PG vs Mature in regards to art

OOOH a wheel barrel position...LMAO

It would be interesting to find out how many of the people who report things to the lindens are themselves offended by them, and how many are getting offended "on behalf of others", sort of being offended-by-proxy; report it because someone else *might* be offended.

Some people are offended by homosexuality. (I am not offended by it.) Some people are offended by "pimps and ho's" rubbish in people's profiles. Some people are offended by the language on these forums. Perhaps that should all be removed too if we're to be so conservative and not offend anyone.

By the way, what are inworld profiles and forum posts suppose to be rated anyway?

This is a game intended for age 18+ residents. We're allowed areas for PG and mature content, but the PG areas are held to G standards I think.

It also depends which Linden happens to see the content too. I don't think each of them even follows the same guidelines. I would hope they get together sometime in the future and agree on a standard.

Both points honest truthful and upfront and I agree with each one...except unfortunately I doubt the lean to conservative thumping will ever go away.

Yes, it's completely subjective. In lieu of no system at all, or a system where every shade of potentially offensive content is given its own sim, the Lindens decided on the "highly restricted" vs. "almost unrestricted" system and they play the numbers game to keep the most people happy. I would agree "PG" and "MATURE" are bad names for the system, but I don't think renaming them would satisfy the people complaining here.

And yes, Lindens only take action when they SEE a violation. They keep their eyes peeled for bad stuff, but unless someone files a complaint, it IS possible that their other duties will prevent perfectly even distribution of enforcement.

I'm offended by breasts on female avatars and "packages" on males. For that matter, I kinda have a problem with heads and arms too. Couldn't we just make avatars cubes to protect my sensibilities? Oh wait, I forgot, I'm offended by cubes also as they are so square... duodecagons maybe?

If enough people felt the same way as you do, then yes, Malachi, absolutely. But your hypothetical sensibility is rare if not non-existent. So the Lindens are going draw the line closer to what is generally accepted in a "content restricted" sim, even if that means losing a few extremists like the one you depict.

Hmmpf Duodecagons offend me...snubs nose appropriately..

The standard for PG areas is pretty much in line with what you'd expect to see in a PG-rated movie. It's not really comparable to what you'd expect to see walking downtown or browsing a bookstore.

From the community standards:


Any guideline or law applies to a particular area of influence or jurisdiction. This is the one for SL.

Let's gently consider the following quote for a second:


"The needs of the many outweight the needs of the few, or the one." - Spock

Torley you know better this is SL its all about ME! dammit so lets talk about ME! ME! ME!...lmao

None of this thread relates to Shadow. I think it needs to be moved to OFF-TOPIC, and we continue a new thread about Shadow and wheelbarrows.

Well Shadow, you're an elder and venerable, so according to the neoConfucian analects of SL, that does give you certain privileges.

LoL.... so its all about the Shadow now, huh?

Ah but is Shadow inscrutable? You must be both venerable and inscrutable, and know the eleven secret herbs and spices.

LMAO you know what I meant on that .....some very good premises are pressented but that mentality is what creates the problems or conflicts within SL. ( The me one that is)

In all honest as mentioned earlier this entire thread is about PG and Mature naming and following of the rules the problem is none of those are clearly defined thus as an example of the few joking posts within this forum gives prime examples of varying maturity levels.

We have discussed the aspects of RL and the premise of how closed minded on the human body most Americans are yet we have 10+ million Porn Sites on the web orginating from the US. Rather Ironic I would say.

The whole thing here is this Parental Guidance is a term that is loosly interpreted to condem both art and porn and that alone is wrong in its interpretation.

The CS that was quoted and so eloquently pointed out is like any rule or law a catch all for when people dont know what to do.

I think that is the question here why cant a decision be made why cant a rule be set steadfast and permanent as guideline to follow.

The answer is simply many people are affraid to make rules considering the massive diversity of Second Life. No matter what Law is made its going to infringe upon someone elses rights.

It was mentioned in another Post that people will eventually migrate to Like minded environments. By having the current restrictions on sims they are trying to force that migration through enforcing standards. Yet in another thread people are requesting Zoning as a method of curtailing different public practices. Again attempting to force the masses to congregate with like minded individuals.

This is where in many posts I have stated I am against government in the aspect of how it will affect other memebers of SL but this forced "Migration" or forced "Control" in effect is having the same effect as a government would.

For Stormy I think her works are Art and not pornigraphic but at the same time I neither have the right to judge it or make a decision that it should be gone. However I can feel that it is ludicris that individuals should find it offensive with more offensive content is found in their day to day lives by simply watching the News.

I digress

Shadow

Well regarding this, the CS makes no distinction between art and pornography, and makes no attempt to sort nudity and sexual content into offensive and inoffensive categories. It simply bans all depictions of nudity in PG areas.

Ah Scruples a terminoligy I have not heard as of late. To be honest that depends on the morality of my partner as to whether or not I invoke the use of the aforementioned herbs n spices..

Shadow,

PS oh yeah and Gingsing Pills are not the same thing as Gingsing Root in a bottle just remember that.

I'd explain further but I'm trying to attain the vaunted status of numinous inscrutable enigma.

Ah but this goes back to a simple statement of what is their definition of Nudity?

isnt Nudity construde as a Imagery of Real Life subjects Ie Real Life Porn/Art from the web?

Can an Avatar even be classified as Anime for that matter or even one better can a facimile of prims combined together in a sculptural form actually be construde as Nudity as per its definition?

These are questions that need to be answered before a true guideline can be established.

Why because what person A interprets as Nudity may only be Real Life Flesh related Pictographs. Where as Person B may interprete Nudity as being any facimile of the human body to include cartoon graphics and associated prims created via SL. So in those definitions who is right and who is wrong?

Shadow

Well, I would consider a statue with nipples as being nudity. So with that said perhaps the guidelines need to be revisited by the powers that be.

Why so? Well for starters, take a look at the popular places list ingame. There's one listed that has a picture of a blonde woman licking the end of her dildo. Another has a woman looking like she riding a poll in hell with her legs spread further apart than any average woman can do.

Now, if this is allowed in what is suppose to be PG rated material, my marble statues of a nude chest need not to be returned. It's not simply a matter of the standards being too strict alone. It's also a matter of "can you honestly tell me this marble statue is more corruptive than this blonde hooker licking her dildo??"

And to be just plain petty, it's not fair! I am trying to be artistic and having to censor my sculptures, yet people are allowed to plaster this crap everywhere? I personally am offended by having the whole sluts and pimps lifestyle every way you look in SL, yet I have to feel unjustly censored with my art. The guidelines are out of date for the direction SL has taken.

I figured Id better get facts to back what I was saying up..



So with that said um...since when does Prims wear "Clothing" Plus you put a texture on them and shiney..

in context of the definition of the statment the rules are misapplied across the board actually..

Shadow

Even worse Stormy, what if you created a prim-based statue that represented another specific avatar's identity; say "Joan Q Avatar in marble; a study", and they objected, on the grounds that you violated their sense of "self". Should this be removed? Presumably this would not be tolerated even in a mature sim, because it universally takes away from another member's fun.

I think that SL has enormous untapped potential for being an art medium, particularly with regards to its social aspects. This potential will never be realized however, if art must be kept within the confines of "what isn't offensive to another"

And it's probably a copyrighted photo, as well.

I reported the photo for both, and mentioned it to a Liason... like 4 days ago. The Liason said that they had received a number of abuse reports.

It's not always just a matter of offense so much as it is a matter of having to explain why something happens to be on your screeen at a given moment if someone just so happened to walk in and see it. This was an actual case I had to deal with in my own good humored way recently. I'm far from a prude, as some will certainly attest, but while working in a PG sim, I needed to turn on Highlight Transparent to adjust something and suddenly I noticed a big red, transparent glowing dong coming into view on my camera.

Apparently, there's now a whole line of 'invisible'.. um.. canine-shaped dongs that.. certain groups of people enjoy wearing that can be rendered visible via a command. However, for those of us who are unfortunate enough to see transparent objects while editing, you get to see a whole forest of dongs in a PG sim. Since someone who certainly shouldn't have even remotely seen that on my screen almost did, I decided to speak about this to a Linden, who in turn, came in, took a look at it and shrugged with the comment via IM of 'It's invisible, so I'm not going to do anything and you can AR it if you wish'. I decided at that point that an AR would result in the same exact thing, so I shrugged and simply turned it later into a sporting event.

Anyway, more back on-topic.. Someone mentioned HR Giger's artwork as an example and well, I know for a fact a lot of it used to simply not be sold to anyone under 18, an issue I enountered long ago when I first started collecting his books. I'm amazed Julie Bell and Boris were in a PG sim, honestly. I'm fairly sure though that it'd pass the litmus test of 'Can I explain it away quickly if someone was to see it on my screen?', which is usually why I'm in a PG sim during times where that's a possibility.