Ask not what Jessie can do for you, but what you can do for Jessie

There is nothing really wrong with having Jessie be that sim, a sandbox or premade sim isn't as good as a all out combat sim that you can design yourself, which i believe is the purpose of Jessie.

But the lindens will never ever come out and say this is the purpose of Jessie... Do you know why? They enjoy the struggle between the players in Jessie, read up on the other threads, Hamlets reporting on it, and also Philip has even used this conflict in interviews.

They are very interested in the discourse and interactions between players and think that the struggle in Jessie is a key part of the game, so do not expect them to back either side.

Of course this is just my opinion.

Lindens Rule!

JV

well when v1.1 maybe people will unite and ban these triouble makers from their land to show their apreciation for all the grief. but if we dont discuss the issues about peoples crummy behavior than they dont get solved. but im sure a new type of power strugle will emerge with the new system and i look forward to it because it will allow for a much more level playing field. and the lindens will still have their news as a matter of fact i invite hamlet down to my shootouts for the express purpose of getting more people in jessie. Its good for every one business and residential builds alike as well as community.

Jack O

Ok since the commentary on the pig farm isn't getting though some how lets try this a different way...

You moved into an area with certain laws. You are not happy with these laws. This is the ONLY place with these laws. So instead of going somewhere with laws you can be happy with you demand they be changed for your own selfish reasons.

Are you realy this hypocritical?

do you understand what im complaining about? do you ? do you understand im against nothing but making the game unplayable for others. is thats so wrong. could the laws in jessie or any where else in SL be flawed? yes possibly. so should we adress the problem? yes. i mean we can see what jessie looks like when i take down my builds and my trees and see if anyone wants to go. i can also set up a cube with a script that smashes peole all over the place once they enter jessie. Will people go to or enjoy jessie? nope i wouldnt, id be out spending all those linden bucks i got saved up in builds at the casino. But id rather be in jessie building cool combat builds for shootouts and stuff. I mean-- me --mean cc-co- come- on. any who i dont think we understand eachother very well but hey thats the way it is.

Jack O

The game is "unplayable" for YOU in jessie, but it has survived a long time before you came along and I don't think it needs you to do so for a good time longer.

You have steped into a situation that didn't ask for any help and have basicly be calling for the gods to come down and change something based on your personal whims. You could have settled anywhere else and not had a problem.

So take down your builds and trees, put them back up somewhere else that wont cause you or the area any greif and quit this unessisary move to change the last bastion of Full on SL style combat. That is what Jessie is for, to create and utilize the system to do battle with the only limits being those of the system.

I think I understand you pretty well, frankly I think your LOOKING for a problem so you can try and 'fix' it and become some small group's hero. Lame.

when was the last time you were in jess? why do you have such a harsh opinion of what i am doing if you " don't live, or own anything, in Jessie. And frankly haven't loged in days". If my organizing of jess is wrong come on down to jess and be oppose it. cause thats what all the chat is about. what happens in jess. Now if you dont wanna use jess, whatever in jess then dont be a jerk and attack me on the forums. Cause im in jess every day i have a good connection and I would love to have a chat in Rl time about how every one can enjoy jessie.

Jack O

Don't blow smoke up my tail pipe. I have a problem with ANYONE walking into something as the new guy and trying to change it because THEY don't like it. Did you read "Down and Out in the Magic Kingdom" ? Its author was recently interviewed by Hamlet Linden and would provide a good backdrop for this discussion.

I am arguing this point because, most of the rest are to tired of beating the dead horse (and frankly because it gives me something to do in down time at work).

You have lost all other points. You know your in the wrong in what you are trying to do. So you want me to log in to listen to you get up set in real time and probably try to bump me around to "proove a point". No thanks, I wont waste my time on such childish tactics.

You have a dream for what you want, it can be realized in ANY other sim, why do you persist in Jessie? Why are you fighting over this ONE sim?

Up to now, i've tried to reserve any further posting to this thread, as I simply dont agree with you. However- from the sounds of it, youve used every opportunity to use your status as a 'senior member' to leverage yourself against Jack by insisting that Jessie should be a place where people dont build or live without being griefed and annoyed. From the times i've visited Jessie, and while I have been griefed before, this is NOT the way Jessie is, and it is NOT the way that the MAJORITY of Jessie residents want it to be. If Jessie is what you make of it, then people are trying to making it more civil.

And if you're going to go accusing jack of creating something from nothing, might I go ahead and point out how you are coming off in your posts? You are coming across as someone who is looking for a situation in which you can talk down to other people based on your 'senior experience' with Jessie. Not to say that this is your intention, but this is how it is sounding. You're vision of Jessie makes me think that it was created in an attempt to keep griefers entertained, and everyone else out. Do you REALLY think thats the reason it exsists? Seems like a pretty daft waste of a server, dontcha think?



..Ok, so..

If you dont like being griefed by malicious scripts (which have nothing at all to do with combat), you should pack up your stuff and leave Jessie. because malicious scripts (non-combat) are just fine?

Last I checked, Jack was encouraging combat and discouraging griefing.

*imagines Jessie with no builds, just a large, featureless sim with just "combat"*

Ok, I thought about it, now its your turn!

Simple time again:

"You're vision of Jessie makes me think that it was created in an attempt to keep griefers entertained, and everyone else out. "

Yes, it was.

"...because malicious scripts (non-combat) are just fine? "

Yes, in Jessie only.

And my comments about my 'seniority' which isnt all that big of a deal, its in months, some here have YEARS with SL. They were made as verification of the information following them. I have heard this argument start up and drop off 2-3 times before thow only one in my time period lasted very long. That was the great war of the wall which I would hope you have read.

When I entered the game the Outlands consisted of FIVE sims but that got downgraded due to the people they were made for moving back out. There wasnt the demand.

That has to be, ..you know..

Im dumbfounded. Thats totally ridiculous, probably one of the most backward ass concepts i've heard in at least six months. Seriously. Anyone who is savy enough to keep a project like SL going has GOT to be more intellegent than this; I simply refuse to believe that the Lindens intended Jessie to be a griefers paradise.

Wow, im just gonna back away from this thread slowly before my brain explodes from uhh... ow- this is..dumb

As I asked before, I suggest you do a search on the boards for the word 'Jessie' then read though the New World notes by Hamlet linden. Lot of info about what has gone on in Jessie and the Outlands can be found there.

Hey dont be too quick to dismiss combat as griefing. Look, combat has been a major aspect of this game since ALPHA.
People who like the combat aspect should get their own place, away from those who would consider it "griefing".
There will be a combat sandbox shortly, or so I've heard.
It could be great fun, but sadly for a european LPW such as me that aspect of the game has been mostly denied.
I wish there were more peons like me, so we could have a peon Linden and a peon Sim.

Combat isn't just 'greiffing' but some people don't quite understand the nuances of combat in SL. It is more than just point and click, tag and die. When you have the powers of a god...

Gwydeon im sorry you think if you came and chatted with me RL i would bump you around as i dont even own a script that does such a thing. Aswell as probably being one of the chillest people around you are the first person i have gotten into a tiff with. so stop being so confrontational and if you dont have any positive suggestions well i dont care cause i dont really want to know why it didnt shouldlnt or couldnt work. Look ive got positive responses from most in jessie lindens, people who dont live in jessie but go there more often than you. And i have read the jessie wall posts and a good deal of yours as well it sounded like a pain in the ass for someone who just wanted to pop some caps and have some fun.
anyway ask around see what people think of me and what ive done before you start saying that im takeing the combat out of jessie. As lola stated im hosting shootouts and trying to get people to have kick ass combat.

Jack O

"if you dont have any positive suggestions"

Combat can occur ANYWHERE in SL. On any land with health acivated. Only in Jessie can you have scripting wars. Battle to see who can better use the system.

Possitive suggestion: Move where you wont have these problems, and you wont have these problems. All will be peacful and flowers will decend from the heavens...

O <-our conversation (and this age old argument) looks like this figure.

I'm going to try to quit for now. Its all been said. We are reruns of reruns at this point.

First, let me say that I MUST be overworked if this has been going on for three pages and it's the first time I've had a chance to sit down and read it.

I think at this point it makes sense, sadly, to just stop listening to G. He's had his say, clearly and repeatedly, and that is that Jessie should be a sandbox. It's not, so it strikes me as a moot point.

Jack, I wholeheartedly support what you're doing. While I haven't had time (again, that overworked thing!) to go over the Blue Proposal in depth yet (but will this weekend), I think you are to be congratulated for taking a step towards defining WHAT Jessian home rule would look like, were it ever awarded.

G - since you've stated that you're pretty much just putting your iron in the fire to keep busy during down time at work, how about I send you a few sections of the grant I'm writing to work on? I promise, finding funding to house homeless children would be a much better use of your time.

Bhodi

I'm sorry, but I have to respond to this, too. (Once I get started... well, you know!)

In fact, Jack was trying to start a new conversation - a conversation about self-rule and self-discipline in Jessie to make it fit the needs and desires of it's CURRENT RESIDENTS. It's you, Gwydeon, who brought us back to the old "this has been done before, I'm too cool for it, pretend you don't notice I"m here just repeating my old tired bullsh*t" stage.

Bhodi and the chip on her shoulder

Why don't you self rule outside of jessie?

Jack and yourself are repeating the same old arguments as well. That was the point of my last post. This argument is cyclic. Its going no where, its a circle, and it has been since the outlands were created.

Why, I do! As an individual, as a voting citizen in a republic, as a member of my local city counsel and an active participant in several organizaitons for social justice.

Or, if you meant in SL, I do there, too. My home, as opposed to my business, is in Slate. We have a home owners association which meets and makes decisions about everything from theme to land ownership in the Sim.

So, what was your point?

I regret that I haven't already done this. Jack, so far as i'm concerned, is a very good example of the kind of community leader that Jessie needs. Cheers Jack

"So, what was your point?"

Don't read to good huh?

No, I read fine. What WAS your point? That I should self rule other places? I do. That I should not participate in the move to let Jessians self-rule? If that was it, you didn't say it very clearly.

(not trying to be ill here)

For clarities sake, use the button labeled 'quote' in the bottom right hand corner of a persons message which you wish to reply to, and you can quote their entire message. This makes it a bit clearer for anyone reading to figure out who you're replying to

Wow, this is the most entertaining thread I've read in a while

I believe Gwydeon sees Jessie as a place where script-gods and script-goddesses battle it out, and nothing is out of bounds. That sounds *very* cool... if you're good at scripting.

Unfortunately, the number of players who have the skills to do that are very few. It would be a shame to use an entire sim just for a handful of players, especially when there are countless SL players who want a place for combat.

In the end, control over Jessie comes down to numbers: the most organized group of people can create combat as they see fit. The scripters who use their talents to force others out of Jessie will just have to adapt.