about something erotic. Especially when it's on someone else's land and it wasn't put there specifically to raise your bile, i.e. putting obstructions in front of billboards. It's like you go into an adult theater, and they engage in positions A and B, but position C you don't like so much, so you go to the manager. Why? Leave. Just leave.

By those who choose to enforce it.

Jessie is a damage sim,people have the choice to create their own rules throuhg force of arms,some people may have chosen that,that is their secondlife.

I personally have never shot anyone for building in jessie,I've welcomed all,though at the same time I've warned all moving in that they may be met by hostilities.

I have no issue with it,but many others in the past have chosen that jessie should not be residential,some that are still around still choose to enforce it.

Again I am not one of those,I simply stated an unwritten rule made by residents in jessie.

Besides,jessie isnt exactly the best place for you to have a home property if you are not out for fights.

Maybe some of you remember the last time that damage area's were built up with residential buildings by residents not looking for fights?

Ok all you great big freedom of speech guys out in the mature Sims. I have I couple of beans for you to chew on. Let us see how far your open minds stretch. I think I will buy some land there. Maybe I will put up a 50-meter poster of two men engaged in hardcore sex. Or hey how about a snuff pic or maybe some scat. That does not bother you?Great. Maybe I will build a statue to honor oh I don’t know hmm Saddam or maybe Osama. Great if free speech and our own personal freedom on our own land are so important to you guys maybe you won’t mind my freedom of speech. I would not put up those statues because well I think their about as geeky as some of the guys in Jessie, but a pic of two muscle men wrapped up in a sexual embrace sure I can do that. I am sure you big freedom riders will welcome it.

You know you are in the wrong when Jonathan and I agree on something.
It’s not my responsibility or right to educate other people’s children. I would not want anyone other than my sister to explain to my 6-year-old niece what a penis is.
Also since when is your front yard not visible to the rest of the world. Case in point I am a subscriber to a mag called on our backs. I keep it in my bedroom. It’s my right to buy it. If I take that mag and use the pages to wall paper the front of my house so my neighbor then has to see it I have exceeded my rights, and trampled theirs.
Jonathan and I rarely agree but in this case we do. Mature does not mean immature. If you need to look at penis look down or do what I do (open the sock drawer).
……. Jonathan love I do have to agree with Shebang. Put your pants on.

chaunsey,

I just find it interesting because there ARE and have been homes in Jessie. Seems that these persons (I can count Jessie residents on one hand) are more about WHO they let in than what buildings. Also, what is a home? Some people live in a bunker, others in a gingerbread house. Who really cares? Bottom line is do they want to live in a damage sim and put up with the fighting.

And yes, I recall the climate change in the old outlands. Just as I recall Jessie residents crying that people came there "just to shoo them". Well YA. The "new" outlands residents reset the pace. Why not play by the "rules"?

BTW Chauncy I'm really not trying to be hostile here. I just wanted clarification stated since your post made it sound like it was in community standards or otherwise a SL rule when it is not. Its an idea that *some* residents are imposing.
Which of course is fine so long as it is done within community standards.

Correction,the outlands residents complained that people would come and shoot us then they would run off to a non damage sim and therfore we were not able to return fire.

I have no issues with shooting,Ive had many friendly exchanges of fire with people,but if you are going to attack us stay and take the return fire aswell or you are just creating actual hotilities.

Also yes,there are houses,well actually only 1 house.

I personally dont care much,as I said,I do not shoot those trying to build,but I do not make up the entire population and some have chosen that your average residential housing doesnt belong there.

Personally I somewhat agree,I'd like it to look more like a combat zone.

Its no different from little tokyo or other themed sims really,just think of it as a community enforced battlezone themed sim.

If you want to move there you will have to put up with the occaisonal death,not by me,I dont kill folks for building or passing through or anything like that but it will happen.

To tell you the truth maerl is the first person I've heard about that was shot for building in jessie.

Anyone who has built there I have personally welcomed and at the same time warned,I have yet to have any kind of problem with any resident of secondlife personally.

Wow! My interpretation of the community standards is apparently very different from the majority. I was under the impression that penii had a home in the Mature sims. Alas, I see it is not so. Sorry, Zoey.

When I heard there was a giant penis in Stanford, I hurried right over to see it. And it was truly impressive!

And for the record, I supported your right to build it. I hoped sincerely that there was room for a giant penis somewhere in SL, I hoped that our community could be open-minded enough to let others be tacky or juvenile or in bad taste, or, in other words, funny.

But more and more, I read in the forums about how other people are blocking someone's view, or not in keeping with the neighborhood, or in violation of some local PTA collective hive mind, and because their build is "different" it's got to go.

The power of the group to crush the individual is fluorishing out of control in SL.

And I'm sad to see it happen. Once upon a time, we tried to deal with the curves thrown us by others because it was so delightful just to see someone doing their thing and having fun. But the pressure to suburbanize, to conform, to make it all nice and daisy-fresh is going to take all the spontaneity out of SL.

Tolerance. It's very difficult in practice. But I think essential to foster an atmosphere of creativity. If we aren't allowed to fail, to be tacky, ugly, immature, or whatever, then many of us will be too afraid to even try.

I was waiting for someone to build a giant vagina! Now that would have been interesting, and would have made a whole lot of folks uncomfortable. But I guess its best to stay away from anything that makes people uncomfortable, that may be thought provoking, or that may cause the viewer to feel unpredictable responses. This is just a game, and no one should ever be challenged or surprised, or required to exercise that tolerance muscle for even a second.

Bye bye, giant penis, I'm gonna miss you!

None of that stuff would bother me, I'd just ask that if you build a bin Laden statue you allow outside scripts so I can take potshots at it. >:)

Lesbians don't bother me and gay guys don't either and I know a couple in-game who might actually welcome some dude sex. As for the scat/snuff... I've been to goatse.cx, watched a Muslim soldier cut off a Russian soldier's head, and seen ####ing_stop_already.mpg over at Stile Project. I don't think you can find anything legal to show me that will quirk my eyebrow but I welcome you to try. >:)

I guess it doesn't matter a whole lot though, LL has decided.

P.S. Someone just contacted me in-world and said I was being gross!!! It is unfortunate but it is also a fact of life. Anyone who likes hearing about gross stuff, look me up and ask me about Clamp Guy.

This is what I got out of it.

You can do what you want in mature sims. Lindens are just reminding us what we shouldn't do.

It's ok to build a penis shop if it's surrounded by other penis shops.

Well, two things.

First, Maerl found a wonderful piece of property in a very quiet part of the world (with the exception of a few people that think pushing a tower over from the sandbox into Slate for five straight hours).

Second, this is in reply to what Chauncy said about not applying real life rules to this game. This may be a game, but this is a game about community and social aspects. This is not a "game" in the sense that you can win, instead this "game" is much like real life. Just because it takes place in a virtual setting, is no reason to say, "you can't apply RL rules here".

I've always found that when people want to justify their behaviour in a "game", they start with the arguement that "it's just a game". What people fail to realize is that there are REAL people typing on the keyboards, there are REAL people investing their time and effort into building their dreams, there are REAL people and therefore REAL feelings.

If you buy into the lie of "it's just a game", then this "game" will quickly descend into anarchy, since what you propose means anyone can do anything, because you know, "it's just a game".

Seeing how the Lindens have kept strict control over harrassment and abuse, I would tend to believe that the Lindens don't believe it's "just a game". I don't believe it's "just a game". While it is a game in respect that I play it on my PC, that I had to buy it to play it, the fact remains that the people I talk to on a daily basis are real people, they have real feelings, and they are real friends.

It's not just a game, it's more then that. It's a virtual world where people gather and form communities. These communities have as much right to say what goes on in their world. If ONE person tries to do something the whole of the community is against, then just like in real life, the one person will have to put aside their desires for the good of the community.



Bob Bunderfeld

I want into this debate but the posts are all way to long to read, so I'm gonna hold my tongue. I ope u guy kep a' eh ough. Inperessing fuff.
Krow

Exactly. This has been my contention all along. Just because you come here to play, it doesn’t make your fellow players into playthings. Every avatar you encounter is operated by a human who brings his or her own identity - and dignity - to the game. It’s great to play in a “anything goes” world, but it stops being great when one player treats another like something less than human. Avatars are not toys – they are graphical representations of real people who bring just as much of themselves to the game as you do.

<RAMBLING RANT WARNING – the following tirade probably doesn’t pertain to you, so don’t tell me how much it offends you – just ignore it. Those who can see some value, will. (Generic “you” – no particular person meant >

If you think there are ANY rules in the Community Standards that relieve you from the requirement to treat fellow players with respect, then you misunderstand the Community Standards. And, if you feel you’ve lost a freedom by being required to treat all fellow players with respect, then it WASN’T A FREEDOM that you lost. It was just the liberty to abuse other people.

I don’t want to hear any arguments that the Lindens intended that we be allowed to abuse each other under ANY circumstances or in ANY sim. It isn’t true – no matter what you quote out of context. And I don’t want to hear anyone whine that simply having to be considerate of other humans is “taking away my freedoms” - requiring folks to be respectful of each other doesn’t subvert anyone’s freedom – it EXPANDS everyone’s freedoms!

And I don’t want to hear “ I have to be considerate in my First Life – I shouldn’t have to be considerate in my Second Life.” This doesn’t even make sense. You may feel as if you are metamorphosing into a new being when you log on, but you aren’t. The same necessary rule of respect - that you have already learned to apply to your day-to-day dealings with people in the “real” world - still applies here. That rule was not required of you just because of where you WERE, it was required because of who you were dealing with – OTHER HUMANS. So, it makes no difference that you are now in a virtual world, another location. You are STILL dealing with other humans. So, the same rule applies that applied in your home, your job, or any public place: Treat each other with respect, or get the hell out until you can. This is not oxygen. This is not food or water. There is nothing that says we need to make allowances for people who have poor tolerance for others but need to have access anyway. You won’t starve while you’re out re-learning that we’re all humans worthy of respect.

So, if you can’t manage that basic level of adult behavior, don’t get all “I have as much right to be here as you do.” Rights are a mutual arrangement, not something that is DUE you in spite of how you treat others. No judge is ever going to preserve your right to abuse the rights of others. Period. Here are your rights here: to be treated with respect by the company and all players. That’s YOUR right, and MY right. And, as near as I can determine from reading the Community Standards, that’s just about ALL the rights we have guaranteed to us by Linden Labs.

If you choose to ignore that right, or feel there are others guaranteed to you, then you may have signed up for the wrong game. No shame or blame to you for that mistake – simply admit it to yourself and go try another type of game. Don’t waste your time, or ours, trying to make this into a game where other players are just more toys to break.


<RAMBLING RANT OVER>


Sorry folks. Bob made some good points. I was so encouraged to hear what he said that I just had to vent. This has nothing in particular to do with peni.

Nice Kathy - I wish I would macro that rant-speech and play it everytime I suddenly find myself flying 6000 meters in the air or come back from afk to find myself pushed off a cliff or something