Poor customer service

Hey that thing is important to me. I can talk about it a bit if I want to. You can't silence me totally cause it suits you What about when you talk about stuff that's important to you? Be fair.

It's not like I popped in, slapped a link in here and popped out, I made a fair comment. Be fair please.

A BIT? Don't you think posting an average of twice per thread about this damned thing could be considered more than "A bit"?

Your annoying posting is hurting your cause more than anything. You are coming across as whiney and no one is paying attention to what you are saying because your constant spam littered with demented slogans is annoying at the very least.

hehehehe, check his thread for real now.

-Flip

Jsecure,

Thank you - as I said though, I am not interested in forming a union. I do believe that we individually have a voice, and any kind of group would tend to put the needs of the group above the needs of the whole community. That is human nature. I think your idea is interesting - unions have served useful purposes over time in prrotecting employees and raising issues. However, those same unions also have the potential for corruption and abuse and I have never been big on group-think. I am much more of an individual.

Perhaps it is naieve of me, but I do think that one person who is persistent enough does have the ability to be heard.

Yes I'm aware two people are having an argument on my thread... I'm just staying out of it

Christiano,

I choose to respect that, but I think I forgot you weren't interested when I saw your yes vote. I'll keep your opinion in mind from now on, I have respect for you and what you choose.

I didn't say a union couldn't work, that is why I voted yes - I am just not interested in joining it personally - I was not shooting down the idea.

Sorry I must have phrased what I said wrong, I know you didn't shoot it down, I feel like saying thanks for your support, but I want to say I support you for your views. Just cause you're not in my group, I know you're a good and fair guy, and I want to say "Thanks"

** That sounds a bit weird too, let me try again **

* I know you didn't shoot it down, you voted yes which I think was really supportive of you and I'm grateful

* I also want to give you my support cause I think you make a sound judgement

* I think you're a decent man, and I've never been a friend of the griefer, and I'm sorry it happened to you.

* You're always welcome at my place. I have no bad feeling for you But I do think you're a good man

Well, it appears yesterday my land was also griefed... maybe.

I came online yesterday to have my friend tell me that we had a problem. There were over 300+ prims added to my land which were completely unlocatable. This is why I'm not sure if it was griefing or some bug in the system... She is a very smart kitty and if those things could have been found, she would have found them with one of her many wizbang magical gizmos... but there was nothing to be found, apparently. o.O

Well, these additional items had pushed the total over the max allowed for my property, so some stuff got returned... strangely nothing of mine, but a couple dozen of her items.

All 300+ prims cleared when I did a Return from the land management box, so it makes me think there were actual items obscured in such a way that item scanners and other arcane tools could not locate them. Or its a very weird bug.

Anyway,

-Ghoti

There is a bug that allows for totally invisible / unselectable / undetectable prims that even keep their scripts running. Even Debug options can not detect them. I reported it about a month ago and had a Linden out to my build to explain how it was possible. I have not seen a fix for it in the release notes. This 'may be' what is being used here. And, no - I didn't tell anybody how to do it, nor will I.

Dang, I really dont want to enable auto-returns since I have folks hanging out doing building, coding, and stuff.

From what I'm understanding of the bug Al mentions, there's no way to get rid of these things except to do a return, which only tells the griefer when their griefing is discovered and that its time to come back for another hit.

Lindens need to fix this shit.

-Ghoti

First Cris, let me apologize if you weren't able to get the help you needed. You're right in thinking we don't have all the tools we need to help you get rid of unwanted objects. Improved tools are on the schedule for after the release of 1.6.

In the meantime, there are things that landowners can do to deal with this sort of griefing behavior. If objects are deeded or set to group ownership, any third-party objects will appear in the Other category, where they can be returned via About Land or through Autoreturn. The current tools should return all Others objects before any Group objects, so setting things this way should prevent malicious users from trying to "eject" your build by bringing in their own objects.

For more information on how to manage objects on group-owned land, please see the support wiki.

Robin,

Thank you for the post - however, one of the main issues is that in fact some group items were returned (especially old items), while items not owned by the group remained on the land - aka the 2500 prims placed by two people not associated with the group. I know how to manage group land (especially after being condescendingly told about how group land works by Lee repeatedly instead of receiving any actual assistance), in spite of its many flaws. The reward I have had for using group land is having a house that was in Federal for a year and a half returned by the autoreturn even though it was set to group, all my scripted items deleted, and now this. I hope to god the same thing does not happen in Mavericks, or I am not sure what I will do.

Additionally, Pete Fats pointed out earlier in this thread that on more than one occasion, just his items were able to be returned. Do you have the capability to do this, or do you not? I am glad more advanced land tools are coming, they are sorely needed - but what is also needed is an examination of your policies regarding protecting your users items, and also the quality of your support staff. I know more than one player who will not deal with certain members of your support staff because of how they have been treated by them, and my experiences have mimicked theirs - if I receive either person again I will ask to speak to someone else. There are so many things you guys do so well, but I have to admit that the problems with items just being deleted with no recourse scares me even more than items being returned, and is really disappointing.

Yes, luckily I had my friend to clue me into how group land works and such, and we were already set up the way Robin mentions. Still, some of her items, which were all in the group already, were returned. If we had NOT done this set up previously I would have been shit out of luck, from what I'm hearing here.

Several things need to exist:

1: a button to DELETE items not owned by group (why tell the griefers its time to come grief again when they get their items all returned?)
2: Ability to write to a notecard a list of all items on a parcel: object name, description, and OWNER so that we can better manage the objects on our land and report abusers.
3: a button to Delete PERSON's items so that once we find that some asshat has dumped a bunch of griefing prims, we can REPORT them, and delete just that person's junk.

-Ghoti

*sighs*

Again, go to the technical archives.

There are several LONG threads there about this very thing happening to others for the last 1.5 years -- their group objects being returned for absolutely no reason.

Bring it back up to the top of the "fix-this-please" list and let's hope it gets in 1.6


The very sad thing is that in order to be good at customer service you have to be able to listen and almost interview your customer when a complaint or techinical request comes in. What I'm hearing and seeing above in Cris' initial post of what occurred when he called and Robin's reply is simply a "canned script" response. People get angry at canned script responses. Good customer support listens, reflects some sympathy, offers maybe some advice, or even, god forbid, yes they even acknowledge that they know about this 1.5-year-old BUG that is on the "to-do" list.

Then again, a canned script is so much easier to do than actually looking in the bug database or wiki. You do have a database... nevermind.

I agree that LL needs to review their customer support policies and better instruct some of the staff as to how to better deal with unhappy customers. While the representative may not be able to immediately remedy the problem, their tone and demeanor can go a long way to help aleviate a customer's frustrations. I too have had some discouraging conversations with representatives of LL. While any of us hate to hear 'no' when contacting a company about a problem or perceived problem, there are certain things that should not be done to further antagonize the customer.

I will offer a few tips derived from phone conversations I have had in my recent dealings w/ representatives from Linden Labs.

1) When a customer is telling you about massive problems, that are known issues, do not laugh. Laughing would be appropriate if the customer was telling a joke.

2) To not take a condescending tone with the customer, regardless of what you feel their experience level is.

3) When a customer mentions that they are looking for land, do not reccomend going to Anshe Chung . This one really pissed me off. While I have absolutely nothing against her, at times, I try to offer a little competition to her. The positive aspect of this was that I learned the correct pronounciation of her name. ahn- shay

4) If your company makes an error, admit it and apologize. Even if you personally had nothing to do with the problem, you represent the company that did.

All of my experiences with LL's customer service have not been so dismal however. There have been many shining instances where they have solved the issue politely and effectively. Unfortunately those are usually left in the back of our memory, behind the negative experiences. I will post a few tips as to what you should continue doing based on my experiences.

1) Do what Colin is doing. This guy is a shining star in your organization. Everytime I have had the pleasure to deal with Colin, I have felt as if somebody cares. While I have not always left the conversation with the outcome I had hoped for, he always explained why, in a respectful manner. Thank you Colin.

2) Upper level management should continue to contact people with problems. While my inventory issues where never resolved, once Philip heard about them he contacted me personally, several times. He also put LL's ace on the job, Phoenix. As a customer, it takes some of the anger away when you know the "top dogs" are concerned with your issues. Thank you Philip and Phoenix.

3) Keep that sexy voice on your voice menu. Is that Echo Omega?

4) Continue to pump out the best damn product on the internet.

Please remember that we fully support and respect you, as a company, as a product, and as individuals. We would not take the time to write out such passionate critisisms if we did not. And we too are in utter disbeleif that this product has shaped our lives so profoundly. In many cases we are paying way more in tier fees then we ever would have dreamed. Many of us have tier fees rivaling our RL mortgages, some take this as seriously as you do. We see the potential and still have the faith in SL. Please treat us that way.

Isn't she the biggest land seller in SL? What is wrong with offering you some advice?

This was said by a Linden on the phone. Why would they advocate one land reseller over another?