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German Content Bids

Ben Linden
Igluchanchalowan
Join date: 31 Dec 1969
Posts: 137
08-18-2005 15:35
From: Schwanson Schlegel
Will there be pretzels and bier?


That is up to you. I suppose you could enter pretzels and beer as a bid...
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Jayjay Shaftoe
Registered User
Join date: 16 Jun 2005
Posts: 3
obnoxious?
08-19-2005 09:05
Pretzel, Bier, German Castles? 3rd Reich references? Scheisse movies? (actually thats a good one, quoting South Park is always cool)
get a friggin life!
I am disappointed that i dont have the time to submit something myself, so i´ll just indulge myself in THE favourite German Pastime: nagging and complaining...

German Castles and scenic rivers make approx. 0.0001 % of the german landscape, so its hardly representative.. where d´you get your images from? Disneyworld?
and i gotta agree somehow with ulrika:
<flame on>
why do you yankees always have to rant on WWII? because it was the last successful decent piece of US foreign policy? why not make a Iraq themed Sim with abu ghreib and guantanamo?
<flame off>
k, now to something more constructive:

hows about building something more recent and positive?
Hamburg Reeperbahn (St. Pauli), for Escort services and Dance clubs
Düsseldorf Altstadt (Pubs, Clubs, Watering holes)
Berlin KadeWe, shopping, Reichstag etc.
Frankfurt (Paulskirche for politics, Banking area for money laundering etc..)
München, (yes even Oktoberfest, Art Museums, Lakesides and so on)

hundreds of other possibilites that dont feed stereotypes good enough for people with IQ´s not above room temperature (and i´m talking Celsius, not Fahrenheit)

gladly willing to consult, just dont have time nor abilities to build myself...

jayjay
Aimee Weber
The one on the right
Join date: 30 Jan 2004
Posts: 4,286
08-19-2005 09:24
Dude!

I'm gonna submit a build with like... all these cartoon girls showing their panties, and hentai, and tentacle sex, and WWII kamikaze pilots, and like none of the voices will match up to the mouth movements, and ninjas! everywhere ninjas! and...

Oh wait, this isn't the Japanese welcome area? Nevermind.
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Ben Linden
Igluchanchalowan
Join date: 31 Dec 1969
Posts: 137
08-19-2005 13:55
From: Jauani Wu
i have a few questions:

1> does this pay in USD or L$?

2> as precedent, how much was paid for the ahern WA and other LL commissioned builds?

3> will ulrika be allowed to just submit n-burger as her entry?



1) You can submit a bid in either - in fact you can submit a bid in Rouladen, Sauerbraten or Schniztel too.

2) How much do you think you should be paid for a project of that magnitude? In the past, we have paid a wiiiiiiiiiide range.

3)Neualtenburg could be submitted, but would likely not win the project in it's current state, as it does not fulfil the design requirements. I look forward to seeing submitions from the residents of that city though.

4) If someone was willing to use this project to further explore thinking regarding alternitives to technocratic architecture in creating civic spaces, that would be totally awesome.

ben
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Ben Linden
Igluchanchalowan
Join date: 31 Dec 1969
Posts: 137
08-19-2005 13:58
From: Aimee Weber
Dude!

I'm gonna submit a build with like... all these cartoon girls showing their panties, and hentai, and tentacle sex, and WWII kamikaze pilots, and like none of the voices will match up to the mouth movements, and ninjas! everywhere ninjas! and...

Oh wait, this isn't the Japanese welcome area? Nevermind.



I would advise you to bid low. ;)
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Jellin Pico
Grumpy Oldbie
Join date: 3 Aug 2003
Posts: 1,037
08-19-2005 15:51
From: Jayjay Shaftoe
Pretzel, Bier, German Castles? 3rd Reich references? Scheisse movies? (actually thats a good one, quoting South Park is always cool)
get a friggin life!
I am disappointed that i dont have the time to submit something myself, so i´ll just indulge myself in THE favourite German Pastime: nagging and complaining...

German Castles and scenic rivers make approx. 0.0001 % of the german landscape, so its hardly representative.. where d´you get your images from? Disneyworld?
and i gotta agree somehow with ulrika:
<flame on>
why do you yankees always have to rant on WWII? because it was the last successful decent piece of US foreign policy? why not make a Iraq themed Sim with abu ghreib and guantanamo?
<flame off>
k, now to something more constructive:

hows about building something more recent and positive?
Hamburg Reeperbahn (St. Pauli), for Escort services and Dance clubs
Düsseldorf Altstadt (Pubs, Clubs, Watering holes)
Berlin KadeWe, shopping, Reichstag etc.
Frankfurt (Paulskirche for politics, Banking area for money laundering etc..)
München, (yes even Oktoberfest, Art Museums, Lakesides and so on)

hundreds of other possibilites that dont feed stereotypes good enough for people with IQ´s not above room temperature (and i´m talking Celsius, not Fahrenheit)

gladly willing to consult, just dont have time nor abilities to build myself...

jayjay


Is Lederhosen ok?
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From: Trinity Serpentine
Jellin, you are soooooo FIC! Fabulous, Intelligent and Cute
Jamie Bergman
SL's Largest Distributor
Join date: 17 Feb 2005
Posts: 1,752
08-20-2005 11:11
From: Ulrika Zugzwang
It's the same thing as with the U.S. -- focus on the positive things (space travel and freedom) and ignore the Native American genocide, don't mention the problem with the overs (overconsumption, overeating, overbudget, overspent, overworked), and please don't bring up the global spread of the corporate-sponsored monoculture.

~Ulrika~


I'm totally down with corporate-sponsored monoculture. It makes things easier :-D
Jamie Bergman
SL's Largest Distributor
Join date: 17 Feb 2005
Posts: 1,752
08-20-2005 11:12
From: Malachi Petunia
Really! When The Fall of Western Civiilization is written, Alf will likely be the Franz Ferdinand of the story.


Hell no. Thats a position only Oprah could fill.
Jamie Bergman
SL's Largest Distributor
Join date: 17 Feb 2005
Posts: 1,752
08-20-2005 11:16
From: Jayjay Shaftoe
why do you yankees always have to rant on WWII? because it was the last successful decent piece of US foreign policy?


BullShizot!! The invasion of Panama in 1989 was quite successful, thank you very much.
Jayjay Shaftoe
Registered User
Join date: 16 Jun 2005
Posts: 3
08-21-2005 16:07
From: Jamie Bergman
BullShizot!! The invasion of Panama in 1989 was quite successful, thank you very much.


k, if you call invading a foreign country, kicking out the dictator you installed there yourself, and along the way killing between 20 and 300 civilians a decent foreign policy, it was succesfull...

anyway, thanks for taking the flamebait...
Thorval Ayoob
Space Cadet
Join date: 18 Jan 2005
Posts: 39
OK, let's get back to the topic.
08-23-2005 10:17
From: Ben Linden
So now that we have made it through that delighful detour - anyone have any questions?

OK Ben, maybe I can bring some sense to this topic! As tough as it may be....

1. Will the user interface be localised?

2. Have LL made an attempt on setting up a glossary with official terminology for translated content?

I have two points to make, one is from a localisation professional's point of view, the other from a cultural one.

A. As a professional working in the IT/SW localisation industry for the past 14 years, I have seen many translation projects going D.O.A. - that is, some essential questions had not been asked, or answered. The result was usually terrible from a language point of view - with proper planning, though, much of the chaos can be easlily avoided.

One question is for the provision of accepted, consistent terminology - say, how to translate "avatar" or "teleport" or "to attach". This MUST be decided up front, otherwise any translated content will end up inconsistent and confuse the very users you want to cater for. There are many more issues in this area, but this one is the most pressing at this point in time. Please get back to me if you like more details.

B. Culturally, you want to attract German-speaking customers to Second Life. Obviously, using the American (or who-ever else's) image of what is German (Lederhosen, Brezeln, Black Forest... and PLEASE if you mention these, at least SPELL them right!!) will NOT be attractive to German speakers.

Second Life's main attraction is the sheer variety and the amazing possibilities one has. This attraction is shared by German speakers. They don't necessarily want to see in Second Life what they see down the road every day - they want to see exciting content. BUT - the main thing is, they need to be able to understand the new world they enter. This can only be done by sensible translation of content. I suspect users who do not speak English, or very little, will not stick around for longer than their trial period if they cannot make sense of what is around them in SL.

I feel very strongly about this - I feel this to be a make-or-break point. I'm volunteering to work for the MAKE scenario!! :)
Chie Salome
~( * w * )~
Join date: 19 May 2005
Posts: 221
08-24-2005 02:08
From: Aimee Weber
Dude!

I'm gonna submit a build with like... all these cartoon girls showing their panties, and hentai, and tentacle sex, and WWII kamikaze pilots, and like none of the voices will match up to the mouth movements, and ninjas! everywhere ninjas! and...

Oh wait, this isn't the Japanese welcome area? Nevermind.


LOL :D
So, this is what Americans think the JP grid is supposed to be?
As far as I know, my fellow Japanese SLers are building various types of authentic Japanese architecture which is rarely seen in SL, but I'll let them know we're expected to bring something more freaky and extreme to SL. You won't be dissapointed!
Dominik Bauer
Radio Freak
Join date: 12 Jun 2004
Posts: 112
08-24-2005 09:31
From: Thorval Ayoob
Second Life's main attraction is the sheer variety and the amazing possibilities one has. This attraction is shared by German speakers. They don't necessarily want to see in Second Life what they see down the road every day - they want to see exciting content.


yes, a very good point here. I've already seen that in a private section of Active Worlds and it bored me to death.
what I would find pretty interesting is showcasing some historical stuff...like I live in an over 2000 year old city. we actually have builds here from Roman times that lasted for all these centuries. that would be some interesting cultural part of Germany many might not know about my country...apart from the stereotypes of "Bretzel, Weißbier, Oktoberfest, Volkswagen, Daimler-Chrysler....yes it's Daimler-Chrysler now:)"
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Ben Linden
Igluchanchalowan
Join date: 31 Dec 1969
Posts: 137
08-24-2005 09:48
From: Thorval Ayoob

1. Will the user interface be localised?


Yes, we will have localized viewers.

From: someone

2. Have LL made an attempt on setting up a glossary with official terminology for translated content?


At the moment, I am not aware of any such glossary - but it is an excellent suggestion - I will pass it along.

From: someone

B. Culturally, you want to attract German-speaking customers to Second Life. Obviously, using the American (or who-ever else's) image of what is German (Lederhosen, Brezeln, Black Forest... and PLEASE if you mention these, at least SPELL them right!!) will NOT be attractive to German speakers.


We want to make an area that a German speaking user can identify with, and be comfortable in. Howeve, we don't want it to be an area that looks like "everywhere else." I think one or two resonant cultural identifiers would be helpful - and I will be the first to admit that I, as a non German, am not the most qualified to make. For instance, I think a castle would be an excellent orientation space because they are naturally out of the way, and built to be "safe places." They come pre-loaded with cultural identifiers, plus, they have no problem looking good. However, you will note that it is not a design requirement to make it a castle - I'd love for a one of our current German users to make a kick ass orientation space that fits better with his/her culture - rather than the culture that we stereotype with.

ben
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Jauani Wu
pancake rabbit
Join date: 7 Apr 2003
Posts: 3,835
08-24-2005 09:54
i am interested in submitting a bid for this project. if there is any native germans or expats who would like to be part of the project as an advisor or advisor/scripter please contact me.

i like ben's idea of an iconic castle like neuschawanstein or something as the orientation area. i know this might be considered a sterotypical image of germany, but my travels in europe have informed me that all contemporary buildings in western societies are pretty much similar, and it's the relics of past times that really make the greatest aesthetic distinction in the built environment.
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Jauani Wu
hero of justice
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Dominik Bauer
Radio Freak
Join date: 12 Jun 2004
Posts: 112
08-24-2005 10:03
From: Jauani Wu
i am interested in submitting a bid for this project. if there is any native germans or expats who would like to be part of the project as an advisor or advisor/scripter please contact me.

i like ben's idea of an iconic castle like neuschawanstein or something as the orientation area. i know this might be considered a sterotypical image of germany, but my travels in europe have informed me that all contemporary buildings in western societies are pretty much similar, and it's the relics of past times that really make the greatest aesthetic distinction in the built environment.


the castle idea is pretty good. I would like that very much. the Rhine valley is full of castles for instance. I could provide loads of images there :)
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Marak Coral
Registered User
Join date: 18 Dec 2003
Posts: 38
must have a giant lizard
08-24-2005 10:17
From: Chie Salome
LOL :D
So, this is what Americans think the JP grid is supposed to be?
As far as I know, my fellow Japanese SLers are building various types of authentic Japanese architecture which is rarely seen in SL, but I'll let them know we're expected to bring something more freaky and extreme to SL. You won't be dissapointed!



I'm all for beautiful architecture, but I will be very disappointed it the Japanese grid does not have at least one Godzilla, one of my favorite things from Japan :D
Online Doesburg
absurd hero
Join date: 6 Jul 2005
Posts: 53
it's the little things
08-24-2005 10:39
I agree with Thorval, that the most important thing is a sensible translation of the interface and the associated 'concepts', when trying to appeal to non-native speakers. A number of things can probably even use the original/english term since we germans are quite used to 'anglicisms', especially the somewhat computer-literate among us.

From my personal experience I can say that it's often the little things that remind me of home, after (more-or-less) relocating to the US five years ago. While the architecture might be very similar in many western cities, European cities seem to have this interesting mix of old and new that makes them uniquely different from most US cities, e.g. modern buildings mixed in with buildings that are hundreds of years old; modern buildings, but arranged in a medieval (i.e. non-rectangular) layout. Maybe something like that mixed in with some small regional symbols would do the trick. Things you wouldn't normally think of as 'typically german'. Yet they are in their own way (e.g. mail boxes are yellow in Germany - stuff like that). I believe that these little things of everyday living are far more important in creating a feeling of familiarity than overt references to german culture and history.

If I had more time, I'd put a bid in, but unfortunately I don't. Time permitting, I would be very happy to help in these efforts, though.
Jauani Wu
pancake rabbit
Join date: 7 Apr 2003
Posts: 3,835
08-24-2005 21:31
speaking of neuschwanstein.... link

i found it by chance today.
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Jauani Wu
hero of justice
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Thorval Ayoob
Space Cadet
Join date: 18 Jan 2005
Posts: 39
08-25-2005 04:48
From: Ben Linden
Yes, we will have localized viewers.
This is interesting - it poses a variety of questions, some of which I communicated already to you, Ben, but I just mention these here very briefly:
  1. Translation of user interface terms, like "Edit" or "Snapshot" - may have multiple possible translations, so terminology must me decided upon soon; translations are likely to expand by a factor of up to 40%, posing display problems (truncations) and may require layout or term changes.
  2. Hotkeys for German version will be different, which will need to be takein into account in reference material. Also conflicting hotkeys will need to be resolved.
  3. Conflicting SW jargon between German Windows and Mac OS may need to be resolved, but could be a minor issue.
A localised viewer plus collaterals is great, though, Ben! Will definitely make German potential customers feel so much more at home.

From: Ben Linden
At the moment, I am not aware of any such glossary - but it is an excellent suggestion - I will pass it along.
I'd like to advocate public availability of such at the earliest convenience, so bi-lingual residents can get used to the agreed jargon and translations will be consistent.
Thorval Ayoob
Space Cadet
Join date: 18 Jan 2005
Posts: 39
08-25-2005 05:08
Hmmm hmmm.... must say, I have my problems with Neuschwanstein.... like many other Germans, it makes me cringe! It is a symbol for Germany really only abroad - in Germany, it's regarded as what it is, namely a mad-cap fairy castle of a cookoo aristocrat... ok you can have it somewhere, but please not as a defining object for new German users!

As was said before, a nice mix of historic and modern buildings may be much more appropriate. I really would like to see the Brandenburg gate, as it is at the core of German post-war history and has become a symbol for our reunited people. But ugly subway walls with German graffity would be just as welcome and would make new German residents feel welcome - have German billboards too, with beer or washing-up liquid ads or emblems of German football teams etc.... that would be just awesome and would make excellent communication starters for new arrivals! (and that's what we want too....)

From: Online Doesburg
A number of things can probably even use the original/english term since we germans are quite used to 'anglicisms', especially the somewhat computer-literate among us.
Agree - things like "TP" or "Avatar" should probably remain as is, it would also make sense from a communication point of view (communication with existing, English-speaking users that is).

One thing our existing community will have to get used to is that new German users may not be familiar with the many acronyms we all so love :confused: like AFK or GL or LOL or ROFL or BRB etc. etc. Be prepared to do a lot more explaining than you used to! ;)

From: Online Doesburg
From my personal experience I can say that it's often the little things that remind me of home (...) Things you wouldn't normally think of as 'typically german'. Yet they are in their own way (e.g. mail boxes are yellow in Germany - stuff like that). I believe that these little things of everyday living are far more important in creating a feeling of familiarity than overt references to german culture and history.
Couldn't agree more. Letter boxes, wheelie bins, rubbish bins, road signs, etc.... these will make new users much more feel at home and yet would not interfere too much with new and exciting content they may look for.

It has to be said - getting written or spoken German content is far more important for making German-only speakers feel at home, than SL imitations of Bavarian fairy castles.... :rolleyes: :D
Thorval Ayoob
Space Cadet
Join date: 18 Jan 2005
Posts: 39
08-25-2005 08:49
From: Jayjay Shaftoe
hows about building something more recent and positive?
Hamburg Reeperbahn (St. Pauli), for Escort services and Dance clubs
Düsseldorf Altstadt (Pubs, Clubs, Watering holes)
Berlin KadeWe, shopping, Reichstag etc.
Frankfurt (Paulskirche for politics, Banking area for money laundering etc..)
München, (yes even Oktoberfest, Art Museums, Lakesides and so on)
Just re-read this now. Good selection. The Hamburg theme could also include a harbour section. Would also like to see one stadium and if possible a TV tower (Stuttgart?).

Of course we'd also need a section of Autobahn, complete with over-signage, a typical "Baustelle" (roadworks) with flashing lights, speed reductions (100, 80, 60, 40 lol), a nice long traffic jam with dozens of Dutch caravans and Eastern European trucks, and a police speed check with on-the-spot fines.

We'd also need pedestrian crossings that bounce you back off the street if you dare to cross it with the red light showing (which of course would be permanently on).

Hmmm getting into this now!! :D :rolleyes:

Pity I can not execute any of this... but bash me for ideas, there's more hidden in the the black hole of my brain (if you'd like to call it that....:o )
Thorval Ayoob
Space Cadet
Join date: 18 Jan 2005
Posts: 39
Ummmm.........
08-25-2005 08:52
Gosh, I do post here a lot dont I.... :rolleyes:
Jackal Ennui
does not compute.
Join date: 25 May 2005
Posts: 548
08-25-2005 09:52
From: Ben Linden
Yes, we will have localized viewers.


That's great, but please leave the user the choice to use either version (english or localized) and don't "force choose" for him based on IP, RL adress or whatever. :)
Pham Neutra
Registered User
Join date: 25 Jan 2005
Posts: 478
Now I call this "german" content
08-25-2005 23:20
Yes, this would make any German "feel at home" in an instant!
From: Thorval Ayoob
Of course we'd also need a section of Autobahn, complete with over-signage, a typical "Baustelle" (roadworks) with flashing lights, speed reductions (100, 80, 60, 40 lol), a nice long traffic jam with dozens of Dutch caravans and Eastern European trucks, and a police speed check with on-the-spot fines.

We'd also need pedestrian crossings that bounce you back off the street if you dare to cross it with the red light showing (which of course would be permanently on).
But don't forget some stretches of the Autobahn where there is no speed limit at all ;) Love that (which made me loose my driving license twice because I did not watch for the traffic signs signalling the end of freedom *grins*). Doing this in SL would drive the car into the ground on any border crossing ...
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