Piracy in SL.

Hi Everyone,

Today i was testflying a vehicle I made and flew by the new sandboxes. This is about when i noticed that there was one of my creations just sitting there and wondered who left it. I edited it to see the owner and i noticed somebody else was the creator. I contacted someone that i gave a no transfer version of and he told me he wasn't involved in the re-making of the airplane. Then I IM'd the creator and was told that the person who asked him to "Re-create" the airplane was the person who i gave the no-transfer version to. The plane was actually recreated Prim by Prim to the exact size, shape, color of mine. Not to mention has scripts & objects inside the plane that are created by the person who had no involvement in its creation. Whats depressing is that this plane had a different owner than the two involved so this means its circulating. The Lindens have been informed and are investigating this but who knows what can be done about this. I'm personally trying to get them to purge the stuff from the SL Database and call it a day. Please do not buy this plane from these people. It is stolen property and will be engouraging people to do the same to other peoples property in the future.

I have attached a snapshot of the planes side by side and you will see that its not a similar plane.. its the SAME plane.

for your reference please watch out for the names of these planes

Mine is simply called "F-18 Hornet". The other is called "F-18 Jet by Dan Medici and Pyotr Czukor"

or just verify that it created by Cornelius Bach.

Sorry for the drama on here but i cant let it slip.. it is a mathematically recreated copy of my work.

Dang.. it looks to me like it's an identical copy.

It sucks that you work for so many hours getting the geometry just right, only to have someone Xerox it and then sell it as their own.

Yeah, Whats even sadder is that mine has flaws on it (Never completed the model) that i would have repaired before ever selling it. I guess they assumed they were features! They have the same flaws...

Things like this make me mad.

Hope it gets sorted for you, Bach.

Ironically one of those people recently posted about being 'ripped off'.

I feel for ya Corny.

Siggy.

Oh wow. That really sucks Cornelius.

Who would *do* this? I mean, it's not even fun to robotically copy numbers? Who on earth wouldn't just spend the time to do their own model??

But, they only got your model right? They didn't snafoo your scripts and textures?

I think you can file a DMCA takedown notice to restrict the distribution of it.

It's very disappointing that this crap is happening in SL!

Please keep us posted Cornelius of your progress dealing with this situation.

I find this to be disrespectful, dishonest, and dishonorable.

All the best in finding a resolution to this with the Lindens, Cornelius. I saw you in the Welcome Area today.

Dude those planes are so obviously different I don’t even know why you posted this shit!

On a serious note Corn give me the heads up and we will roll on these thieving bitchs. Bro I don’t mind getting suspended for the cause. Allow me and some big pipe swinging Cholos to pay these dudes a visit. I know how many obsessive hours you spend on a build. This is unacceptable bro. Fuck these punk thieves!

You're going to have to DMCA their punkasses

Just to let everyone know, I did not copy the jet. It was Pyotr Czukor, it even says he was the creator. This is the story...

Cornelius sold me a jet a while back with all permissions except for transfer. I planned on doing scripts/sounds for it and we were going to sell it together. I finished the script, made weapons, and sounds, and then I IM'ed him 10-15 times (I'd say over a month period) telling him it's done. He never responded. So, I figured I'd sell the weapons/scripts/sounds since I had no need for them without a vehicle that had permissions on it. My items were purchased by Pyotr Czukor. I still had the plane, so I flew in it a bit. Now, the thing is, I have unlinked it before because I was making minor changes to it on my own for scripting purposes (contrails and such).

The only way I think his work could have been copied is if someone copied it from me while it was unlinked. It is very possible that I was AFK while it was unlinked and someone copied it then. Me and cornelius discussed the entire situation for a bit, seemed to have it sorted out, but I guess he felt the need to post it on the forums afterwards anyway to create drama.

Thanks,
Dan Medici

Can you file a DMCA takedown on a copy of someone else's work? The F-18 Hornet name and plane design are owned by McDonnell Douglas.

A prim for prim copy of someone's creation in SL for your own use is one thing, an academic pursuit perhaps. Selling it/giving it away is just chickensh*t. Legal/Linden remedies really can't be pursued and it would set a disturbing precedent if LL got involved. We will all have to use the systems given to us in this type of situation, which is public ridicule, shame and neg rates.

Cornelius is obviously getting screwed by someone and I hope it is just a misunderstanding that can be settled.

You added a prim after each thruster and a HUD clear prim in the cockpit.. nothing requiring unlinking... Lots of holes in this story.

Yep it was unscripted, thankfully.

I don't mean to stoke a witch-hunt here, but I remember running into Pyotr Czukor in the Realities End sim about a week or so ago. He was selling a jet that looked awfully similar to that.

I wish I'd gotten a screenshot of it, but I didn't. This would have been around 10/22/2004 judging from the other screenshots I took that day.

I'm sorry. I Know you are not selling the plane and are completely innocent. I bet that other creep also posted THIS!!! /invalid_link.html

"And the truth shall set you free..."

EDIT:
Sorry.. had to quote me buddy Nick Fairlight in this one "pwned"

This is all very lame, and I hope it all gets resolved Corny. As Alan states below, this is an interesting one because it is an inworld re-creation of a real world (presumably copyrighted) design. In which case, is the copying of such (each prim rezzed and assembled from scratch) covered by DMCA? The rights belong to the aircraft company.

Morally this is a clear cut case of ripping-off, but legally it must be quite a tricky one for Linden to enforce.

Good luck Corny..!


Jai

I know that I'm in the minority here, but I'm of the opinion that there is nothing wrong with recreating an object prim-by-prim and script-by-script, so long as its created from "scratch".

To use an analogy that I used in a previous thread, this is similar to Burger King coming out with their "Kids Meal" after McDonalds came out with their "Happy Meal". Its one burger, some fries, a soda, and a cheap-ass toy in either case, and there's nothing wrong with this. Do you really think McDonalds would have a leg to stand on if they pissed and moaned in court over Kids Meals?

Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. And reinventing some wheel and possibly making a better mouse trap in the process is what makes the world better and better.

- Ace

OK, I may be lacking here... but does anyone know what the 22nd month of the year is?

That analogy is flawed, Ace. It doesn't really capture whats going on.

If we were to follow your analogy, someone would have made a completely new F-18 model, *from scratch*. Not an exact copy. That's not what happened here.

Kids Meal vs Happy Meal... Those are just ideas. Anyone can stick some food in a bad and call it something.

Now, what if Burger King had ripped off the boxes that McDonalds used to use (Do they still use those cool boxes? Or have they gone the way of the bag, now?), with their distinctive design and art. And gave away exact copies of the same toys. And called it the "Happy Meal, by Burger King" just for good measure.

NOW do you think McDonalds might complain?

The date format in America is Month/Day/Year, not Day/Month/Year.

Not to intentionally play devil's advocate here, but...

I don't really think that the wholesale, bit-for-bit copying of prims is going to ever be illegal, or even filable under the DMCA.

This is coming from me, who's made his SL "living" by making houses for people. It's absolutely possible that someone could take my design, disassemble it, and sell it as their own creation. What can I do about it? Well, sadly, not a whole lot.

And really, should I be able to? At what point does it stop becoming a direct copy and start becoming "inspired" by it? Where's the line? It could end up a very slippery slope.

LF

And if I re-invented the F-18 in terms of look and performance, but called it a G-19 instead, Boeing (actually originally built by MD, but they're now part of Boeing) couldn't complain either.

So long as I didn't steal their copyrighted blueprints, or infringe on any trademarks, there ain't squat they could do.

- Ace