Copyright Theft & Positive Experience with SLAC

Recently I saw a noobie running around with my old v2.8 katana...

... only it wasn't mine, it was renamed to SLAC Katana. I thought, WTF???????

After sending an IM to Atmos, Keesor, and Aestival insisting they remove all copies for sale and refund money, I then found out the developer's nightmare:
-- The katana was set to modify / transfer. DOH!!!!

So I reported abuse, IM'd Nova Linden who was a sweetheart and came lightning fast.
I lined up my sword and theirs side by side, Nova agreed that it was an exact copy.

Aestival responded, then Taylor Thomspon (who runs / manages Briarcliff) responded, all showed up for a nice party.

Aestival was an absolute pleasure to deal with, as was Taylor. Aestival immediately saw the problem, saw that the sword was even still marked as created by me, and immediately took the box off the market.

Taylor pointed out that reselling others' products on the island is strictly forbidden, and was a great help straightening things out.

Atmos then responded, being the person who set up the box for sale, was equally apologetic and refunded every sale of the katana to me as copyright owner. He explained that he purchased the rights from creg Rutherford, and got him to meet us as well.

creg had purchased the rights from... another person who I will not name as of yet. I met this person literally on day 1 of SL, had trusted this person, and after he BEGGED for a mod copy of the katana to script himself, promised up and down not to resell it or give it away.

I am immensely impressed with the quick response of Linden Lab via liason Nova Linden, who I now have a crush on!

I am immensely impressed with the quick response and willingness to admit accidental wrongdoing by SLAC via Atmos and Aestival. They went above and beyond what I expected for reparations, including returning sales moneys and letting me know who bought them (which fortunately was only about a half dozen).

I am impressed with Taylor for the assistance overall. And I am impressed with creg with his openness about his source and his apology.

...

As a creator and artist in SL this is a nightmare situation and all parties involved were excellent. I want to endorse Briarcliff Manor - as it's a cool looking sim with nice shops. Additionally SLAC has some nice anime avatars for sale which are really nice looking.

Thank you all for bearing with my frustration and for your kind, more than appropriate reaction. You are professionals at the highest and I will be happy to continue to recommend you all.

SLAC plug:

Second Life Anime Cosplay (SLAC)!
We are located at 181,150 Briarcliff Manor
Who we are:
The Owners: Atmos Kuroda, Keesor Molanari & Aestival Cohen
The Staff: Kento Kim
SLAC Specializes in creating quality avatars based on Anime & Pop culture icons. Each model is made by a talented artist who captures the spirit of the character portrayed.

Remarkable. It's great you posted about this in such clear and concise detail, Hiro -- if this story went untold, I would have been unaware as to your positive experience.

The world -- and the virtual world -- needs more of this.

and speaking of, I know Aestival from previous encounters at some events (very nice No Face, word has it that it's been improved ), and I met him early on in my adventures into Second Life. Class to talk to, he was answering some of my questions about anime culture.

I've got Second Life Anime Cosplay on my list of explorations.

Will be arriving in the due course of the spacetime continuum.

GOD SAVE THE QUEEN!

That is AWESOME to hear. I love it when things work out.

But Hiro - I SAW NOVA FIRST! She's MINE!

-Flip

Awesome experience, Hiro..thanks for posting it. I've never been to Briarcliff, but with this incredible endorsement, my Av (the consummate Shopper) (as Flipper can tell you) will definitely be a customer. And I will those friends of mine who think I have an SL Rolodex for where to get things - that Briarcliff is a place to go.

For every 100 'awful things happened' post - one like this does a bit of healing. Again, thanks for posting and in such wonderful detail.

hehe, happy that happened to you, except mine didnt quite work out that way(not from SLAC of course ),

I made a few casino games because it became a dwindling group who made them and thought it would make me some money.Yet, one day I sold them with mod and copy on >_<...luckely, when the idiots decided to buy them THEY DIDNT WORK!(lucky me)

At one time, I recieved about 40 IMS A DAY from people asking if they can have a refund or get a fixed version and I explain to them why it wasnt me who sold it, but a scammer. I filled abuse and got a generous email saying,

'Dear Ming,
Due to the fact you sold the item with mod on, we cannot really help you. If you feel this was a permissions hack, then please reply to this message.'

Im still getting IMs to this day for support of broken casino games....

I discovered the person who sold it and I get a:
"Justin Williamson: You sold those games to me with transfer and copy on, so I have the right to resell it if I wish. Like it or not"

Here is a moral to the story:
DONT BUY GAMES FROM A PERSON WHO DIDNT MAKE THEM!

Hope this help those casino owners that want to buy games



--Ming

Torley, Just listened to your techno...

rock on!

err..or should I say

TECHNO ON!

Very Cool...

-Ming

I gotta say, IMHO Nova is one of the best things that's happened to SL. In a past project of mine, there were some "issues" to put it mildly and Nova was always there quick like a bunny to help us out.

-Meiyo

Thank you very much Hiro for endorsing our store. I'd like to thank Hiro personally, because unlike other businessmen, he did not constantly IM me and was respectful during our conversation. I also agree that SL economy would be a lot better if business arguments proceeded smoothly as ours. Its good to know that some people still have business ethics in SL. After meeting with so many people in SL, a lot of business owners only care about making money and profit. So thank you to Hiro for being very understanding of this issue and I apologize to him once more. The moral of the story is "Never buy stuff from strangers".

Thank you graciously... I'm happy you like my beats, basslines, an' melodies. "Rock on!" is fine -- hey, to me, it's all rock-n-roll

Cheers.

Gotta say that I have to wonder how the post would have read if things hadn't gone the way it did.

"@#$!#@!#@$!!!! dang!!! Read the freaking post!!!!
OMG can;t you see!!!?!??!? Read the freaking post!!!@#!#@#!@#!
Please delee this thread!!@!@##!@# Nothing else to say.. it's all been said!@#!@#!"
???

But glad it worked out.

: )

Glad everything worked out.

I love it when a plan comes together.. that reminds me, gotta log in tonight to put my foot up the ass of someone reselling my free houses for 500 lindens.

I haven't got an IM email for 2 days -- I figure they must be capped.

Figure seeing I'm on haitus, I really don't have much to lose by 'greifing the griefers'.

Siggy.

Excellent! congrats to everyone involved top notch ppl!

Cath

Siggy, or... Hannibal?

I pity da fool!

If visual comparison was truly the only criterion used, then I must say that this was horribly unwise. I can build my own copy of whatever you can build, without checking the numbers or using a script. In fact, I have done that more than once and will continue to do it in the future
The proper way to handle this is through DMCA and not subjective visual assessment.
Also, unless the item was unlocked through a bug, you explicitly granted permissions for people to modify and transfer/resell that item. The permissions should be thought of as a legally binding contract. You do not have the right to change your mind later.
One should never be protected from one's own stupidity. It disrupts the grand trial-and error learning process that is a natural part of life and allows people to remain stupid indefinitely. The fact that modern governments are so keen on doing it is one of the main culprits of 90% of people being stupid.

Manufacturing process and blueprint design are both copyrightable under law. Even if I was relying just on visual assessment, I could have had a clear case.


Incorrect.
No where has Linden Lab stated that these are legally binding. Period.
They have, however, stated copyright protection as legally binding. I have every right to
give someone a full mod object under the explicit condition that it not be sold for profit.

A fairly clear example of this is music data on CD - sure, it's technically ABLE to be copied, modified, and transferred, there is still copyright by the artists to protect it.


Well this is a tangent now. I'd tend to agree for the most part, but it really has no bearing on this thread. The bottom line is if you assert your copyright, the actual permissions of the object are sort of moot.

Maybe this is one reason Cory & LL is pushing for the contract-centric permissions - so that the copyright IS explicitly set.

Ah, sorry, I missed that thing about the creator tag. But making my own version of something is never illegal, even if it is nearly indistinguishable from what you make. That's why we have brands. And chinese factories making copies of everything the western world does for ten times less money.

Meh....

Eggy, did you read how this copy of the Katana came to be?

I have, on more than one occasion, given friends copies of items that do not exist anywhere else in SL. I have given them with mod and copy on BECAUSE they are friends. I have told them not to distribute them. And later found them for sale.

Are you saying that we absolutely should NEVER trust ANYONE in SL?

My giving out ONE copy of an item with a verbal notification of the terms - ie, 'don't give it to anyone else ever, ok?' should be thought of as the legally binding contract.

It doesn't mean I'm giving my friends explicit permission to f*ck me over as they see fit.

Kris,

Wow, very very well stated. Thank you.


Yes and don't get me started on how China has no labor rights, has widespread human rights violations, manipulates its currency about 40% on the US$, has aggressive, expansionist foreign policy with Tibet, Nepal, and Taiwan, and holds the succesor-chooser of the entire Buddhist religion hostage in secret and has named their own person in an attempt to control the world's 4th largest religion.

It's still illegal, Eggy, even if China does it. I don't know if you've heard of it, but police in New York City will do large sweeps of knockoff rings, collect hundreds of thousands of knockoff items. Reverse engineering is NOT a legal way to get around copyright. Period. The design itself is intellectual property and that is really at the center of the copyright.

Tell it to the judge Kris
And no, you shouldn't trust random people on the internet.
What can you do with the verbal notification that you cannot do with the transfer flag?
Be stupid and open up the possibility for people to screw you over?
As far as I'm concerned friends come with an expiration date. Some day, somehow, things will go sour, or you will lose track of them, or whatever. What you just stated is proof that you are an emotional person instead of a logical one. This is potentially a dangerous thing
If you had been screwed over as many times as I have, you would have learned to exercise caution. Besides, you dont trust people with your real name, you dont trust people with a picture of you, or the URL to your website, I mean, for crying out loud, you publish a website about yourself that every random stranger can access, but people from SL cant see it just because they are from SL. I dont think you are in a position to criticize my distrust

Eggy,

I like you. But you're a majorly cynical bastard.

And I thought I was bad. *sigh*

In the expanding role of SL into the Metaverse, and the growth of SL business, how is your professional SL identity any different from your own as a small business owner? I assert there is essentially none.


*checks his underside for a buy-before date stamped on*
Life is potentially dangerous. We have rules that are agreed on by a society and enforced by the government that serves us in order to assuage this danger. It doesn't mean that we're being protected from us doing stupid things, but it does mean that we're protected from other people doing stupid things to us against our rights. Including copyright.


I think Kris is in a position. This is not a matter of being careful; it's a matter of clearly stated copyright which is backed by US law and locally enforced by Linden Lab.

It's sad when people take advantage of us, but it doesn't mean we have to take it!

btw - this is a nice, intelligent discussion of copyright and I'm glad we're having it.

I agree with Eggy here. I know of people who have bought or stood next to objects and duplicated them prim for prim despite the original being no mod. Once made this way, it IS indistinguishable from the original if enough care is taken. If one walks away, then returns later and places the two items beside each other - I DARE anyone who cannot see the file creation tags from identifying the original if the copy was done "correctly".

Now, there are literally two issues with this copy. The first, of course, is copyright/idea theft. Sorry mateys... it's damn near impossible to prove - I don't care what the lawyers will tell you about this situation as I described it. To "safeguard" the copy and make it truly difficult for anyone to identify this as a copy.. all the "copier" really needs to do is to make a copy of the copy - then destroy their original (the first copy). Empty the trash and the evidence is gone.

The second issue is that you cannot "prove" that the "counterfeiter" didn't actually just design/make this item from scratch/from his head. And with no records, how would you go about trying? Lawyers make their livings arguing both sides of this.. and the claimants usually lose if the defendants can last financially.

This argument is not popular with creators.. bu it is realistic...

Edited to add: As a matter of fact, I got a kick the other day from hearing someone say that one of my self-made toys looked an awful lot like that of someone who is relatively well-known in SL. What was truly funny is that I didn't even know that this other person made the type of thing I had made...as a toy for myself. I had merely piuttered around in a sandbox, stumbled across a shape I liked, figured out how to use and reproduce it and then incorporated it in something useful design-wise. But I got an IM from the 'offended' party... quite indignant. I didn't even bother to respond other than to offer to tp them to discuss it... There was no response.