Your Security Script? Yeah, Violation of CS.

I've noticed alot of these "security" scripts that either unintentionaly or intentionaly cause the user to experience issues and force them to relog. While I am all for security scripts and protecting your land, these kind, the ones that force you to relog, ARE against the CS and anyone has every right to abuse report the owner for them.

What am I talking about?



The cause of the forced relog is most likely due to a scripting error, maybe its trying to send you home to quickly (timer set to 1 second, SL doesn't have enough time to actualy send your avatar away, so the script keeps trying to send you home).

"But its my land, I can do whatever the hell I want!", to a degree, the CS and TOS clearly state what you can NOT have on your land, and these objects qualify as one of them.

To be clear, security scripts are OK, security scripts that cause a bug which causes the user to have to relog are NOT OK.

How do you know if yours does this? Test it on yourself, or a friend.

So basicly, these scripts are buggy, they prevent users from accessing and enjoying SL. If you see one, please contact the owner about the issue, show them this thread, whatever, if they tell you to blow off, AR it, you have every right to.

They're not only against CS as in Community Standards, but CS as in CrystalShard Foo. Her and I are really peeved about these thingies -- there is not a good reason why they should try to TP you back home several times in a row, thus forcing an inconvenient relog. Just as you stated, Oz.

I am very openminded and I view myself as extremely patient, but the sheer redundancy of how these "security" devices are programmed is unpleasant.

I hope that either the current coders behind these will improve them, or if they don't, certain scripters will introduce new security devices that protect one's land without inconveniencing the "transient trespasser" (as in, you were flying by and had NO intention of snooping or causing any malice). Or BOTH.

Information over ignorance.

Let's keep the word out there.

They're not only against CS as in Community Standards, but CS as in CrystalShard Foo. Her and I aka She and I are really peeved about these thingies -- there is not a good reason why they should try to TP you back home several times in a row, thus forcing an inconvenient relog. Just as you stated, Oz.

I am very openminded and I view myself as extremely patient, but the sheer redundancy of how these "security" devices are programmed is unpleasant.

I hope that either the current coders behind these will improve them, or if they don't, certain scripters will introduce new security devices that protect one's land without inconveniencing the "transient trespasser" (as in, you were flying by and had NO intention of snooping or causing any malice). Or BOTH.

Information over ignorance.

Let's keep the word out there.

If I were to create a security system, I'd much rather be creative and subdivide land, have the outer perimiter as a 'kill zone'. Of course, this is best done with a rather sizeable plot. Call it a 'moat' if you will. The inner area is of course, no damage. The gun has a little bit of push to it, not too much. But it has a decent rate of fire. It steadily pushes till you're over the kill zone then the damage kicks in and you get a ticket home.

Why just a perimiter? So people can't snipe you.

Ah, "It's my land, I can do what I want". I love that quote.

I suppose I should go get some AA guns and shoot down every plane that flies over my house. Gotta have respect for the people passing by, not make moving a through the world a minefield.

I have one of these in Le Cadre... About 700m up in the air above the skating rink and casino... I am unaware if it causes people to relog or not, but I do know it effectively sends them home... If anyone is willing to test this out, and if it forces relog, please contact me and I will make sure to have the script optimized better so this doesn't happen.

They are really annoying, especially if your in an airplane or other craft. Your cruising along minding your own business and then you are sent home, without your craft. You have to remember where you are, go back there, and risk another tp home trying to get your craft back. Why not just use the built in tools so your not so rude to the people that could care less why you think you have to ban everyone from your land?

llTeleportAgentHome and llEjectAgentFromLand should give you the same 15-second warning that the land access controls give you. That way, the scenario Loki mentioned can be averted. If you return to the same land within 24 hours, there should be no warning. Being ejected should bring along whatever you're sitting on with you, if it's owned by you. Being teleported home should return whatever you're sitting on, if it's owned by you.

Short of sending home what you're sitting on, how about an llReturnObject(key id) - with nessesary PERMISSION_RETURN_OBJECTS. That way a security script could do a scan for things the ejected avatar brought with them, as well as being a great tool for land owners doing rentals and whatnot.

But I'll take the just having a 15 second warning for now.

Sensual, very nice of you to take the responsibility.

I like Huns' and Jillian's ideas. The only issue with a non-auto return function built into the eject and teleport home ones, is that not everyone would take advantage of it. While I would love to have a return object function, I can predict that it would go unused in some security scripts. The issue as it is right now is one of either scripting or of people not using the right settings with the script (the script may be fine itself, but could allow for the owner to set the time for scanning manualy, so it may be the settings rather than poor scripting).

I hate these damn security scritps that liek send you straight home or flying with no absolute warning. It's happened to me twice I was flying my Terra Invader 3 over a dudes land, got ejected from me vehicle and forced to relog. And once again while I was flying somewhere I flew over a plot of land and it sent me straight home.


I would not mind if it gave me a "You have 10 seconds to get off this land" warning but....

Yah whatever, why isn't the "Block all users" tab good enough for you people...

We have a development platform at 300m on Parrot Island. I have a network of warning cubes at 200m that shout a warning that we would prefer they go back down and if they continue, they run the risk of being returned home.

There is also a patrolling orb at the 300m level that gives an additional warning. After that, we feel comfortable using the kick function provided in the estate tools.

I had to think very hard about how to balance our privacy with the side effects of security scripts. As sim owners, we have the ultimate privacy tool: we can remove ourselves from the map completely.

On the mainland, though, geez, I am flying 600m to a location, just following the red beacon and BAM, I am at home, or logged off. No warning or anything. I relog and fly back to the red beacon, a little slower this time, and BAM, sent home/crashed.

When flying, you can't see the red lines, and the warning sensors are equipped to scan out to 96m, but if they are giving warnings, they are saying them, not shouting (which I believe will go to 100m.)

I gave a neg to the last person I tangled with on this, only to get a ton of insulting IM's back. Somehow, their right to bone in private overtakes my right to fly to a freaking mall.

Guys, as much as I kinda dread posting in the general forums, let me respectfully give you my viewpoint on this.

Considering the current land toolset, Teleporting an agent home is probably the most effective defence against grief we have, assuming, and only if, it is used responsibly.

I'm not suggesting that the function should be used to TP home *anyone* entering a parcel. That, IMHO, is excessive - and is what a ban list is for. Catching people flying overhead is definately out of the realm of acceptability.

However, if used *only* within the range of a closed structure, used as strictly as a grief-management tool, and tested to confirm the script operates as the function is intended, I don't see any better alternative.

Consider this scenerio:
1. (Using parcel ban only)

Bob Newbie enters an event, and begins begging for money. Bob Newbie is asked to stop, because it is irritating other patrons. Bob Newbie persists, and begins to get agitated about being asked to stop. Bob Newbie pulls out a banana phone and a 20m gorilla that he just got from a freebie area, and proceeds to rez them in the middle of the crowd.

I right-click Bob Newbie, and eject & ban him from the property. Bob is hurled several hundred meters up into the sky, only to come crashing down on the red bars. Bob Newbie is upset now, because he was having fun, and doesn't understand why he was removed so rudely. So Bob Newbie flies as close to the property line as he can get, demanding to be let back in. After a minute or so of being ignored, Bob Newbie raises the temperature a little bit, and begins to start shouting obscenities to make sure he is heard. A Liason must be now called, to put an end to the situation as all of my methods have now been exhausted. By the time the Liason has arrived, half of the crowd has dispersed due to the annoying drama.

2. (Using TP Home)

Bob Newbie enters an event, and begins begging for money. Bob Newbie is asked to stop, because it is irritating. Bob Newbie persists, and begins to get agitated about being asked to stop. Bob Newbie pulls out a bananna phone & a 20m gorilla that he just got from a freebie area, and proceeds to rez them in the middle of the crowd.

I add Bob Newbie to the security system, and he is silently Teleported home. Bob's home is very far from the event, and it will take a while to get back. By the time he does make it back (if he hasn't already moved on to something more interesting), he's a little more cooled down, and more able to discuss the situation calmly.
*****************

Before I formulated a plan to deal with grief, I contacted a Liason to ask what the most acceptable way to deal with a grief situation was. I needed a method that I could delegate - because I'm not online all the time, and my land is not group-held.

What I was told, was that if I wanted to delegate a security system, and my land is not group-held, the only option available to me that fits within the CS is teleport home. Shooting another avatar out is against the CS. Using any push-method to eject a person from my parcel, is abuse reportable. So with the current land tool-set, my choices are somewhat limited. If someone else has a more effective strategy, by all means - share.

Regarding the "Its my land, I should be able to do what I want" quote - (Which you can thank me for ) that was taken a little out of context - or at the very least, not expressed effectively on my part. What I mean is: If I need to eject a griefer, I should not be required to have a universally acceptable justification, especially if it is my own property. If I decide that someone needs to be ejected because they have blue hair (as idiotic as that may be), I should have the right to do so if I feel its warranted. What is unacceptable, is to adversely affect avatars flying over my property, or otherwise not having anything to do with me.

I run a venue that is based primarily upon creating a friendly environment. For the most part, if someone wants to build on my parcel - or otherwise experiment, I encourage it as long as it doesn't disturb others. However, in order to keep it friendly & drama-free, I have to remove people distrubing the peace from time to time. If I had better land tools to prevent various types of grief before they happen, maybe I'd never have to resort to using a security script in the first place.

Hope you can take my comments with an open mind

Travis

The only way I see this as a tool that can be used in SL is if it gave it a timer before zee boot. There's really no excuse to use griefing like this, even if it was only ment to stop griefers. You teleporting a random person home because they were passing over is really uncalled for.

Tren, I know I'm long-winded. But you didn't read my post. I never said it was acceptable to TP home avatars flying overhead, or random people. I'm talking about using this in an enclosed environment, on specific individuals, where people who enter did so by choice.

Give me a better alternative that will still keep the peace

I'm a visitor to Travis's theSHELTER and I've had good times there -- I've never been there when GREEFER KIN were, but I very much frown upon that disruptive troublemaking activity. Especially repeat offenders that, for one reason or another, will not discuss peace with reason and who have not have their accounts removed accordingly.

For those awful situations where a club comes under attack, I wonder if certain security tools with more "active defense" modes could come online (say, with a voice command) ONLY when a griefer is doing all manner of lag-inducing, fun-dampening things.

A main problem us friendly Walkabouts experienced during our jaunt was that absolutely no one was home when we were bounced so many times -- and we were certainly not out to disturb the peace. Anyone could have asked questions to our intentions if they were that concerned.

I had a system that was voice activated at one time. Unfortunately, when there are avatars, particles, music, etc., in abundance, the lag caused the script to either not respond in time or not respond at all.

Thanks, Torley I'm with you - if you're out exploring, being teleported home is lame - especially if you've done nothing wrong.

"The Walkabout"..... ahhh... its all in perspetive now. You guys got bounced constantly? Sure sounds like an abuse of the TeleportHome function to me, and not something I think is cool at all.

At least with my own setup - the sensor range doesn't exceed the inside walls of the club. (Which I spent a Saturday afternoon thoughouly testing). And the only way someone gets on the list, is if I think they're responsible for a serious grief incident (which, admittedly, I've made mistakes as to the perpetrator before in a cloud of C4).

On average, I get about one serious grief experience per week, and minor stuff every day. Granted, we're a newbie spot, so some of that just comes with the territory. If I could have a safer way of dealing with grief (LL, are you listening?), I'd be more happy than I could tell you

*grins* yeah Travis -- it's part of a larger context. Oz and I have our respective adventures, some of them shared, like the gridverse-wide walkabout that happened earlier today after Cubey's idea sparked us to put one foot after another.

This was just the latest in a long string of being bounced for me, though. I had to relog several times after several aggressive home defense systems slammed me repeatedly and I had to shout "FLY UP! UP!" to my fellow walkers. There have also been previous times when I was, well, flying around at a certain altitude (sometimes in a vehicle), and suddenly I get jolted and find I have to relog.

I'm with you, Travis, in hoping further shared dialog between the Residents and LL will enable better methods to keep enjoyment levels high and severely discourage griefing. (In the "land griefers" category, just like some sims are zoned for suburbia, I'm all for having sims specifically zoned for lagged-to-heck flashadelica. )

Also, I'm personally for a TON OF BRICKS approach with repeat offenders. (Thanks to Bel Muse for the original phrase, and I'm expanding the context. ) During an Event or even a general space of time of interaction with someone disruptive, the first time may be an accident (if someone accidentally shoots someone with a gun -- I've done it before), the second time during is far less likely, and the third, in most logistical circumstances, leaves little little doubt as to the motives of the perpetrator. And when friendly communication fails, I know what to do.

Well, this discussion has me rethinking a few things. I think the following changes are in order at least for me:

1. If someone must be "added" to a security list, they should be added, then immediately removed so that its a one-time TP. Of course, fair warning should be always be given unless that's not possible based on the situation.

2. Only repeat or seriously extreme offenders should be "added" on a more permanant basis, which can always be reversed via friendly communication.

Hopefully, that'll keep this thing as least-intrusive as possible

(Oh, and LL - you're still not off the hook for those better land tools )


Trav

I honestly don't think its so much an issue with teleporting people home, as much as it is in how its used sometimes.

I think anyone would be a bit silly to not have any type of security on their property if you get high ammounts of traffic regularly. I even have a command based system on my property and I don't even get that much traffic.

Just to be perfectly clear, I do not mean *all* security scripts are a violation of the CS, nor is this thread directed at any one individual (I've encountered many such scripts and I doubt its the same person). Its the specific type that causes you to log out. Even if someone was greifing you and your security script caused them to log out, most likely that'd be against CS too (thats a sticky situation).

Also the "my land" comment wasn't taken from anyone specificly, I've heard many say it in defense of stuff that even they probably know is against the rules, and some say it when they were well within the rules as well.

Just wanted to say that so the thread doesn't get locked. I'm not accusing anyone or promoting a witch hunt (mule hunt maybe, but not witch hunt).

About how security scripts should act... that could and has taken up many thread pages in the past before as well. Generaly its regarded to be nice to give warning first before doing anything, but it does not seem required by SL law to do so, and in alot of situations I don't blame anyone for not giving warning.

Regardless, with or without warning, to cause a user's client to become unresponsive and to cause the user to be sent out into limbo is obviously against the CS.

And please, no one go around just wildly ARing people, always try to talk to the person first and resolve the situation adult like, then if that doesn't work, go crazy.

Edit to add: Oh, and yes better land tools would always be much appreciated.

Personaly my biggest problem with the "TP agent home" function is that it does not TP you home.

It makes you relog.

This happens when the script is faulty and designed in such a way that it tries to send you home -multiple times-. This is because the TP process takes awhile and is not instant, and during that time, the script keeps detecting your presence and attempts to kick you over and over and over again. It is this design that forces you to relog. And its this design that really, really aggravates me.

CS, hon...

If you write and release a public script that meets your approval, for instance with a warning and grace period, and without hammering the tp over and again til it happens, I'll gladly stop tping you away 'n' making you relog

I think this is the best suggestion I've heard so far as to dealing with this problem.

Which is avoided by not having an over-active security script... which isn't really good for the sim in any event.

I'm torn on this one.

I agree that it's wrong to do something that causes a person to have to relog. And I have always argued in the past that if the bug is known the burden of guilt should be on the person going ahead and using it aanyhow when it can be avoided, even if LL should fix the bug... and that is still my position.

That said, as a land owner involved in several large projects, I can understand the temptation, and find it hard to be overly opposed to some of these scripts, some of which were probably programmed by a scripting newbie who was having a hard time getting it to work at all. The commercial ones for sale, that's a different story.

Linden Labs, despite what anyone might claim, has given us effectivly no land control options that work. Any build that goes above 40 meters is completely open, for example. Even if your build doesn't, there are tons of forms of griefing that can be done. This is completely ignoring the issue of privacy, which LL has also given us little in the way of tools to protect.