Thoughts About God

Although this is warping time slightly, we are still only traveling IN time. If a 2 dimentional object moves, it's warping the 3rd dimention slightly too, but it's still not traveling THROUGH 3 dimentions.

Great link Ama! Thanks

well the thing is you cant explain god in scientific terms.

if he created the universe and the laws of time and physics and all then he is outside of those laws meaning it is outside of human comprehension to be able to understand him.

right... thats exactly what they want you to believe: you're too dumb to understand him, so just go home, pray, make lots of money and donate it to our church. bleh.

why is it so difficult for some people to think that there is nothing more than what there is right now? why is it hard for some people to think that there is no higher being, no afterlife?

Creating certain bourndries does not put you outside of them, unless you have the reason to do so. What reason does "god" have to remain outside of our knowledge? What reason does "god" have to be omniprescent if he doesn't affect us in any way? What is the point of leaving impressions without factualizing your existance? I "god" IS omniprescent, then "god" could prove his existance. If he sees no need to do so, then I see no reason to play his little game and say he exists.

Now, back to the time traveling fun (I babble and kinda let my thoughts flow, so... it may get weird)...

I do actually believe in some form of fate. I'm not sure why... I feel dumb for it sometimes. Maybe I believe in fate because it makes me feel better. I DON'T think it possible for anyone to see fate though. Time travel through light travel is basically slowing yourself molecularly, and I don't see how this could let you go back in time.

Perhaps time works on more of a layered process where every instance is simply an image placed on top of the previous instance. The end of time might simply be when time runs out of room for "images." Then again, when an instance no longer remains in anyone's memory, does that time cease to exist? History is only relevant to each person. Perhaps one can only travel to the past by accessing another's memory. As far as we know, existance started about 100 years ago, and people in the beginning were VERY creative.

Maybe this is only a VERY complex version of SL for people one dimension ahead of us, and our SL counterparts think that they exist in their own world, and every decision WE make for them, they think they make for themselves.

MMMmmm... theorizing is fun...

The concept of fate may have some scientific support...
http://www.upscale.utoronto.ca/GeneralInterest/Harrison/BellsTheorem/BellsTheorem.html

Probably for the same reason people have evangelical faith that there is no god or afterlife. There is no evidence to support either theory so blind belief on either side is tantamount to fanaticsim.

That is, of course, my opinion.

Antagonistic Protagonist

of course, this means that as a rational being, i am forced to agree with you.

Well, to some extent, it's human nature to look for someone more powerful than them in times of need or trouble. It's comforting to think that there's someone who can solve all your problems; someone more powerful than you who's on your side. Of course, the churches use that to get you on God's side by filling their own agendas, IMHO.

there are bad church's pastors etc etc dont blame that on religion itself.

when 90%+ of the world is religious then of course there will be bad or crazy religious people.

and btw just because you dont lebel your religion as a religion doesnt give you the right to call religious people dumb and such.

i dont go around insulting you for your beliefs or morals and such so you should do the saem for others.

Sorry for the misinterpritation. No, of course not all churches. There are bad pastors, priests, etc., though, who manipulate you by making you feel guilty when you don't achieve their agenda, which you can't deny (and you didn't).

And when did I call people with faith dumb?

I don't think anyone called religious people dumb Chaunsey. Some of the most intelligent people I know are religious in one way or another. But your reaction brings up something that I do find really interesting.

It's always difficult to challenge religious belief and have open discussions about it because religious people are so quick to go on the defensive and feel like they're being called dumb even when they're not. I've always wondered why that is. Personally I think it's because it's impossible to have absolute faith in something that can't be proven and that every religious person has doubts about the validity of their beliefs deep down (or perhaps not so deep down).

The same is true for non-believers too. Like Ant said, no one can be 100% certain of their position. I consider myself an atheist because based on all the available evidence I think the chances that there's a god are so remote that I'm a lot closer to true atheism than agnosticism. I can never say that there couldn't possibly be one. But I can say with certainty (according to my personal views) that it's incredibly unlikely I'd say there's about the same chance of there being a god as there is of a frog hopping up to me one day and reciting shaekespear. It could happen. It's just really unlikely and there's currently no concrete evidence that it's possible. Your mileage may vary.

As for Juro's question about why it's so hard for people to think that there's nothing more than this life... I think the reasons are numerous, and have deep roots in human psychology. Science is a relative newcomer in human history. The world has been defined and cultures have been built around religious belief for thousands of years. Even though science does a much better job of providing answers and benefits than religion ever has, religion has the weight of tradition behind it... traditions that are woven deeply into the fabric of our societies.

You're more likely to have been raised participating in religious rituals and traditions and going to church with your family than to have spent a lot of time sitting around with your family playing with an abacus or a slide rule. Science doesn't incorporate tradition. Religion does. I believe the majority of people don't labor over deep contemplation about these things. They inherit the general consensus from the culture in which they're raised. People herd and tend to take the path of least resistance. Atheists aren't exactly popular with the majority of people, and the lure of wanting to believe there's some grand purpose and a better place after this life is seductive. If someone doesn't have an true intellectual interest in the subject or a need to arrive at their own individual conclusions then they'll go with religion. It's a bit like the lotto. You're probably not going to win but you definitely won't if you don't buy a ticket. Believing that there's something more helps to mitigate the inescapable fact that for most people, life is about 50% happinness and 50% times that make you feel like gouging your own eyes out.

*Starts teaching a frog to recite Shakespere.*

Ah shoot. I was soooo close. All I can get my frog to recite is Dave Berry. No shakespare. arg. oh well.

hehehe, I'd settle for Dave Barry.

well i never said you did darwin heh.

though some people in this thread have basically implied that religious people are just weak minded and such,although that is the opposite.

its FAR easier to just say that there is no god and you can do what you want and just live for yourself.

That's a hard thing to measure objectively, but I think you're wrong Chaunsey. We live in a world that still persecutes atheists. There's no automatic community to feel a part of as an atheist. Also I believe that it's harder to find meaning in life when you have to invent your own rather than inherit it from others. That need for meaning is universal. It would make for an interesting sociological study

I agree with Chip.

Also, Chauncy I don't recall anyone implying that "religious people are just weak minded and such". Although, I admit, I have thought that every so often.

It is all about karma. The universe is one big honkin equation with everything effecting everything else. What you do will come back to you, maybe 100 fold or maybe only at 1/10th.

Do unto others as they would have done unto themselves.

Everything else will fall into place.

I'm an agnostic fatalist who believes in karma.

Well I used to think the same.....I truely did. I took comfort in the fact a wrong was put upon me undeservingly and because it would be lowering my standards to react...I would remind myself of the ol "what comes around goes around", "what you put out you get back", "do unto others.....blah blah blah.....

The fact of the matter is this, dont feed the superstitious nonsense about treating people the way you would like to be treated. It is a transparently narcissistic approach, and may be the sign of a weak mind.

Chinese do not believe in "luck". Luck is where opportunity meets the best prepared mind........

jojo
(why oh why didnt i take the blue pill)

I sometimes think God is just a convenience. Most people view Him as such anyways. I mean look at 9-11. Before that people were whining about God in the public schools. Then 9-11 hit. Oh God bless America. Let's pray! Yes God help those poor souls.

2 weeks later God came to a slow backdrop and it was back to normal life.

I use to be religious. I dont hate God, I hate the people who follow Him. If they're not busy checking out your clothes and judging you for it, they're busy trying to shove something down your throat. Or even worse, making God a convenience. Only calling on Him when it best suits a personal issue.

I'm sure I've already got some of you hot under your collars and I apologize. It wasnt meant to flame. I am just venting all the biggots that walk around claiming to be something they're not. And only using God when it benefits their life or situation.

Heh.....Iam not hot under collar....I think it takes much guts to say what you did!!! Your my new hero.....

I think most people that live by "THE GOSPAL" live under conviction. They fret and worry , if they are going to hell, if their family or friends are going to hell. That each time they act in a totally normal human way, they might go to hell. They worry about if their childrens teachers are going to hell or if the check out girl with all that lipstick is going to hell.....that is a gawd awful way to muddle thru this life.....I know who I am....I know my intentions.....if there is a Heaven, Im in like flynn. But those ppl living the so called christian life would judge me and say Im hell bound....and have. So busy looking around to see who is doing what....never once seeing what they are doing to themselves.

It makes them ooooo so mad at me, because I cant be scared into a perpetual worried state of mind and fear that face they painted on sin they dubbed the devil.


peace pot and microdot
jo
(if this is wrong i dont wanna be right)

When you mention that Jolene you remind of the various things I saw when I attended so called Christian schools. Like anything in life, you will find the bad mixed in with the good. Something originally intended to be something great, marred and mucked up by the few.

I've met some folks who believe that women wearing jeans have lost their salvation. And another example is Wacko Texas. Or you have those that believe 'the beat' is a form of the devil.

All of these are examples of what gives Christianity a bad name. And again, those who act like they are part of it but really not. "Well it says in the Bible they drank wine so I'm going to drink cuz they said its ok". Well, those who do the research from the scripts will show that it was non-alcoholic. People like to exploit God to further their own ends. That is a classic example of such.

A quick response to the post earlier which claimed that atheism is a form of faith, just the same as religion.

This is typical of the arguments put forward by religious people. It is the religious person who makes the assertion that God exists. The atheist merely states that he sees no evidence for this, and on the balance of probabilities he is pretty damn certain that God does not exist. That is not a statement of faith, any more than disbelief in Santa Claus or the tooth fairy is 'faith'.

Atheism is NOT a form of faith. It IS however a belief system (non-belief system?). Problem here is so many people think to believe and to have faith are the same thing. They aren't.