Proposed Ban on Hateful Diatribes

You're right. I'm guilty of exactly the same thing.

I apologize for this.

I will let that post stand unedited as an example of what not do and how to handle oneself when they make a mistake. I have learned something from this and will not make the same mistake again.

~Ulrika~

Honestly, Ulrika? I sincerely ask this because it has been my observation that women can being the biggest users of gender specific attacks on other women. Usually what follows is a claim that by being a woman, they can't be anti-women, in an attempt to excuse themselves of any responsibility for behavior which a man would get raked over the coals for. I've seen this used as an effort to break through the glass ceiling which many professional women hit. An attempt to let the old boys network know that one belongs with them because similar views toward women are shared.

I've lots of thoughts on this topic and could go on but I'm interterupting the battle, aren't I? Sorry for the intrusion. Carry on.

BTW --this also points up the possibility that Jews can indeed be anti-semitic.

It's actually a fascinating topic. I must concede again that I am familiar with self-hatred and with individuals adopting ideologies that are detrimental to their own position in society. After a little introspection, I realize that this is a omission in my argument used to support the sexist caricature I apologized for above.

What's particularly troubling about this to me, is that I criticized Cienna for using a caricature as a prelude to a straw-man attack, while I myself was using an omission to support a caricature.

I must apologize for this as well. My desire to counter an illogical and quasi-sexist argument has led me to craft something just as bad.

Again, sorry. I have learned quite a lesson from this.

~Ulrika~

Yes, the self-loathing argument is a valid one. I however think that one can make crticial remarks about ones own race/group without the remarks rising to the level of being anti-whatever. It is a fine line though, that is for sure.

On this one, I'll agree to disagree --since we are no doubt talking the same point in a circular fashion.

I can't really argue against the usage of the term self-loathing, but it's not really what I'm thinking. Self loathing to me implies an attempt to disassociate oneself from a group affiliation which may be perceivd to be holding them back. Where as the women I see using this tack seem to be striving to get ahead, using whatever it takes to get there ad playing the cutthroat every man for himself game, if you will. It's not so much that they hate their group classification as much as being self focused to the exclusion of any group identity and unwilling to let the consideration of others get in the way of achieving their own goals. Am I making myself clear or muddying the issue?

By implying that there is a correct manner of behaviour for women and an incorrect one --you are being IMO unfairly prejudiced to your own point of view. The impication in your post is that in order for a woman to get ahead she must stop acting "like a woman".

How does a woman act?

I am in agreement with you, as I said, it is a really fine line sometimes. I don't consider one woman calling another woman a bitch, for example, as the product of self-loathing, but more simply a matter of trying to demean an opponent. This can quickly become an incendiary topic, so I will be careful with it. It is also something subject to interpretation, I suppose.

I have a Jewish friend who lives in Israel, who I discussed the Gaza withdrawal with. She was very unsympathetic to the Gaza residents, and made comments about them simply pandering to the media and how shameful they were. A statement like this made by a non-Jewish person could be viewed as anti-semitic in some circles, but by a Jewish person in the midst of the situation? I don't think it has anything to do with self-loathing, and I don't think it is anti-semitic.

Your desire to strike back against someone who finds you boring, illogical, but entertaining was what brought you to make this post. Your effort to label me anti-semitic fails, your effort to label me at all fails. Though I do find it amusing that you hoist yourself by your own petard in the process.

It may escape some, but I assure you, not all... you only apologize for being caught out.

Entertaining as always, Ulrika. I'll step away from your wall now so you may continue your ramming speed activities. (chuckle)

Huh? Nope. I didn't say anything about acting "like a woman".

I don't see where Ulrika called you an anti-semite. I see where she compared your OP (labeled in this thread as a diatribe) to techniques used in anti-semitic propoganda. AS such she's not labeling you so much as your techniques at fomenting hatred.

I also find myself usually unimpressed when someone says they find someone else's opinion "amusing" or does that "lol" thing.

What I do find interesting is that through this discussion, Ulrika has seen where she is guilty of the very thing she criticizes and has copped to it. This indicates to me, at least, a mind ready to engage in self-examination. Your own posts, in this thread, seem to me to be in large part defensive in nature.

I don't particularly find either of you correct in your positions, though I'll give Ulrika a C+ for seeing her post in the same light as her original critique.

"Where as the women I see using this tack seem to be striving to get ahead, using whatever it takes to get there ad playing the cutthroat every man for himself game, if you will. "

Your implication seems to me to be that a woman engaging in "cutthroat" activity is engaging in an "every man for himself" game. Am I mis-reading your accusation that "cutthroat" activity is mannish?

Every man for himself is a common term. I'll not change it to every person for himself to be politically correct.

People speak here for different reasons. I am willing to share my observations of the behavior of SOME women in the workplace along with my insight on the motivations of this behavior. I am also interested in hearing others thoughts on the behavior as well. If you don't believe that this occurs, well, okay. Perhaps you can find something more useful for my thoughts, a mispelling or grammatical error to add to your signature.

Mislabeled, thanks, and the day Ulrika actually understands technique will be a grand day indeed. If anything, she projected her own technique and clearly defined it.



No worries. That certainly doesn't make her efforts here any less amusing.



You are welcome to whatever opinion you prefer. I would not expect you to hold a differing opinion, seeing as Ulrika and you tend to be attached at the hip in any given thread.



I don't particularly find I care beyond the chuckle this 'analysis' provides, for which I thank you.

I'm surprised you haven't chuckled yourself to death yet, Cienna, in terminal amusement at how inferior everyone else is compared to you.

coco

I'm quite positive that when Ulrika actually gets around to saying something that I disagree with I will call her on it. (as I did up-thread) I have no problem disagreeing with friends and debating them in the forums. A fact many of my friends will eagerly back up.

There are many people who post on these forums that express themselves in ways that impress me. Generally, you're not one of them.

For the entertainment of others, I issue Ulrika a challenge to debate me on an issue in which we disagree.

Kendra once called me a misogynistic racist. Then we fell in love.

Have you been drinking today? You have been snarky all over the place

And yet, somehow, I still find room to disagree with you at times.

I'm rather enjoying this side of her.

Why, thank you! (That is a compliment, right?) Just drinking the usual Diet Coke.

coco <--- trying to remember where else she might have been snarky on the forums today so as to go back and admire it

It's not a bad thing lol. There was the violent thing in the L$ rebound thread, the thing you said about deleting the content if you get another premium account, and now this. It has just been amusing me, I like it.

There are very very few people I think are inferior to me. However, there are a good number of people who think they are inferior to me. They usually demonstrate this by stating repeatedly that I think I'm superior to everyone.

I try to forgive them the idiocy with varying degrees of success.

Oh yeah, well, the violent thing was a joke!

coco