Piracy in SL.

Corn, the moment you create something, you own the copyright to it. There's nothing extra you have to do to own the copyright to a creation.

How would the DMCA be enforced? Are they suggesting you make a real legal claim (and incur real lawyer fees)? The DMCA, like many laws that govern our technology and communications, isn't globally enforceable. What if this Copycat is in a country that hasn't fallen in line with U.S. intellectual property demands?

This is just an interesting discussion point for Virtual Worlds in general. I understand the need for IP protection, but there is also a certain amount of copycatting that is desirable or else how would we have the many choices for Dance Machines/Raffle Balls/reasonably priced prescription drugs?

Let me make a suggestion to anyone who actually tries to file a DMCA claim via Secondlife creations:

(1) Give me half the time, effort, and money you plan on spending to make a claim
(2) I'll kick your ass
(3) You'll save 50%

Trust me on this, you'll be glad you did...

You dont understand the whole point here. Had this been another plane that was targeting an F-18 I would have no problem. If it was a better or worse model, I would have no problem. They didn't create a thing. They took MY model apart piece by piece and remade those prims to the exact size, shape, color etc. There was no creativity in that at all. They are essentially selling MY WORK. these two individuals are making a profit by selling MY work. I'm all for people making the same stuff as me. I dont care, May the best man/woman win, but i AM against taking my work apart and remaking it to my exaxt size, shape, colors etc. Lets simplify this. Lets say I wrote a book about how to build and script in SL and was selling that. Then (Insert person here) also writes a book about building and scripting in SL. There is no crime there, is there? No. But Lets say that second person took MY BOOK, Word for word, and sold it under his name. Isnt that a crime? If you opened that book and my book to same page, same paragraph, same chapter.. and they were perfect matches. Isnt that a crime? in the real world If you did that what would happen to you? Now. to make a better connection to what has happened here, If you took my book, removed any reference to me, added your name to it. Then to further hide what you did, made a copy of it so that its not on the same paper mine was printed. Is that no longer a crime? because that is EXACTLY what has been done to me.. anyone who doesnt see wrong in that is just misguided.

Cornelius,

I understand what you are feeling. However, the truth is that due to lax Linden supervision and even laxer internet laws and the effort required to file an actual lawsuit, that the theives here have, and will continue to, escape unpunished.

Its bullshit man. Real bullshit.

My reply was directed to Satchmo's response You're just a bit faster at the keys than me and slipped in before i finished. He just made it seem like like he thought they made their own original creation that looked like mine, They did not.

Then.

File.

A.

Claim.

File, or deal with the fact someone ripped you off. I'm fairly certain that the Lindens could easily compare the two and see if they're identical, and if they are, you'll probably win. The longer you wait, the longer he has to start making 'adjustments' to make it non-identical.

Complaining in this thread will get you nothing. Filing a claim will (probably) solve your problem. It's a simple equation.

Cornelious,
I wasn't poo-poo'ing your problem. Infact I've had a script stolen from me in a very similar way.

I was merely stating that your problem brings up real issues about IP in virtual worlds. I think in general, we the community, should develop our own well formed ideas and proposed solutions to real issues. In contrast to waiting for the world developers to make hasty rules. This is a good way to open public discourse.

Can anyone defend this blatant copy-catting? At what point does modifications become completely new work? If I purchase an object, is it fair use add scripts to it and call it my own? Would it be good to have a volunteer group of citizens who review IP disputes before trying to get the Lindens involved? These are the issues we should try to hash out as a community

1) I've already got the "OTHER" plane.. They cant mod that one.

2) This thready has raised public awareness of shady activities being commited in SL. I think that has acomplished A LOT.

I'm looking into the whole DMCA thing right now and am not going to scurry to file a claim until i know what i'm getting myself into.

EDIT: Typos, GAH!

According to the law - never.

Go look up derivative works.

Siggy

Think along these lines:

If I got a typewriter and re-typed Lord of the Rings word for word on clean paper - does that make me author of Lord of the Rings? Or would the Tolkein Estate have a legitimate reason to be pissed off with me?

Because that's pretty much whats going on here.

Siggy.

Yeah? Then why don't YOU go...





...away!

First, I believe in IP, that the person who creates something is the one to decide how it is used.

Back in grade school a classmate made a paper airplane, I looked at it and made a copy, as close as I could. How is that different?

Let's say I add a propulsion system and some streamers and then sell it, is that OK?

Yes, theft is different in the computer age. One big difference is that in the days of old an item was taken from a person thus denying that person the object, in the digital realm that is not the case, only a copy is being made. Recognizing that we have copyright laws, patent laws, trade dress laws and something we refer to as IP (Intellectual Property). But these laws are only meaningful when the value lost via IP theft is larger than the legal costs of obtaining redress--reality raises it's ugly head.

So what to do? In SL: triple neg rate the guy (with each av) and rant in the forums. Having done that, move on.

Yay for plagerism! People in SL soo rock. Common someone, do it to me! I want to be the first person in SL to start sending out C&D letters! Common! Common! People in game just don't get it. If you didn't create it, then allow the original creator to take his/her credit for having created something. Sure, if they said, go ahead and copy, sell or whatever, do it. But leave the freaking creator's name in place.

To me, people who do this shiat, you're uncreative, selfish twits, who cannot model, script or texture anything worth a damn. You are a consumer. All you can do is exploit resources around you, and not be apt or able to create your own original objects. By plagerising other people's work, it gives you a feeling of self importance. Come to the realization quickly thou, you are still just a consumer. At this point, you are just greedy slimeballs. You simply take credit for other people's work. You are simply lying sacks of crud. Get a life.

Since this is now the common behaviour inside of SL, lets all go resell Linden freebies, but make sure you link your own object in their to make sure you take credit for it. LEACHES SUCK!

Yeah...

I agree that bit for bit and proportion by proportion copying of anything sucks. Its a complete ripoff of somebody else's creativity.

But...

Do we really want the Lindens to spend a good portion of their time running around and deciding what is and is not a ripoff?

If your creation is worthy of protection, then take it to court. There already exist r/l mechanisms to protect this. Don't ask the Lindens to be adjudicators.

My L$0.02...

- Ace

My sentiment is the same. LL is not here to govern these processes. They have helped in the past with conflict resolution, but they have made it clear that they are not the cops, lawyers or judges. They have often pointed out that they will only remove or suspend offending content if the proper legal documents are sent to them.

Having said that, before I feared invoking copyright law or someone else doing it. Infact, I likened it to opening Pandoa's Box. In recent light of various plagorism stories coming up, I feel it would probably be best to have an example made of one of these idiots. Show them that IRL it ain't cool and in SL it ain't either. I honestly hope someone has the balls to do it to me, so I can hang them out to dry or atleast send a really nasty C&D letter to them.

This type of behaviour seriously offends me personally, and I take it as a personal attack on the creative endavours I have set forth, and the sheer effort often put into many of my creations. I feel this same type of general feeling of offensiveness when I hear of others doing having the same offenses done to them. Hmm, us creators should unite, and find ways for these idiots to understand that they're the worse scum of SL.

My rankings of lowest SL inhabbitents:

1 - Plagorisers
2 - Griefers
3 - Linden Freebie Sellers
4 - Land barrons

Its simple that DCMA thing is usless as the permission the protections we have in world are minimal at best. LL in the past has done their level best to rectify certain situations such as texture theift excetra however, through scripting prims can be geometrically copied.

In one aspect previously I was fearful of Cory's new plan for the permissions set. However, how I see it now it may be benificial for situations such as this.

Unfortunately as a real world note, Copying into a derivitave work is one thing. Direct xeroxing is another. One is punishiable by a slap on the wrist telling the creator if the item is trade marked they cannot use it. Like if someone remade coca cola cans but call em moca cola instead. But a person copying that can line for line word for word and making it red n white and calling it coca cola is gonna loose and get slam dunked for it.

another case in point. A Person take a picture of the Coca Cola sign in New York and uses it to sell something they made like Clothes for instance. The ad reads Even Coca Cola sign in New York cant out shine the PoomBa Slick Back Jeans. That is a violation of TM as the Coca Cola sign is a Registered TM image and to use it one must obtain a Trade Mark Lisense agreement. However, on the same concept a painting that has a warped disporpotionate representation of the Coca Cola Sign with the words muddled and everything else painted to a T in the picture the ad could read "Poomba Slick Back Jeans Out Shines them all...."and have a photographic representation of the jeans overlayed on the painted back drop. It cannot be disputed as the back drop is muted interpretatation through an artists eyes. This definition can be easily disputed. Yes Coca Cola can get upset that the image has a likness of their sign being dipicted in a none clear way but the only reason they would get upset is it wasnt clear enough for them to sell more Coca Cola. But anyway I digress.

Corn sorry to hear of the reponse you got partner. Don't feel alone its the same response several of us have gotten in the past. But with current permissions sets and protections we are in essence screwed if someone arbitrarly gets a copy of our work and distributes it.

Sincerely, Shadow

It isn't a matter of "balls" it is a matter of US$ in legal fees.

Then there is the matter of Due Diligence or the lack of. In SL Due Diligence says that IP is only marginally protected, invest time and money accordingly. Lobby for a SL tort system, eventually that is the answer.

Guess what: Life isn't fair. There are nasty people out there. Learn to deal with it.

The DMCA is evil. Anyone who uses the DMCA to protect one's works are only encouraging the acceptability of a political-corporate-baseball-bat law designed to protect nobody except those who can afford a fleet of lawyer-thugs. But hey, that's just my opinion.


I'm of the opinion existing copyright laws are either A) more than enough to handle this case without needing the DMCA-legal-thug law, or B) no laws currently in existence are adequate to properly protect one's digital creations. I'm not exactly sure which one would be the more accurate assessment. We're playing in a legal gray zone here that is still needing to be worked out - what constitutes copyright in a digital medium, how to classify 'original works' from 'exact lookalikes', etc.


If any of my items were copied by another designer, then agreed, I'd be pretty miffed too. But I'd also do two things:
- Start advertising my own item as the original design ("Dont buy a cheap knockoff, buy a genuine Newfie original!" etc).
- Put in my profile a comment about the copying.
- Create a new version that's an improvement over the old.


Until someone in-system with deep pockets decides to hire a fleet of lawyers and start getting actual court precedents set for this, then we're all in the same boat.

Then again....maybe supporting a community-based business/consumer protection group like RATE could be a good idea. From what little I've read, they may just have an idea that could help.

- Newfie Pendragon

He unlinked it to change the main prim. Dan just scripted this, he didnt take your scripts and reverse engineer them.

It's not necessary to unlink an object to change the main prim. All one has to do is place the prim and then link the object to the prim thus making the last prim linked the new main prim.

It may not be necessary, but it is a way to do it. You cant just rule out any excuse because you think there is a better way. Dan remade all the scripts in this, he created the heat seeking missle, the hud, the particles, and the flight script. Many people in this thread are flaming Dan without any knowledge of his side of the story. Corn was wrong to take this matter to the forums because many people were not there, they cannot pass judgement.

No one is debating the scripts. The fact that the plane was copied prim for prim is the problem. In context of the story it sounds fishy that someone unlinked the whole plane to add a new main prim when its not necessary.

He unlinked, added the particle emitters behind the jet, then changed the main prim, I was there.

Also, this shouldnt be directed at Dan if this is about the person who copied it.

FYI: Dan and I have settled this matter in world and this matter is dropped between him and I as long as the plane is NOT sold and NOT given away. So Dan and i are done with this whole mess.

As for Pyotr.. time will tell.

Ragol. Changing a primary prim will change the ownership, but it will not remove the "no transfer" flags. Your theory is flawed but your opinion is appreciated.