YAY! More event abuse!

Description: Erotic Club JASMINE is looking for the hottest escorts in SL! If you have what it takes and you want to make some extra $L, come over and apply!
Hosted By: Maximus Rebus
Date: Sunday, October 17, 2004 3:30PM
Time: 3:30PM - 5:00PM (90 minutes)
Category: General Fun
Cover Charge? No
Location: Wolof (160, 130)

And event posting rules include:


It'd also be nice to see LL taking action against club owners who provide escort services.

No offense to the club owners I know who allow this, but I think it's reprehensible to exploit people this way.

Does 'escort' fall into the classification of 'overt sexual descriptions'?

I've know (and still do know) several escorts in RL, and while alot of escorts do include sex as a part of the package, not all do.

In looking it up at dictionary.com, escort has the following definition:

A person, often a prostitute, who is hired to spend time with another as a companion.


An escort *can* be a prostitute, but it is not a requirement. A prostitute is an escort.


This particular business practice has never really bothered me, probably because I think prostitution should be legal and regulated.

Remember, Juro, this is about the event DESCRIPTION. It's okay for an event to have sex talk, just it can't announce that in the event. - the event itself should not be about sex talk, etc, but it's okay if it happens there, and it's not the main point of the event.

Still, money for sex in general is just... i dunno, kinda pathetic?

I gotcha Hiro... but I guess I was asking: does 'escort' imply a sexual act/description?

Possibly, but not necessarily.. certainly not more than 'Erotic' does (used in the name of the club)

While I certainly wouldn't sell my 'services' (cuz I give them away for free ), I think prostitution is an old profession that has lost all of its respect at the hand of the moralists. Once upon a time, a prostitute was held in high regard...

But, I digress..


Prostitution entry @ Wikipedia

1) Because it's a legitimate complaint, and there's no better way of enforcement then social pressure.

2) No, but it might as well be. Who pays for an escort without expecting some sort of sexual favor? Granted, SOME don't, but they are in the minority. Even more so in SL. Even MORE so coming from a club called "erotic club jasmine".

LF

because event abuse is an ongoing public issue.

Why would LL care if people want to sell "sex" in SL? Isn't it just words or pixels? Perhaps LL should filter all chat and IM's to prevent this. Man, I would love to see the list of words for that filter.

Whether or not an escort is naughty, the event listing is NOT a place for advertisements. That WAS an advertisement. So, it is wrong either way.

Yes, but posting here will not get the event removed. Only talking to a Linden will.

Aren't all event listings advertisements? If you were the proprietor, how would you go about letting the community know you're looking for new talent?

Can't we all just get lives? Go build something!

Okay, my question to all is this...why is my hiring event being singled out, when there is another EXACT SAME EVENT for another club which was totally ignored and not removed??? Even after my complaint to Jill Linden that I was being unfairly discriminated against?

This is the event which was allowed to remain when mine was removed:

**********

Description: Do you need to make some money? Are you looking for a job? Have you ever considered dancing in SL? If so then come on down to Pleasures Erotica. Were looking to hire dedicated, reliable dancers and escorts that love to have fun and make new friends. So come on down and apply today.

IM me for a Transport!!
Hosted By: RizzPlayaBabe Zander
Date: Sunday, October 17, 2004 3:00PM
Time: 3:00PM - 4:30PM (90 minutes)
Category: General Fun
Cover Charge? No
Location: Fudo (118, 176)
Linden Support Requested: Yes

********


If you have a problem with escorts, that's fine with me. Don't come by my club. I'm just trying to make back a slight amount of the exorbitant price I've payed to build a club that is unique to SL and a cut above the rest. I didn't set out to have sex for hire but when people have requested it repeatedly I would be foolish not to, considering how much I spend on maintenance fees and payroll. I don't make a dime off anything the escorts do, and I am not the one that introduced them to SL.

If I violated the posting guidelines, which I don't believe I did, that is fine and up to the Lindens. But allowing one group to have the EXACT SAME event while not allowing it is hypocrisy and downright embarrassing to the Lindens.

Juro--if you're looking for a proprietor, you use the Classifieds adds in the forums. That's what they're there for; they were created to help deter advertisements in the event calendar. The event calendar is for -events- it is -not- an advertisement listing or an attempt at finding more employees.

Look, I can live with all that and I apologize if I have offended anyone. I didn't read it as being against the guidelines but that is open to some interpretation. But the dual standard being applied here is completely baffling to me.

I have seen plenty of hiring/staffing events and none has ever been removed to my knowledge. If the Linden's have a problem with such events they should make it more clear in the posting guidelines.

Maximus--the other event listing was wrong, too.

OK.. I guess I get it now. I just think sometimes the differences can lie in the gray area. If you were having a recruitment event, it's still sorta an event and the listing is still sorta an ad.

Anyway... back to our regularly scheduled programming.

But it was not removed. Even after I complained to Jill Linden about the unfair treatment. There was plenty of time for that event to be removed after I filed MY complaint.

I appreciate your position, although I think the rules are unclear. I was not offering sex for money in the event, which is the infraction I allegedly violated.

Looking at other events, I see where I went wrong. Next time I should use the pretense of a bogus contest so that I can get Linden to pay me $250 for hiring staff, as in this "event:"

*******

Description: OK EVERYONE BE READY TO GET VERY WET!! WET T-SHIRT CONTEST!!

$250 FOR BEST WET T-SHIRT FEMALE
$250 FOR BEST WET T-SHIRT MALE

MONEYBALL WILL BE ON GIVING OUT $50 EVERY 5 MINUTES!!

IM ME FOR A TP. LOOKING FOWARD TO SEEING YOU!

NOW HIRING DANCERS AND ESCORTS. PLEASE STOP BY AND SPEAK WITH ME OR RizzoPlayaBabe ty!!
Hosted By: Akira Patel
Date: Sunday, October 17, 2004 4:30PM
Time: 4:30PM - 6:30PM (120 minutes)
Category: Contest
Cover Charge? No
Location: Fudo (123, 185)
Linden Support Requested: Yes

********

Certainly no more pathetic than trying to act as the SL event police?

And this is why we don't post to the forums about issues that do not directly concern us that are best dealt with by the Lindens privately.

Well I confess I'm baffled. I think I've picked up two different kind of objections in this thread: smut factor and adversion to advertising.

Starting with the smut. Escort is a nice neutral term. You can use it in front of the kids and you can list it in the phone book. Nothing explicitly sexual in the term at all. If you start banning every word that can be taken sexually in some context, well we are going to have to stop talking. I bet I can make almost any word sexual.

Question... was the event listed as mature? If so, then all you have to do to avoid seeing that event is NOT check off the include mature events box.

The second objection. Using events as an advertising medium. Well, fashion shows, scripting shows, new product launches, mall openings, club openings... Hmmm, sounds like a huge portion of the events list already advertises something or other. Nothing wrong with that either. Lots of people in SL shop for recreation, or go club hopping.

It makes sense to me that if you want to hold an audition for dancers, bartenders, clowns, or escorts that you should be able to list it in events. It is an event after all.

Surreal

/me is glad no one caught the description of the last Mature Toys Show I hosted... much more explicit language!!

Frankly, I was suprised to see my event as the one being made an example of in this thread. I don't frequent these boards, and only came here after I was contacted by Jill Linden informing me that my event had been removed.

I wouldn't have even bothered to respond to any of this had it not been for the flagrant double-standard which allowed someone else to have the same type of event at the same time while mine was deleted.

When a Linden comes to me and says "Hey, we have a problem with this," I take notice and will do my best not to let it happen again (this is actually the first for me). But when I see that I am being singled out, and that a rule that is applied to me is being ignored for others (even after I raise the issue), I have a major problem with that. That's when I came to the boards to see if other people have had similar inequitable situations with event postings, and I found this thread.



Given the nature of my club, every event I host is listed as mature. The issue was not even raised by the Lindens.

The issue as presented to me was that an event to hire staff does not qualify for event listing. I can appreciate this position, although it is not clearly prohibited by their rather poorly phrased guidelines. Again, it is the arbitrary application of the rule that has me upset. The guidelines should be made clearer and enforced in a fair manner when the issue is brought to the Linden's attention. This was certainly not case with me and the other events that I have listed.

Just take a look at previous days' events. Hiring and staffing events have long been a part of the daily event calendar. I would venture to say that the vast majority of SL users don't come anywhere near these message boards, and perhaps a seperate, in-world system could be arranged for this type of activity.

It's clear by the content of this post that the rules are not clear enough. I think this is a good time for a linden to kindly step in and clarify.

Your new found role as forum police is getting rather tiring. Abuse of event listings has been an ongoing discussion, which people are free to have. I don't understand why you feel a need to just litter a thread with your unwelcome disapproval of the poster speaking freely about a topic. You are neither a forum moderator, nor an employee of Linden Lab. If they feel the need to move a thread, delete it, deal with something privately, etc.. they will do so. Hiro was very much on topic in questioning the event guidelines based upon the type of events we still see, while players arbitrarily have their events removed for a variety of reasons.