Blake Rockwell banned for retaliating agains't a Griefer! Vote for New Policy!

Fact - In Second Life it is possible for you to turn up at someone's home/club/land/event and take out your penis extension/gun/bomb and totally screw up something that people have been planning for weeks.

Fact - There are people in Second Life who do this time and time and time again.

Fact - As the landowner your tools for preventing this person from griefing you are utterly worthless

Now if your reguard yourself as a reasonably intelligent human being and cant see something wrong with this system then I respectfully suggest that your deluding yourself as to your own IQ.

I'd also like to point out to those of you busy quoting gun-laws that this ISNT the United States of America.

There are many areas/sims in Second Life where combat is allowed,there are hundreds of games out there for pvp.Someone who turns up armed at a social gathering has done so for ONE reason only and thats to screw up other peoples enjoyment of Second Life.

Why are these people not running around with a gun in World War Two Online or Call of Duty etc? The answer to that is simple - the people in those games can shoot back.

Actually, it's more that the people in those games expect to get shot, and it doesn't annoy them.

Griefers aren't doing it to 'win'. They are doing it to piss people off.

Fact: True..and they are pissing people off of wanting to retain their accounts which is detrementally effecting SL account retention resulting in less retention and more turnover which in turn inhibits accounts growth. Who knows who these people really are, they may even be major game competition exploiting weaknesses in the game to accomplish this and they may be suceeding. You are only as strong as your weakest link. This game has brought many from other games like "The Sims Online" "There" "Moove" and others...think about it. Blow enough smoke and it will stump your growth.

And believe me, im sure there are reasons why some do not want me or Blake helping SL Avatars look more attractive for a reason.

Lindens heed Blake Rockwells warning, believe me, he is only looking out for your interests. You have a gold mine and im sure there are more reasons for griefing that meets your eye.

Yeah, I think adding greater anti-griefer capability would be cool.

It's a side of the world that isn't explored well enough or properly.

That statement has been made many times before... all with similar results. Any further 'statements' to the Lindens is a waste. Those are the rules, abide by them (as wrong as I might think they are) or prepare to be handed down a punishment.



Your poll is biased, to say the least. A vote to allow guns to remain in SL is NOT a show of support for griefers.

So failing to retain the retention of the retention rate creates less retention. Huh. Who'da thunk it.

By the way, what's your proof that a few kids with guns are actually causing a hemorrage of accounts? You get shot, you file an abuse report. End of problem.



Job Opportunity: Work from home! $400 a week exploiting weaknesses in competition's games. Apply at Safeway, or call 555-5604.



If they can't handle the freedom that the SL environment provides, perhaps they picked the wrong game to migrate to.

LF

I think we're going to have to agree to disagree on this topic. I personally think that you are making a mistake by transporting the real life laws of social interaction to virtual space. Yes, some belong- but some don't. The consequences of action are far different here than in RL. I realize that from your point of view it probably seems like a "natural" extension to apply RL rules to SL, but from my point of view they are not analogous. This probably stems from our different views on the importance of evolution (which probably, ultimately stem from our individual mindsets, id est modernism, po-mo, structuralism, etc., and our own spiritual beliefs)-- definitely something for another thread.

The issue at hand is virtual space. The only time I started to step outside of that realm is when I expressed my disdain for people telling me what I can and cannot put in my body in RL because that disgust is going to carry over into people telling me what I can and can't do in virtual space. However, I think that my disdain probably belongs elsewhere because it is a tangent that is clearly threatening to derail your understanding of my viewpoint.



Again, the issue is virtual space. Sorry for muddying it up with my vitriolic RL personal reactions. I never suggested we should all just piss into the wind. But I do think that the Lindens should be less involved in day-to-day affairs like griefing.



There are always rules in any society, even anarchy has a set of rules. Not that I'm advocating anarchy, but even anarchy isn't about "everyone gets to do anything"-- unless you are referring to anarchy as an adjective analogous to "chaos" instead of as a method of social structure.



The individual is also not necessarily equipped to drive a car responsibly but tons of idiots do. Burning a house down is obviously a threat to society because fire is not something that can necessarily be contained or piloted. When you start talking about limiting a person's rights to put something in their body in RL, that's where I'm going to disagree with you because there are ways to do things like drugs (since you keep bringing them up) responsibly. That's a huge can of worms though (especially the word "responsibly", so let's start another thread if you want to talk about that.




Our brains would be wired very differently no matter what because we are different individuals. Even if I was 42 years older than you or the same age, it would still be possible for you to be "wiser" than me or vice versa.



Maybe you could show me how to open my mind? Kuato lives.

"Hurt" is a broad term but I personally feel that it's a little bit silly to make laws to protect the emotions of others on every little possible offense. I think that part of what motivates change and progress in any society is the fact that we could hurt each other.



I felt I needed to elucidate further to point out that the how was "technology" (so that anyone reading wouldn't misunderstand and think that I meant anything else that I might not have thought of). If the technology is already in place then why is any of this an issue? Just use the technology and don't bug the Lindens.

Also, note that many of the other people seem to feel that the current tools are not enough so I have to consider the fact that you might be wrong. I don't know personally because I've never had a griefer problem, or if I did I probably just thought it was funny and forgot about it.



You suggested that the technology is already in place to deal with the danger, so this shouldn't even be an issue. As far as broadening definition of "danger," that's debatable. All the dangers here are virtual, so maybe we need a virtual hospital.




Notice that "poisons" is in quotes- that isn't just because I'm quoting you. We can discuss this in another thread.



I think you're oversimplifying. Many times drinking and (many, but not all) drugs are used as a crutch for people in the same way that religion can be. It isn't the drug's or the alcohol's or Jesus's fault that people don't want to deal with certain issues in their life. Just because something can be used for unfortunate purposes doesn't mean that they are all bad- just as cars or guns or hacksaws are not all bad.

-_-

I never said ban guns. There needs to be implementation to protect invidual AV's of having a choice of No PVP or PVP. Why do you think major MMORPG games have this choice? Because it is a factor in retention rate of account holders.

This game has been out how long now? Compare it to an average good MMORPG game being around for the same amount of time. SL has about 24,000 account holders and been around for what 3 or 4 years? Account holders should be at or at least near 100,000 of course there is advertising and lag issues but there is also griefing issues and all can contribute to more turnover and less retention. Disrupt enough people and piss them off long enough what is the result? I don't have statistics however, I would think it is a factor.
During my time in SL i have spoken to alot of previous players of "The Sims Online", "There", "Moove" and other games, people that come here do like the freedom and adult expression that the other games do not offer, however; there are factors involved to retain these account holders.

The best selling game of all time is "The Sims", this game is "The Sim" times 100 because of the freedom it brings and baby boomers dominate the population. Where are these baby boomers that aren't here that are gamers? Have they come and gone for some of these factored in reasons? Does Linden Labs have a statistical format of how many players stay active and how many are inactive and if not why? With the current format of people having basic accounts rather than premium..that may be one reason they cannot keep true statistics and cannot truely determine what factors that are important for retaining account holders. I ask myself though, why do I even care sometimes. I care about others having enjoyment I guess, but patience does run thin. These are questions that should be investigated through statistics and feedback of account holders.

*Spiderman awakes in his Cell with confusion and discust..as the Sun rises so does a new day Dawn as he rattles the bars, he looks out the Cell window and sees dark eyes staring at him and hears a voice laughing "To be Continued"....

You can't. It's like comparing apples to oranges.

A typical MMORPG takes about 3-4 years to develop, has an average budget of at least $20,000,000 (TSO was $25,000,000), and has a staff of several HUNDRED.

A typical MMORPG is released with a specific release date, is distributed to thousands of stores by an international publisher, is given tons of press by the gaming industry, is advertised to hell and back for 3 months, and is then finally released.

A typical MMORPG has a year's worth of content put in it, if you don't powergame. After some expansion packs, you can get maybe 2 years' worth of content. If you powergame through the quests, you can usually become top level on a server inside 2 months (case in point: WoW had level 60 users within 3 weeks after its release); after that, the game is "done". A typical MMORPG requires a staff of dozens to churn out new content at a constant pace.

A typical MMORPG peaks within 3-4 months after its initial launch, then slowly loses users for the rest of its existance. It eventually becomes unprofitable and is shut down.

Finally, a typical MMORPG is designed for the "lowest common denominator" of computers. That is, a computer 4-5 years old, with a dialup modem.

SL on the other hand, took about 2-3 years to develop on perhaps a several million dollar budget. It had a staff, at launch, of maybe 23. They have no publisher. They have 3 content developers who work on content part time (hi ben, eric, ryan). 99.9% of content in-world is developed by the users, and it changes daily, sometimes hourly.

SL is designed for high-end computers; 2-3 years old maximum, with a hefty broadband connection attached to it. That immediately limits its growth.

There is no "point" to SL. No levels to grind, no foozle to slay. It's just there.

So once again, you're comparing apples to oranges.



SL, at launch, had perhaps 1000 users. It currently has a residency of 26,000 users. It grows at a rate of 20% a month, give or take. Most MMORPGS would kill at having a growth rate, after 3 years, of even half that.



It probably eventually boils down to "leave my game alone, I'm a paying customer, and I don't want to deal with these "griefers". They'd be perfectly content sitting alone in their faux-mansions, moving sex balls around, and not seeing 90% of the world or its residents.

Well, sadly, that can't work on the main grid. If you want privacy, you will need your own private island. Period.




The best selling game of all time was an offline game. The Sims Online was a monumental flop. In fact, if the numbers serve me correctly (mmorpgchart.com), SL is going to be overlapping TSO's total population numbers in the next couple of months.

Baby boomers do not dominate SL's population. The median age is something in the high 20's.




They probably don't have broadband, consider themselves "gamers" by playing Civ2, and don't find the appeal of "virtual legos". SL is a niche product. Some people don't like playing house and making stuff.



What? At my estimates there are around 4000 landholders right now. That leaves 22,000 basic accounts, that no doubt play less than the land holders.

Nevertheless, the basic account holders drive the economy; most purchase money on the GOM or IGE, and use it to buy content that the content producers make. The content producers then sell it back on the GOM for money, thus continuing the cycle of economy.

The only reason to have land is to have a place of your own. If you don't need that, you don't need to pay a monthly fee. Seems pretty easy to me.



Some people get enjoyment out of shooting others.

LF

In your poll you asked if we should 'ban gun scripts'. A prim gun w/o a script doesn't do anything, so what you're speaking of is a fully scripted gun. Banning guns.

There are some tools that land owners can use to help alleviate the problem: make the property no-damage. People who might be more of a target for these types of attacks should consider going out and buying a shield for protection.

Maybe this is a good example of having a slider added to our Preferences that allows each user to define how much 'push' they are willing to be subject to.

Also keep in mine...

The 26000 number is the ACTIVE player base. These are players who've been active within the past 30 days (I believe that's the metric Philip uses when quoted).

Total accounts? You're probably talking well over 100,000 if you want to include all of the people who checked it out once... or are away at college for the semester... or who have left.

-Muppet

When I said Babyboomers dominate the Population, I mean't in real world. As far as some of the other rubuttals you make note of, that is part of advertising. Iam a babyboomer. Regarding your comment about The Sims Online, I wasn't talking about "The Sims Online" I was talking about "The Sims".

Regarding Banning Guns, I said Banning Gun Scripts on Community Sims. As far as scripting i don't know what that would interupt, however; if it can't be done that way, again; there should be some sort of defensive choice for the Avatar not to be pushed if possible.

Regarding Personal Avatar Shields, Shields currently do not work agains't The Shield Breaker or the Shield Breaker 1.5 Gun, that's why it was made, to break through shields, hense why it is called "Shield Breaker" and the bullets duplicated themselves into massive explosions effecting most people in an entire Sim.

Any gun is rendered 100% useless if you sit down on a prim or on the ground.

LF

Lol nice poll!

Report em next time, revenge is not for you to take

My God, I cannot believe this thread is still going *sigh*

Agreed

reporting doesnt really do anything. ive seen people right back online the very next day after a club attack that destroyed scripted items and nothing was ever said about it again. these were even the exact same alt avatars of the person who was actually responsible for the attack. so if the alts arent even suspended and the original avatar isnt susended how is that actually doing anything to take care of the problem?

not to mention that linden labs did nothing to replace the items that were destroyed that can be considered to cost real money since most of the items were purchased with lindens that did cost real money.

of course i see this avatar online the very next day after being completely and absolutely assured by a linden that the problem had been taken care of.

so what i see is griefers being able to do as they please to destroy others virtual property without much fear of anything real happening to them while people that are acting to protect others from these careless individuals getting dealt with imediately.

also i have to point out that certain groups that are involved in causing problems within the community seem to have special favor with certain lindens.

How can an item be destroyed?