Death Threat Redux

Newfie,

This has all been handled privately through abuse reports and contacting LL, over and over again, with the end result being the person coming right back into SL and starting anew. This is not the first, or second, or third, or fourth suspension.This has nothing to do with 'the court of popular opinion", it has to do with speaking out in a public forum on a serious situation that continues unabated because of questionably lenient punishment.

but the question still remains...

did she contact the RL police? Harassment is harassment. Internet or not.
Maybe when she does that and provides a case number to LL, there may be a
little more action from them for her.

Why? How is that going to help? There already is a proper course of action. Report the abuse to the Lindens and then report the stalking to local law enforcement and to the division of the FBI that handles online threats.

Anyone besides the Lindens that would want access to my private information are exactly the sort of people who I don't want to have it. What makes you so sure that this RL government you are avocating for SL would not have a serial killer in it's mists anyway? Do you think that government representatives and law enforcement are immune to harboring the occasional nut case?

This sort of thing shoud be handled on an individual by individual basis. Though as Cristiano has stated - this person should be permanently banned and not allowed to return with an alt. That's about all the Lindens can do.



It is the responsibility of the person being stalked to report the stalker. Linden Labs cannot make such assumptions, to do so, would open them to greater liability than to not do so. Again, I do think that the person, once reported to the Lindens, should be permanently banned but that is the extent to which the Lindens or anyone else in Second Life should be involved.

A real player government with true legal power and access to customer records would send me running out of SL quicker than mixing the teen with the adult grid. LL Supplying my personal information to ANYONE in or outside of SL without a valid warrant, would send me to a lawyer faster than the time it took me to close my account.

The last thing we need in SL are a bunch of vigilante minutemen armed with our real life names, addresses and credit card information.

I think this should be taken very seriously by all of us. This sort of threat is among the most serious forms of harasment there is. More so that racism, so profanity, or any crime against a group. This is a threat to the life, health, and safety of a person. The legal ramifications are interesting, given the uncertain status of online games as Common carriers. I dunno if linden having knowlege of the possibility of the crims means they have a duty to report it, or if any of us do either. Accessory after the fact sort of sobers me though. Its been a few years since I thought like a prosecutor.

In any case, there is also a personal issue. This is someone we knoe who is threatened. Hell yes she should report it. And since it is a violation of teh TOS, LL shoudl step in, especially now that it is here on the forum and they have at least constructive notice of the situation.
Imagine how it would look if someone did get hurt? A ban is in order.

On the server I play on in NWN we had problems with griefing. on individual in particular.
The host of the server logged the transgressor's IP address, and we discovered that his ISP had a policy against using their service for purposes of harassment. Screen shots were shown and the ISP account was pulled.

Ther eare things you can do in these situations, and it does justify all the hard work it takes to report this stuff. This is really a no brainer: ban this guy and report him and push every available remedy. Now the question is who should do this? Well the victim, yes, but understandbly she may be more afraid of him taking relatilitory action. LL has obligated us in a contract call the TOS. In matters of death threats they should take the UTMOST seriousness and pursue all available action.

Scratching my head in amazement!

I just do not understand the apparent LL disconnect??

Lack of will? Lack of leadership? Lack of sound legal council? Lack of upper management's leadership?

And tell me again why I'm suppose to trust LL with a teen gird?

The issue that I see with LL reporting this to the FBI or local law enforcement instead of the victim is that it could be construed as hearsay despite the chat logs. The perpetrator could explain the threats by saying that he and the victim were involved in role-play, which in an online MMORG is not so inconceivable.

If the perpetrator is subject to arrest, court action, lost of income or can in any way prove that the Lindens jumped the gun and seriously inflicted damages by falsely reporting him, they could possibly be liable.

However if the victim reports the crime to law enforcement then law enforcement is getting the information first hand from the affected party.

Just a thought - I could be wrong but I'm just following the lines of logic in a very litigious society.


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Teen grid? What about your money?

I'm still awaiting some fundamental answers to questions related to the issue raised in this thread. To be fair, yes, LL says they're working to "fix the hotline" (in which the questions are posed). I want to give LL the benefit of the doubt, but the longer these problems persist -- and the longer my questions go unanswered -- the less I feel able to.

of note:

if ll has done anything about death threats in sl that involves criminal or civil laws, until there is resolution (and maybe not even then) ll couldn't/shouldn't talk about it.

so jumping down ll's throat about this isn't going to be that productive, if one want to know if ll is doing anything about it in a legal arena.

on the other hand an unambiguous statement (or reiteration) about ll policies on such things would help clear things up.

I think the potential civil cost for possibly jumpoing the gun will be nothing like the civil and possibly criminal costs if something did happen. But that is really not the issue.
Presumably between the time it is reported and the time any rl action with respect to arrest has been taken against the perp. There has been a law enforcement investigation that would rpovide grounds for any such arrest.

Secondly. The individual participates in SL on a voluntary basis, and has agreed to abide by the TOS. It is perfectly within LL's right to take action against this person that bans them from the server. Furthremore a similary TOS may well exist with this persons ISP. They have a right to be informed of what this individual is doing, and LL is in a good position to do so.

You are right that I would expect any involvemnt LL has to be kept under wraps, but a statement about the TOS has been made for much less than death threats. I for one would like to know that LL takes death threats as seriously as it does photos of Cross burnings.

Also I am aware of no Court decision or legislation that Isolates an online community like SL from potential criminal consequences as an accessory to a crime. There may be one, I don't know. But We are in a grey area here. Logic dictates that you might regard SL as nothing more than a carrier, and they cannot be charged with knowledge of the content, but then again this is posted on a public forum, and on a public profile in the game. It is so much easier to head these questions off before charges are filed. Its a very real, very serious issue. And one that should be brought to the attention of the community

I think the key, and clear issue is, this person has repeatedly broken the ToS, in a very serious way, and continues to be allowed back in SL to do it over and over again. Law enforcement aside, that shouldn't be allowed by the company who's ToS is being repeatedly broken and ignored.

I would think death threats would be one chance occurrances. If the person comes back from suspension and does it again, they should be perma-banned, inculding any alt accounts. This obviously has not been the case. Nor was it on the second chance, third chance or fourth chance.

Yep - seems pretty simple.

Enforce the TOS.

Keep in mind that all it takes to register an account is a valid credit card. If a griefer asks a friend or relative to register on their behalf, Linden Labs will have no choice but be reactive in the matter simply because they won't know the difference between a returning griefer and a legitmate new user until the damage is done.

LL has used IP bans in the past - there are additional means to block access besides simply credit card (or even IP).

Eff right off, right now. Just go.

You have no right to assume yourself in power over me, not at any time, not in any place. You want to steal my IP and private details because you think you're god or some kind of self appointed leader over me? I will take you down. Because MY government, the UK government, has laws to protect me from people who decide today is a good day to invade the privacy of others.

This thread raises a good many questions about the TOS and its enforcement. Should (god forbid) something happen to this woman, to what degree could LL be held responsible? Knowing it is a violation of their TOS and they had been repeatedly informed about the behaviour and failed to take serious action. (A temp ban is not "serious" action.)

I also find it disturbing that many attribute stalking and this kind of behaviour to men. I was stalked by as many as 3 different women in TSO all equally unstable and scary, though as is often the case, it didn't become obvious until some time after meeting them.

The other thing I find almost laughable is the all to common charge of "pasty white dweebs hiding behind keyboards" I think all of us would be quite shocked and amazed at just who does play SL and other online games. I would be suprised if even 25% of the people here fit that description.

Back to the main topic. Anyone receiving these type of threats should expect the company to actually look into it and if logs and repeat offenses are found they should act upon it decisively and aggressively in order to put a stop to this kind of behaviour. There should be no tolerance for threats of this kind, for any amount or monthly fee.

Good point - also had not considered that the persons ISP may also ban the person. Perhaps LL needs to modify the TOS to point out that stalking and threats are RL crimes in the U.S.

Any person who threatens anothers RL using SL as the medium to do so should at very least be permanently banned though.


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At a minimum.

Poll started - click link in sig below.

Linden Labs has no obligation to tell us anything.

With that said, they send ENTIRELY the wrong message by refusing to do more than temporarily suspend people who insist on acting in violation of their Terms of Service.

I do not particularly care to hear that "Jackass X" was banned for their activity. However, I DO care to have SOME LEVEL OF ASSURANCE that "Jackass X" will not be repeatedly permitted access when they have demonstrated time and time again they have no intention of doing anything other than violate the Terms of Service.

There is not an inherent contradiction in the above paragraph. What is there is the expectation that Linden Labs ENFORCE their Terms of Service and instill in me, the customer, a sense of belief that they will consistantly do so.

I am a new player, and I find my confidence in Linden Labs in this area to be flagging badly.

So... what will happen to the person that carpeted Prof's land? What will happen to this 'Hero Codesmith'? In all honesty, I have no idea. But if I can tell you this -- if I see these two names online at the end of May (and I will be looking), I'll be cancelling my subscription. Why? Because a company that will not enforce their ToS is communicating very clearly that they do not care enough to keep my business... so they will not have it.

Do I expect my leaving (if it comes to it) to 'make a difference'? No, My expectations will have died by then... that's rather the point.

OMG wtf, someone is Messing with my good friend liv? Oh hell no! LOL ill shove my prim Leather heels up his Booty hole! LOL mess with liv, is like messing with my sister!!!!!!!!!!!

GIMME his name in world! LOL if he is still doing it! LOL ill take care of him! LOL


Sorry i cant help myself, im ghetto, get over it cuz i did a looong time ago!



* Gotta wuv the prim leather heels! *

sticking around with very few expectations makes it easier to see things sometimes.

Would they be the same 'stuffy assholes' taking bullets on your streets?Would they be the same 'stuffy assholes' who die trying to save lives?The same 'stuffy assholes' who see some kind of morality in attempting to protect the innocent? People like you me me puke.



Yes of course you will, you'll dial 911 or 999 and have a 'stuffy asshole' come and arrest him.



Hooray for common sense.



SL isnt the medium.The medium is the internet and would be treated as such in court.LL are NOT legally obligated to protect anyone from anything so lets let that rumour die.Are they responsible in a moral reguard?Thats open to debate of course because as someone has already stated we are all here of our own free will, but at the very LEAST this kind of thing cant be good for business.

I am going to ask this question again because no one has answered it...

What is SHE doing to help herself in this case? Has she gone to the RL police about it?

If not, why? Its one thing to BE a victim, its another thing to PLAY the victim.

Not saying she is but I am saying you need to do things to help yourself in these case, and not expect LL to do everything. This is SL but its also the internet. Laws have been made to protect people on here. But the first step is protecting yourself.

As has been mentioned by many, and I will re-iterate: take this to the FBI cyber-crime folk. They will likely not harm LL, but will likely ask them to produce identifying information. You'd be amazed at how much a visit by the FBI to someone who likely lacks intent other than to threaten will dampen their desire to do this.

This matter is way beyond LL's scope of abilities and wishing otherwise won't make it so. The threats should stop and having the FBI know that you have made such threats serves as a severe deterrent toward future threats and any retalitory action the knowledge that the FBI knows where you are and what you have threatened makes you the first person they come looking for in the event of further action.

Cristiano, you know you have my high regard - and I only know the threatened by virtue of these posts. I am not advocating any action that ought harm LL or SL, but this matter is beyond them. To make a lousy analogy, it is like asking your lawyer for help with your brain tumor. Indeed, were this happening to someone I knew, I'd rather the antagonist not be banned as it provides more evidence by which to pursue them.

Good luck, but please do take action beyond posting. I believe your claims. So likely will the people with real enforcement capability find them worthy of at least looking into.

What she is doing outside of SL regarding this is a private matter. However, the entire issue of this thread is about the lax enforcement of TOS allowing her and others to be repeatedly victimized by players with little recourse. Certainly anyone who feels it is a serious situation should contact the police if they feel in danger.

LOL. In my country, pal, the 'stuffy assholes' are Her Majestys Customs and Excise. They certainly dont take bullets on my streets or save lives, or attempt to protect any innocents. People like you who make assumptions about people like me make me puke, so I guess we're even



I assure you, given the police force in my locality, being as it is a well known fact you can't rely on them for anything - most in fact being corrupt or small boys in uniform who tend to run scared from any real problems, calling them would be the last thing most people would do in any situation.