To whom it may concern,
In announcing the new teen grid you have broken a promise to your customers. You assured us that no action would be taken on a teen grid until the main grid had stabilized, and it would not effect main grid service. (found here)
We are still plagued with login issues, outages, and asset server problems. We just went through a whole round of people voting that the major feature we would like added to Second Life is to have the bugs fixed.
I don't feel you have kept this promise.
But now that its here, announced in the middle of the night, your main grid customers will have to deal with its detrimental effects. In my opinion these are numerous, too numerous and important to condense into a single thread. Therefore I will only focus on the economy.
Its been stated that the teen grid will use the same currency as the main grid. This is a major mistake. Not only will the additional influx of money to the system increase inflation, the main grid users will not be able to adjust to this influx through higher prices because our products will not be able to be sold where the imbalance is coming from.
In addition, if teen grid money is the same as main grid money there will be a powerful incentive for the children to sell it. This means that there will have to be third party connections with adults in order to trade. This provides the unscrupulous and the pedophilic with access to children, and there will be no way for Linden Lab to monitor these communications and transactions.
In short if you are bound and determined to create this grid please at least make the currency incompatible.
*disclaimer*
I have been completely against the idea of a teen grid since its inception was announced. I admit that this may influence my thoughts as to the severity of the danger posed by this new addition. I have tried to think through the implications rationally and not let my emotional horror bleed through in this letter.
If you have ever explored Second Life, it should be abundantly clear no one under 18 should ever be within 100 meters of a computer running it unsupervised. The program runs the gamut of psychotic sexual fantasies that are a breeding ground for budding pedophiles, psychopaths, and zoophiles.
The teen grid is like a Jeffery Dahlmer honey pot, low hanging fruit ripe for the taking. The nuts will get in there. There will be a tragedy.
Providing any connection to Second Life, even just a name, to a program intended to draw children is negligent at best.
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Teen grid endangers main grid |
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Editorial Hare
Second Life Resident
Join date: 11 Nov 2004
Posts: 116
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04-20-2005 08:46
_____________________
Please see my alternate account disclaimer here
The world tolerates conceit from those who are successful, but not from anybody else. - John Blake |
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Merwan Marker
Booring...
Join date: 28 Jan 2004
Posts: 4,706
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04-20-2005 08:53
Much of what you said was communicated to LL months ago when they asked for community comments.
My comment now is - wow! a part time game - very funny! Part time -wow! - it's bed time teens, lights out, the Grid goes down in 5 minutes.  I'm beginning to conclude that whom ever at LL is designing the teen grid does not have teen aged kids. This is beginning to sound like just another way to get media attention for SL. Meantime, when was the last time the Grid was down? Stable, eh?????  _____________________
Don't Worry, Be Happy - Meher Baba
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Beau Perkins
Second Life Resident.
Join date: 25 Dec 2003
Posts: 1,061
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04-20-2005 08:58
Who are YOU?
Sorry couldnt resist _____________________
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Moopf Murray
Moopfmerising
Join date: 7 Jan 2004
Posts: 2,448
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04-20-2005 09:04
It's just another example of how Linden Lab say something to placate the community and then, when they think enough time has passed, go back on what they said and forge ahead with their plans anyway.
We were told that the teen grid had been put on hold until stability and issues had been mitigated on the main grid. They have not yet the teen grid goes live. Huzzah yet again! |
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Surina Skallagrimson
Queen of Amazon Nations
Join date: 19 Jun 2003
Posts: 941
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04-20-2005 09:13
Its been stated that the teen grid will use the same currency as the main grid. This is a major mistake. Not only will the additional influx of money to the system increase inflation, the main grid users will not be able ....... While the Linden post did say the teen grid would use L$ just like we do, it also makes completly clear that there is no conection in any way between the teen grid and the main grid. Who caresif their money is called 'Lindens'. It could be called anything at all. With no conection to the main grid none of it can pass onto the main grid and so it does not affect us in any way. They also stated that inworld objects would be veted for suitability, this implies that the teen grid isolation also extends to selling on 3rd party web sites such as GOM and IGE and AnsheChung.com as there'd be no way for IGE or Anshe to have legitimate accounts in order to carry out their business, and GOM would not be able to install an ATM. So what is your problem? _____________________
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Surina Skallagrimson Queen of Amazon Nation Rizal Sports Mentor -------------------------------------------------------- Philip Linden: "we are not in the game business." Adam Savage: "I reject your reality and substitue my own." |
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Colette Meiji
Registered User
Join date: 25 Mar 2005
Posts: 15,556
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04-20-2005 09:13
If the teen grid is truley seperate from the main grid , why will the economies be merged?
I have spoken out that i dont think the teen grid si a good diea. But i dont see how it will be linked to the main grid? You certainly wont be able to look up teens profiles/ IM teens/ or Pay them Lindins .. so .. how can they buy/sell Lindins from the main grid? (if im wrong on this point this is a HUGE problem) Since they cant buy any Main grid products, nor sell any products to the main grid.. how can their economy linked other then having the same name on the unit of currency. I think calling it a grid is maybe confusing .. I was on the assumption the teens would be on an entirely different SERVER .. (yes i know server in a MMO means more then one computer) .. that wasnt tied to the Main Server at all. In this case why should the teen grid effect us game play or economically? Does the Test Grid/Server effect the Main server directly? I do have a lot of concerns about what will happen on the teen grid, etc, but thats seperate of the issues the Original Poster brought up. |
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Editorial Hare
Second Life Resident
Join date: 11 Nov 2004
Posts: 116
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04-20-2005 09:21
Initially there will be no object exchange or sales between the two grids. The amount of Linden currency in the teen grid will grow with the population, as it does in the main grid. We will monitor the economy to ensure that the currency in circulation between the two grids doesn't get out of balance. This implies currency will be exchanged between the two systems. It also implies that there may be more of a connection with object sales and exchanges after an INTIAL period. _____________________
Please see my alternate account disclaimer here
The world tolerates conceit from those who are successful, but not from anybody else. - John Blake |
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Beau Perkins
Second Life Resident.
Join date: 25 Dec 2003
Posts: 1,061
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04-20-2005 09:22
From my understanding, the economies are seperate. You can not exchange money from the teen grid to the main grid,, but when someone graduates to the main grid, then the money goes with them.
Correct? _____________________
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David Valentino
Nicely Wicked
Join date: 1 Jan 2004
Posts: 2,941
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04-20-2005 09:23
I wonder if James Miller will somehow make it into the teen sims, be spotted, and after he quickly makes his escape, they will come to worship him as a visiting god from the area known as "The Main Grid".
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David Lamoreaux
Owner - Perilous Pleasures and Extreme Erotica Gallery |
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Talen Morgan
Amused
Join date: 2 Apr 2004
Posts: 3,097
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04-20-2005 09:25
I don;t know how I feel about it really but from Robins post ( quoted below ) it seems they are taking this very slowly. There is no way for the dollars of the teen grid to leave ...at least for the present time so there shouldn't be any economic upheaval due to the teen grid. It also seems that work in general is still going on for our grid. It will be interesting to see how it all works out. Make no mistake though...withought a teen grid or allowing teens to enter SL, Second Life will never grow in numbers that they need to.
Next Steps for the Teen Grid I wanted to let you know we're starting to build the Teen Grid. In planning these next steps, we've taken very seriously the feedback that you've given us over the last several months regarding Teens in Second Life, their safety, and the need for a special, separate place inaccessible to the adults in the main grid. Following is an overview of the plan, and we'll be in-world the next few days to answer questions you may have. Invitation Only Beginning April 20th we'll start to slowly let teens aged 13 to 17 into a special grid, not accessible to the Second Life main grid. The Teen Grid will be available by invitation only, with invitations being made available in groups of 5 to the teens on the grid so they can invite their friends. There will also be some people who come in through the Second Life website, who will be put in a queue and invited by Linden Lab. In addition, some people who had surreptitiously found a way into the main Second Life grid but who had to wait, after all, for their very own space, the Teen Grid, will be invited to join. Liaisons There are two Linden Liaisons who will be joining the Teen Grid immediately under the supervision of Char Linden: Blue Linden and Deana Linden. In addition the teens on the grid will be able to IM the liaisons on the main grid for help in an emergency. Char will also continue to work with the liaisons on the main grid, so she'll still be around! Hours The Teen Grid will be open from noon to 10PM Pacific time for the near future. We will expand the hours as we see how quickly the population grows and as we add the staff to support them. Communication with the Main Grid The Teen Grid is unique from the main Second Life grid; a separate place with its own groups, events, and places. Communication with the main grid will not be allowed. We'll be auditing the two grids to make sure that there are no IMs or objects transmitted between the two grids. This is for the safety of the teens, to make sure that they are not subjected to any inappropriate or offensive content or contact. Content Uploads Teens will only be allowed to upload textures that are appropriate for a "PG" area. We will be monitoring uploads to make sure that there is no inappropriate or offensive content uploaded into teen accounts or transferred to other teens on the grid. Land and Economy Teens will be able to purchase land on the Teen Grid for Linden currency. Their accounts will have limits so if they purchase land requiring a tier increase we will send a notice to the person who holds the credit card on the account to make sure they agree to the monthly payments. Initially there will be no object exchange or sales between the two grids. The amount of Linden currency in the teen grid will grow with the population, as it does in the main grid. We will monitor the economy to ensure that the currency in circulation between the two grids doesn't get out of balance. Adults Other than Linden staff, the only adults allowed access to the Teen Grid will be vetted by Linden Lab. We anticipate that teachers or parents may want to enter the Teen Grid for short periods of time for special events or classes. These adults will be pre-screened and while in the Grid will be part of a group that identifies them as an approved adult. If a teen believes they have met someone who is an adult who hasn't been approved they will be able to notify a Linden immediately. __________________ _____________________
Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...set a man on fire and he'll be warm the rest of his life
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Cyanide Leviathan
Xtreme Loser Squad
Join date: 12 Jun 2003
Posts: 408
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04-20-2005 09:28
The teen grid is like a Jeffery Dahlmer honey pot, low hanging fruit ripe for the taking. The nuts will get in there. There will be a tragedy. Jeff wasn't a pedofile, he just ate people. |
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Editorial Hare
Second Life Resident
Join date: 11 Nov 2004
Posts: 116
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04-20-2005 09:32
Jeff wasn't a pedofile, he just ate people. Yeah, its funny now, just wait till the first family sues LL after their kid was invited over to a main grid players house for lunch, with fava beans and a nice chianti. Where do all your creations go when LL is sued out of existence? _____________________
Please see my alternate account disclaimer here
The world tolerates conceit from those who are successful, but not from anybody else. - John Blake |
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Lecktor Hannibal
YOUR MOM
Join date: 1 Jul 2004
Posts: 6,734
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04-20-2005 09:34
Yeah, its funny now, just wait till the first family sues LL after their kid was invited over to a main grid players house for lunch, with fava beans and a nice chianti. Where do all your creations go when LL is sued out of existence? I resent this post. Wait a minute now, hmmmmmmm juvenile liver  _____________________
YOUR MOM says, 'Come visit us at SC MKII http://secondcitizen.net '
Oh, Lecktor, you're terrible. Bikers have more fun than people ! |
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Merwan Marker
Booring...
Join date: 28 Jan 2004
Posts: 4,706
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New Teen Grid Business Ops! One Of Many!
04-20-2005 09:35
Wait, wait - I got an inspiration!
 OK - Jamie, Anshe, IGE you reading this - and any other business people? I offer a currency exchange for Teen Grid bucks, for L$ bucks - I make it very attractive for the Teen Buck ratio - say 1 Teen buck buys you $1.5 L$, and then I make the Teen Buck customers my marketing-sell-buy agents inside the Teen Grid, bringing Teen players to my WebPage Teener Exchange. Why would i do this - offer "loss-leader" exchange rates, ah, cuase those pesky teens will turn 18 one day and they can convert their Teen bucks to L$ and I've got a customer for life.  _____________________
Don't Worry, Be Happy - Meher Baba
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Merwan Marker
Booring...
Join date: 28 Jan 2004
Posts: 4,706
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04-20-2005 09:36
Jeff wasn't a pedofile, he just ate people. Whew! That's good to know!  _____________________
Don't Worry, Be Happy - Meher Baba
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Talen Morgan
Amused
Join date: 2 Apr 2004
Posts: 3,097
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04-20-2005 09:37
Yeah, its funny now, just wait till the first family sues LL after their kid was invited over to a main grid players house for lunch, with fava beans and a nice chianti. Where do all your creations go when LL is sued out of existence? ummm whats stopping the very same things from happening on the main grid? When has everquest been sued? ...the teen population there is huge. A million things could go wrong...doesn't necessarily mean they will. _____________________
Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...set a man on fire and he'll be warm the rest of his life
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Merwan Marker
Booring...
Join date: 28 Jan 2004
Posts: 4,706
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04-20-2005 09:37
I wonder if James Miller will somehow make it into the teen sims, be spotted, and after he quickly makes his escape, they will come to worship him as a visiting god from the area known as "The Main Grid". Yepper! _____________________
Don't Worry, Be Happy - Meher Baba
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Reitsuki Kojima
Witchhunter
Join date: 27 Jan 2004
Posts: 5,328
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04-20-2005 09:41
Yeah, its funny now, just wait till the first family sues LL after their kid was invited over to a main grid players house for lunch, with fava beans and a nice chianti. Where do all your creations go when LL is sued out of existence? Yeah, I'm waiting. Not holding my breath, though. _____________________
I am myself indifferent honest; but yet I could accuse me of such things that it were better my mother had not borne me: I am very proud, revengeful, ambitious, with more offenses at my beck than I have thoughts to put them in, imagination to give them shape, or time to act them in. What should such fellows as I do crawling between earth and heaven? We are arrant knaves, all; believe none of us.
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Colette Meiji
Registered User
Join date: 25 Mar 2005
Posts: 15,556
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04-20-2005 09:42
Yeah, its funny now, just wait till the first family sues LL after their kid was invited over to a main grid players house for lunch, with fava beans and a nice chianti. Where do all your creations go when LL is sued out of existence? Dont think anyone was laughing about potential predators .. so the use of the word funny seems out of place. Your post was an Alarm that somehow the teen grid would increase technical problems .. ie assuming increased traffic. It further was concerned about the economies being merged and the ability of teens to buy and sell main grid currency. All the social and serious child protection rammifactions outside of these were in your disclaimer ... ie by disclaimer not part of the point of the post. Yes theres serious potential problems of a teen grid .. it seems LL is concerened with these also by the pasted text earlier in this forum. But thats a seperate debate .. in fact the most recent thread debating it is here: /120/41/40559/1.html |
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Editorial Hare
Second Life Resident
Join date: 11 Nov 2004
Posts: 116
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04-20-2005 09:44
ummm whats stopping the very same things from happening on the main grid? When has everquest been sued? ...the teen population there is huge. A million things could go wrong...doesn't necessarily mean they will. 2 reasons: 1. At the moment LL could be considered somewhat protected as their TOS states you have to be an adult to use the software. Kids shouldn't be here. They just threw that out the window. 2. SL caters to sex and other adult content, unlike other major games. To make a kid version is like Joe Camel selling children candy flavored light cigarettes. Actually there probably a whole host more reasons than those two, but I'm not a lawyer, and I think those cover it. _____________________
Please see my alternate account disclaimer here
The world tolerates conceit from those who are successful, but not from anybody else. - John Blake |
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pandastrong Fairplay
all bout the BANG POW NOW
Join date: 16 Aug 2004
Posts: 2,920
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04-20-2005 09:46
2 reasons: Actually there probably a whole host more reasons than those two, but I'm not a lawyer, and I think those cover it. Everyone on the Internet is a lawyer! DUH _____________________
"Honestly, you are a gem -- fun, creative, and possessing strong social convictions. I think LL should be paying you to be in their game."
~ Ulrika Zugzwang on the iconography of pandastrong in the media "That's no good. Someone is going to take your place as SL's cutest boy while you're offline." ~ Ingrid Ingersoll on the topic of LL refusing to pay pandastrong for being in their game. |
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Editorial Hare
Second Life Resident
Join date: 11 Nov 2004
Posts: 116
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04-20-2005 09:57
It further was concerned about the economies being merged and the ability of teens to buy and sell main grid currency. All the social and serious child protection rammifactions outside of these were in your disclaimer ... ie by disclaimer not part of the point of the post. You are correct, the morality of the situation is for another debate, and a different thread. The economic impact of those moral choices however is not. If Linden Lab is litigated out of business it will have a tremendous impact on SL economy, as it won't exist anymore. If you have been paying for land tiers since they came into existence and creating content for even longer the prospect of Linden Lab deliberately deciding to put the company in what I would consider legal jeopardy is alarming. _____________________
Please see my alternate account disclaimer here
The world tolerates conceit from those who are successful, but not from anybody else. - John Blake |
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Talen Morgan
Amused
Join date: 2 Apr 2004
Posts: 3,097
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04-20-2005 10:50
2 reasons: 1. At the moment LL could be considered somewhat protected as their TOS states you have to be an adult to use the software. Kids shouldn't be here. They just threw that out the window. 2. SL caters to sex and other adult content, unlike other major games. To make a kid version is like Joe Camel selling children candy flavored light cigarettes. Actually there probably a whole host more reasons than those two, but I'm not a lawyer, and I think those cover it. There were reports of 13 year old prostitutes in TSO and other nefarious activity....this isn't a first...at best its a third or fourth. There is the possibility of litigation in every endeavor an online game makes. It still doesn't mean it will happen. _____________________
Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...set a man on fire and he'll be warm the rest of his life
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Alexa Hope
Registered User
Join date: 8 Dec 2004
Posts: 670
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04-20-2005 10:52
I disagree with a teen grid whilst the main grid has no many bugs to be fixed. But if it's going to be then so be it. However, as you are opening the teen grid for only a short number of hours per day, it will be totally impossible for teens other than those in the US to play the game. If that is your decision, to totally ignore the rest of the world, I think you are being extremely short sighted.
Alexa |
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Lance Hedges
Brian Peppers!!
Join date: 23 May 2004
Posts: 151
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04-20-2005 17:58
Jesus Christ.
Your not playing on the teen grid. Yes SL is buggy, blah, blah, blahydy, blah , blah. Want to do something? Go work for LL yourself and fix every problem that zings your way ^_^ _____________________
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