Malicious Office-Recall in Ravenglass

Which makes me wonder, how did he get an invite? I'm not well-versed on group management, but wouldn't requiring an invite reduce this? I guess they could always come in under an alt account though.

I presume his group had open membership.

I wonder how many other group founders who have it set to open membership have had similar experiences?

Hey, Talen. Where do you keep your car parked? I'd like to reposses it. I'd just be using my screwdriver and wirecutters in the way they were intended.

Flawed logic; the screwdriver and wirecutters are not part of the car. The group voting tools are part of the group system.

A group is not a government. It is a mechanism for managing permissions.

Officer recall should be optional under the authority of the group founder.

I hear you, Prok. It's the biggest reason I haven't formed any large groups.

Actually, it's the ugly, retarded, double-Y chromosonal child of the two, and therein is the problem.

Damn straight. And there needs to be graduated levels, even sub-groups with different access to different tools for both the group and the land the group might own.

It should be optional upon creation of the group, and once it's been created, it should not be changeable.

Interesting, while I agree that the grieving was uncalled for.
It was done in a manor that is not against the TOS, as it was the tools provided.
However, the issue to be brief is simply yours due to your own previous actions to provoke this sort of response within the guidelines of the TOS and CS.



“Your” determination while it's yours is of little importance to me.
To be quite honest the same goes for quite a few others considering your lackluster attempts at inciting change.
Trust me Prokofy being labeled the bad person is not necessarily the platform on which to stand to get your point across.
I can point out a series of high-geared contributors that finally quit SL due to the dogged perception of their involvement as being “bad” members of SL.
A semi positive example would be the following.
Anshe, while quite a witty businessperson has chosen not to engage in conflict on the forums.
Which in all honesty makes her a stronger businesswoman as no one can pick apart her personality.
So be careful in your boasting, as it will come back to haunt you.
Not from me of course as I am merely an observer of your rhetoric on the forums.



To even reply to this is almost hysterically amusing considering this is a figment of your perception.
Again something your “determination” is trying to impose on the rest of the world of SL.

To be honest Prokofy “I feel” the prudent method you should have chosen here was to have discussed this with LL and possibly AR reported the individual considering the threats.
But that is just my feeling and a perception of my own from observation.

However, this continued perception by you of the FIC is not only amusing, but also actually quite disturbing considering it gives serious insight into your mental faculties.

I don’t wish you to shut up Prokofy.
But, I do wish you would use some sane logic and simple prudence in your future posts as the more you reply to rhetoric the more you look incredibly silly.

I wish you the best in your future endeavors Prokofy and hope to see a redirected sense of direction from you based on logic and fact than mere feelings and perceptions.
So good luck and have a nice day.

Sincerely, Shadow Weaver

OH! Sorry... I was busy this weekend. Having Lindens lavish me with favours and comiserating with oldbies is time consuming!

I have reported this malicious officer-recall attack as an abuse of the TOS and it will be interesting to see if LL responds at all. I believe that anything that harasses residents and significantly detracts from the enjoyment of the game, paralyzing all the activities in a group like a terrorist attack, is indeed griefing.

It sows confusion and turmoil, people couldn't move in their room-mates as planned, no new tenants could come in, because officer recall freezes all new group memberships.

If this is somehow skirting the TOS, well, it needs to be reviewed. Linden Labs themselves totally agree that this is a major flaw in the group tools and provide you candid and open advice on how to avoid such griefing: make additional accounts and put alts in the group as officers.

Indeed, I'll be fascinated to see whether LL's failure to act on this now opens the doors of impunity to a rash of terrorists who don't want the group land tools to change who will now go around attacking land groups.

Your notion of my "previous actions" are just your subjective notions. They aren't "the truth".




I don't think there is anything lackluster at my efforts to promote change. In fact, I think they are rather brilliant.



Well, Shadow, unlike them, I'm not going to cave to the harassment of being called a "bad person" and slandered and pilloried by bullies on the forum.



Anshe can take whatever public profile she likes. She can even let me consciously or unconsciously fight her battles for her, taking the hits for them -- as I did for my very vigorous and public stance on the BOYCOTT ANSHE sign campaign in the New Continent. Many people think you shouldn't argue on the forums and that it is "bad for business" and "bad for your reputation". I'm above all that. I know that ten percent of the people read the forums, and of these, many people in fact secretly lurk and support me -- I know because they send me e-mails or approach me in the game. Some who might not like me personally or my whole menu of ideas at least appreciate some of the things I am doing and know I'm fighting their battles for them. When you do this, it causes some people to really loathe you as a crusading martyr saviour victim whatever type, but they are just afraid to stick their necks out.



Hmm...well thanks for that um...veiled threat...I mean...um...mere comment...hmmm.



But Shadow, that's hilarious. You just got done telling me that unless I polish my image as Mr. Nice Guy and Mr. Roger in his Neighbourhood, I can expect to be forced to be run out of the game on a rail, as others who were "bad people" you identified were run out, and I can expect to lose business. In fact, all you've done here is prove my point about the smug, insular controlling grouplet that still feels that they can tell people how to behave.




I did discuss it with LL. I got the stock response: be sure to campaign to hold your position as officer. But I don't believe that a victim of a terror-like attack should be forced to "campaign" to "hold his position". In fact, I have no fear of my position because I know the tenants aren't going to take a simple rentals group where you pay the rental box and ask the landlord to put in your music choice as some kind of government or organization where you have to have votes about things or where you "vote out of office" the very person paying the up-front purchase price AND tier -- and often HIGHER tier than your rent costs!

The idea that tenants can vote out their landlords is a preposterous ones because they aren't paying the tier, nor did they pay the upfront purchase price. Ditto for merchants in mall owner land groups. If rogue members or fake members chose to do this, they'll be labelled as the griefers they are, and get no support from the tenants or merchants who benefit from the group.



Well, thanks for that personal attack, Shadow, I'm sure it will be allowed to stand like all personal attacks. My mental faculties are all intact, that you very much. And my rants about a small group of people who have set themselvs up to "pass" yes or no on people and their behaviour is mere proven by this exchange, not disproven!



I don't think so. I think my point about a small group of people setting themselves up in judgement, is the thing that looks incredibly silly.



Um, that's a subtle hint there Shadow LOL. No, my principles and posts are based on logic and fact: the harsh reality that unless those hobbling commerce and freedom in the game are willing to cede some of their subsidized control over the game, the game will not grow and prosper.

I disagree with you on this point Shadow. Second Life does work this way. So do the college where I work, the church where I worship, every club and volunteer organization I support, and the city, state and federal governments to which I subject myself.

Somebody point me to an existing organizational implementation that doesn't work this way. Do I need to clarify that I mean a system in which you're actually involved? No, that's reasonably implied.

Did the favours include that one thing? I do have some free tierage.

Are you flirting with me?

Gotta love the Hypocracy!







awww prok cries for help...



Yet more attacks...



This is my favorite....



He/She tries to justify attacks by saying its not an attack. Not to mention turning on one of the few people that defended him/her.

Prok cries about being personally attacked when he/she does it too. I find it very humorous.

MJ

Um, and your examples are...where? I've called a project snobbish, and I've outed a bid to get Linden steerage to an oldbie project. Where are the "personal attacks"? It's just normal criticism.

Normal for you.

Attacks, for the more civil.

By definition, we can't show you what you can't see.

And you've 'outed' nothing, don't kid yourself.

It isn't logic, its an analogy. The group voting mechanism was *not* introduced for the purpose of letting anybody off the street disrupt the group. Just because something is possible in the SL user interface doesn't make it right.

I think some people attract grief by reacting to it in ways that griefers find amusing, or by criticizing people without giving them any face saving grace. Regardless of whether somebody "deserves what they get", wrong is wrong. It is wrong to join a group for the purpose of disrupting it, and it should be considered a TOS violation. Regardless of who the group officers are.

Buster

So you would neg rate her building skills and appearance in retaliation for laughing at you in the forums?

If you were to abuse the rating system that way, how would you be able to legitimately complain about abuse of the group tools?

I'm hoping that whas a rhetorical tripple negrate...

Sadly it wasn't, he actually trip neg rated me Only the second person to do so I might add since I started last July

Wear it as badge of honor

Thanks Toy, actually it doesn't bother me to be honest for several reasons. I don't ever look at ratings to judge a person, so I don't ever consider that someone would look at mine to judge me. Also, it will be gone in 6 months

Huggerz,
MJ

Better logic: Does a person leaving their keys in a car make it "ok" to steal the car?

Answer: No. It makes them stupid, and inviting disaster, but it does not make it "ok".

It's more or less the same thing with leaving a group set to 'open invite'.

I believe in open societies. I leave my groups on open, so it is a convenience, anybody any time of the night or day can come and join the groups and set their prims so they can enjoy a rental property.

The only exception I had was one tower where some griefers kept coming and putting either a landscanner or some kind of sky box which they actually set to my group so that their prims would appear to be set to group. Before the latest version of the game, I couldn't see who was doing that because it was too far up to fly easily, and I couldn't press return without making all my tenant's suffer. As soon as we got the new land tools, I could see the names of griefers and blow them off my land pronto even when they set to my group without paying. And thank God for it.

I don't believe groups should be closed, especially when they provide public services, and I don't believe that we should live in fear of assholes who have so little life that they need to invade other people's groups and disrupt them.

I'll remind everyone that this lack-of-lifer was mad that I had him on my ban list on a property next to his. And it is my right to put somebody on a ban list if I see them as disruptive and engaging in practices that scare away my customers, slander me, etc. This is normal.

I don't think that this deep flaw in the group system is a reason not to have groups open, or groups with land open. Some mall owners get around this by keeping two groups. One group has land and is closed. The other has merchants who set to that group to hold their prims. Then once a week, the landowner switches his land's group ownershp by having one of the officers sell the land to himself for $0 and move it into the other group in order to cleanse off the prims.

It's my own experience that this practice can lead to accidently not keeping the tier fixed up right on your group, and also chuck out tenants needlessly who paid but forgot to set prims, and it also upsets tenants if they see a change in group ownership names on the land -- they worry about their vendor stability. I'd like to avoid that problem. It's also the case that if you have hundreds of little properties, converting them all to different groups all the time is too insane.

So I try to do this, mindful of the fact that I can be perniciously attacked. And I know what my protection is. It isn't keeping my group closed. It's providing a service and a series of communities for people to live in and enjoy. Those 100 or so people in Ravenglass who were suddenly faced with an officer recall vote out of nowhere either ignored the vote completely, which enables it to time out, or they voted "no" or they "abstained". The only "yes" vote came from the griefer. A cohesive civil society of people with common interests and belief in the rule of law is a better protection against griefing and terrorism than a closed society that has become a tyranny in the name of security.

MrsJ, regarding your triple neg, and Buster, tune in here for the context:

The triple negrate was for your nasty post using coarse language and slamming my children, whch invaded the classified section and was a thread closed by Jeska. Here it is:




I also negged you for the Alston affair, which is tiresome to rehearse, Buster and others IM me in game, and I'll give you a breakdown to correct all the tendentious and inaccurate portrayal here LOL.

Honestly, no good deed goes unpunished lOL.