proselytizing: f#@k PETA

I have an awesome web-based RPG!!!! Go to google, and do an image search for "vivisection". Then you can Role Play as a human being with compassion!!!!

Your body is also capable of breaking down an amazing array of toxins and pathogens. That's not necessarily a good argument for ingesting things.

I've had bacon... and hamburger... and steak... and whale blubber (once - it had all the flavor and texture of a piece of tire, if anybody is curious). But I can't quite digest the modern trend of dismissing a point of view out of hand just because it's inconvenient. It leaves a bad taste in my mouth, even if I'm the one being inconvenienced.

Wow.. absolutely incredible post Arcadia. Thank you

Just so there is no confusion on the subject.

I know where food comes from. I make no excuses for eating animals.

I don't dismiss this point of view "out of hand". I do it deliberately because I do not agree with it. I enjoy eating animals and will continue to do so. I've killed my own animals. I've cleaned and cooked my own animals.

I know where food comes from.

Ah the meat-eating issue....

did we all forget that a great portion of the world is vegetarian? Just get outside of Europe/NA -- take India for example. Or Tibet and large portions of mainland China. Lots of muslims and middle-eastener cultures are vegetarian too.

Though I eat meat and believe that a lot of humans are omnivorous. But I don't think the entire population is -- if an asian man can live on brown rice and green tea as a monk and still get stronger than I am; it says something. If an entire culture looks down on eating meat and they all live long healthy lives; that says to me that not everyone has to eat meat.

Vegetarianism doesn't require supplements to survive actually. Veganism does because the practice of vegans is to eat only plants exclusively... negating most simple proteins, amino acids, and vitamins necessary for our existence. At most, if you are a vegetarian though; you might need to take vitamin B12 supplements once in a while... and that's only because B12 is only found in meat which has become a major part of the European-decent diet.

It does make me still wonder where humans started eating meat. I'm thinking it was to survive the ice-age... not a whole heck of a lot of plants there, but a portion of humanity did manage to survive

oh and as for factory farming...

yeah that's feckin gross. I'm sooo up for an alternative.

like the organic butcher shop that's opening up down the street from me.

now THAT is a good idea!

But if I could hunt my own efficiently enough (ie: the human population isn't as nearly as dense as it is now and I could live in a big open territory), then I would.

I don't think it's unjust to kill an animal for your consumption; just unjust that we herd them into factories and make their existence meaningless.

Some of the best meat I've eaten was in India. Mmmm...lamb. They're just not big on eating cows.

In a lot of places a vegetarian diet is due in part to availability.

I agree that factories are bad, but from a quality of food point of view.

ATTENTION EVERYONE

Okay. I feared this happening, heh.

I didn't post this as a vegetarian/meat-eater, PETA/NRA debate. I posted it simply for one very clear reason.

I've absolutely nothing against animal rights, saving animals, helping to make sure animals as livestock are treated with dignity (har, animal dignity) and gentleness, etc. what I DO have a problem with is an organization CLAIMING to do these things but instead supporting psychos who firebomb colleges and threaten/harass doctors working on cures for deadly diseases.

if you look at a breakdown of PETA's income tax reports for the past several years, as I have, you'll see that nearly 3/4 of their budget has been spent not on saving animals at all, but on advertising about how feeding meat to a child is tantamount to child abuse (something that I, growing up in a household with two parents who were on cocaine and heroin for the first fourteen years of my life, take personal offense at) and the legal aid of convicted domestic terrorists. furthermore, what parts of their budget HAVE actually been spent on animals is mostly devoted to EUTHANIZING the animals they receive but can't afford to care for because they've spent all of their tax-free donations on violent criminals.

THAT is what this is about. if you don't like meat, don't want to eat meat, fine. I've slept with many vegetarians.

but I won't allow my tax dollars to go to those who are lying to the public about who they are and what they do. this isn't about diet, this is about PETA.

and quit posting until the first line in your post is "I signed the petition. Now...." !!!

Even though this subject hits me on a personal level, I find that this forum is representative of accepted social bigotry on larger levels. It usually comes in the forum of humor and ridicule that is more cutting than actually funny. There are plenty of subsets including multiple Asian popluations, homosexuals, the impoverished, etc. that still have to deal with this on a daily basis. Other disenfranchised populations such as women and african americans have managed a paradigm change that at the very least keeps bigotry relegated to private dinner parties and cagey whispers.

It's very easy to google up a joke that hits up on some subset of society. Don't get me wrong, I looooove politically incorrect humor. But before this thread becomes a "my vegetarian joke is funnier than your vegetarian joke", I implore you to tune up your sense of humor to a minimum of 8, and don't accidentally swap out the targets from vegetarians to "blacks", "gays", or "the guy at 7-11".

Oh, I agree fully, but they refuse to shut down the White House.

"Domestic Terrorist" is a loaded term used to describe vandals with whom the speaker has an ideological bone to pick. While I don't condone vandalism, I also don't equate destruction of property with any sort of "terrorism".

As far as I know, PETA recieves no tax dollars. They get the same tax break as any other non-profit, many of which support and encourage criminal tactics (anti-abortion groups being a prime example). Yank exemption from one, then yank it from all. While we're at it, let's tax churches and end corporate welfare. With that windfall, even a not-too-bright cowboy might be able to make a dent in the deficit.

Lovely weather today, isn't it?

Regardless of your reason for posting this, it is very naive to think that the conversation won't go there. If you have a problem with an organization, more power to you. People that agree with the mission statement of the organization though will gladly argue the fundamental reasons for why the organizition exists against sweeping myopic minutia of how it is run.

And good luck with that whole not allowing tax dollars thingie.

There's a difference on a fundemental level between vandalism and firebombing a research facility at a university. the term "domestic terrorist" is not being used, in this sense, as a loaded term. look up the FBI's terrorist watchlist. you'll find the groups ALF, animal liberation front, and ELF, earth liberation front--both groups that PETA has donated substantial amounts of money to--as well as Rodney Coronado, PETA's posterchild for how to get people scared into vegetarianism. it's not my term, it's the FBI's.




I'm ALL for that. I don't think any special interest organizations need to be collecting free money. You believe in a cause, you want to support it, great. It's called having a hobby and asking for loans.

that's just a slightly rude statement, don't you think?

eek.. that did sound a bit rude in retrospect. I didn't mean that as a direct comment about you. Just in general about posts like this that swerve a bit off topic. Just trying to qualify why. Sorry bout that

no worries.

though, this IS the off-topic thread.

but I'll agree, I wanted this to stay specifically on the subject of the petition. WHICH YOU ALL SIGNED, correct? ;D

The FBI is not above using loaded terms to advance an agenda. When I was growing up, it was "communist". An accusation of "communism" was sufficient to justify all sorts of mischief, such as infiltrating the civil rights movement.

The word is different, but the spirit is the same - people are being investigated and detained for "terrorism", when their actions are clearly not terrorism in any objective sense.

Don't get me wrong - if somebody is guilty of arson, theft or vandalism, they need to face the consequences of their actions... most especially if those actions threaten the lives of people. Even within the PETA worldview, it has to be recognized that people are animals too.

But the site you point to is just an industry shill group thinly disguised as "grassroots", and they'll fight anything that might impact their profit margin. Behind their rhetoric, their primary concern is that people might eat less meat. In short, they're afraid that all that money pumped into advertising against meat might have an impact. It's not PETA's tactics that they find problematic, despite the protestations, it's the group's effectiveness.

If an industry lobby group told me the sky was blue, I'd pack an umbrella. If they wanted me to sign ANYTHING, well...

granted, but these people have been accused of being "terrorists" since before the 9/11 freak-out. these aren't new allegations about these people. I think Rodney Coronado was convicted in 1994, but I don't remember exactly.



and ofcourse, I'm fully aware that the group has a rather, well, slanted bias, but they aren't thinly veiled in the least. on every single page they say they're a group of restaurant owners, etc, people being affected by PETA. they aren't acting like they're someone else at all.

but bias or not, what the hell's wrong with having one? doesn't PETA have a bias? regardless of who founded this group, they have an opinion I share, and they post a lot of information in one central place, however they easily link back to their sources. so you may not LIKE that it's an industry group, but that doesn't change that they have also been effective information snatchers.

It won't be me flaming you Ursa as I agree. Though I am an omnivore, I believe that the manner in which we care for the animals that we eat and our environment is crucial. I understand killing the chicken, fish, cow or deer for food. However these multi-conglomerate farming operations that have bought out all the smaller farmers and the way that they treat the animals AND THE ENVIRONMENT is abhorent.

Not only do they treat animals cruely but they have ruined the taste of our food. If you don't believe me - grow your own garden then go buy the same vegetable in the store and compare the taste. The same thing applies to raising fowl and lifestock.

The few corporations that virtually own the farming industry in America care nothing for us, our environment or the animals that they raise. Their only focus is profit. Profit alone is not a bad thing unless it comes at the expense of our health, our environment and our integrity.

While I find some of PETA's tactics extreme and at times actually harmful to the animals that they are trying to protect - I believe that their heart is in the right place.

Someone does have to watch these large corporations.

1. If god didn't want us to eat animals, he wouldn't have made em outta meat.

2. Threatening to 'confront' people who work at companies that ALF doesn't agree with at their homes, or 'places they frequent' IS terrorism. Specially when said confrontation results is a severe beating or being maced/pepper sprayed in the eyes.

3. I signed the petition.

I don't. I don't think they are as concerned with protecting animals as they are with making sure everybody does what they say.

PETA's efforts aren't to "watch" large corporations. their efforts are, and always have been, detrimental to the companies they want to "work with" to ensure "humane treatment" of animals.

that's why they and their members buy stock in farming, livestock, meat, restaurant companies and so forth. they buy enough stock in a particular company, say, KFC, to be qualified for the board, then they attempt to introduce measures limiting the company's abilities to actually sell the product they produce. this is a well documented tactic of theirs that is a deliberate attempt to bankrupt the companies they're "working with."

THAT isn't fair. if you don't like the taste of mass conglomerate-created food, then by all means I won't be making you swallow. but the point is that it should be my decision to eat crap tasting, high fat, swill-smelling food if I want to. PETA is insane and wants to take that away, and once you aren't allowed to order a supersized #3 with cheese at mcdonalds, WHAT'S NEXT??!

thank you devlin.

Bravo! These corporations are abhorrent.

http://www.democracysouth.org/nc/HogMoney/nchogindustryhistory.htm

My roomie told me all the hog farms in NC are now owned by corporations, he also claims that 3 companies own most of the hog farms in the US. I am not sure that this is 100% true, however I do know that this is bad for the environment and therefore bad for us, other animals and the environment.

And yes, I did sign the petition. I am against extremism. However there ARE some REAL problems within the farming industry and frankly it makes me shudder.

Oh, but the spin, that wild crazy spin, it makes me dizzy just to watch! I trust nobody who has both hands on his wallet and an eye on my purse. The hyperbole of the true believer is so much easier to navigate than the funhouse maze of distorting mirrors constructed by a lobbyist. Here in the Beltway, oil princes wear the masks of concerned conservationists, nuke makers drape themselves in olive branches, and everybody has a flag for a cape.

If non-profits are to answer for their crimes, the ones purchasing a time share in Congress should go to the head of the line.

snark.

okay.

I concede.

if I had MY way, I'd take over a large percentage of the government without asking permission and change rules around. OBVIOUSLY, there's a lot of fucked-uppedness going on with the interconnectedness of things, but I can't run around policing everybody.

if I sit and think sometimes, just sit and think about the world and the lying going on, it makes me really sad.

so while I can't change everything, I can at least do what I can against groups I can get to. maybe after I've taken PETA down I can work on congress. ;D