New Home for Griefing Tools

Seems like the griefers no longer have to hawk their bombs in the sandboxes. They are taking it to the masses. Here are a couple item description excerpts from the weapons section on SL Exchange:

"Simple to use. Just type in /5 boom and the whole world explodes!! Forces most AVs to relog. Super powerful. Unlimited C-4 Packs per purchase. Great item, great deal."

Griefing Tool

"Don't let this weapon fall into the hands of SL terrorists. The ultimate of ultimates, upon detonation this bomb kills every avatar in the sim and hurls their bodies to the surrounding sims."

Griefing Tool

Somehow posting "Purchaser expected to use within SL Terms of Service." doesn't seem to make this right. Considering neither of these can be used within the TOS.

Yeah, someone was selling listening devices specificly designed for covert spying a few weeks ago there too. Might still be, I dunno.

I guess it's not really the sites job to police the content, but you would think the Lindens would take a critical view of this.

So this is an interisting issue.

Should sellers, of both Webshops and Malls (not to descriminate), take responsibility in not allowing these sort of things that could for all purposes, and most likely are, used against the TOS?

How do you differenciate? To me, the first item which would force avatars to relog, is more dangerous than the second item. I would definitly not allow the first one to be sold in my mall/onlineshop, but the second one I may. Its a judgement call that is up to the personal viewpoint of the owner of said mall/webshop.

I think it's a fine line with some things, even 'covert devices', as to whether they violate the ToS or not. Certainly the last time it was discussed, there were some plausible legitimate uses for them put forward.

However, can anyone see any legitimate reason why you would need bombs, the effect of which is to clear the sim by abusing everyone in it? I can't, to be honest. And as such, it would seem that this is a clear cut case of items designed with one sole purpose which is explicitly forbidden by the ToS. I don't think it would be at all unreasonable to ban them for sale, or for the Lindens to take action merely for the sale of them.

YMMV, of course

I think shops are partly responsible. I'd be talking to the shop/web-keeps sternly and warning/temp-banning the creators of those items

In real world shop keepers are responsible for what they sell. I wonder why it shouldn't be the same for SL...

Only to a certain extent, of course, at least in America.

A store that sells a gun used to shoot someone isn't generaly responsible, as long as the gun was purchased legaly... back ground check, waiting period, etc. Basicly, as long as the sale itself was kosher, the store is safe.

The same is true here, I would assume.

None of these things are actually illegal to own. Any halfway competent scripter could make either of them. Using them IS against ToS, but that's another issue entierly.

Clearly these things are illegal because, as you say, they can't be used within the TOS. Trouble is, Linden can't enforce the rules on external web sites. If Linden finds one of these in-world then they could take action.

"Weapons" are allowed. Weapons that cause users to have to re-log (other than by freak occurance) are not allowed.

I would suggest Linden take a page from the FBI handbook and monitor these sites. When these things appear, buy one. Now you have in-world proof and you can take appropriate action against the creator. (i.e., warning, suspension, whatever depending on the nature of the item.)

Another suggestion is to designate a particular Linden as an "inspector". If a resident believes that an object violates the TOS, give a copy to the designated Linden. The Linden can examine the item and decide if it violates the TOS. (The snitch is out the cost of the item.) I suspect that a lot of things that people THINK would violate the TOS actually don't. It's only a problem if the item can't be used in compliance with the TOS, and then there are some gray areas.

Buster

I see the parallel, but then guns have a legitimate use, both in RL and SL. However, I doubt that you can walk into a store anywhere RL and buy a nuke to clear your entire neighborhood of residents, and I'd be pretty sure the authorities would be quite interested should someone be selling them. Given that they dont have a legimate use, there is no legitimate reason to buy or own one either, surely? So wouldnt it therefore be safe to outlaw them entirely without really infringing on anyones rights?

At the moment, however, there isn't so far as I know any rule gainst OWNING any level of agressive weaponry in SL. There are only rules against its use. So saying "Ban the creators", as a couple people have suggested, and so forth isn't called for, yet.

When private ownership of tactical nuclear weapons of mass destruction is outlawed, only outlaws will have tactical nuclear weapons of mass destruction.

I have been waiting sooo long for an apropos moment to say that.

well, I guess the other parallel to draw then is the worlds nuclear arsenal. As long as everyone has the capability and everyone else knows they each own enough firepower to blow the shit out of everyone else, it should be a big enough deterrant against people using one

No, but strongly discourage the sale of weapons that objectively have no other use than griefing could be a good idea.
There is a lot of difference between a Seburo that can be used to play some FPS action (and just a great decorative item as well), and something that just blows a sim away..
Anyway more than discourage the sale i would punish the use in a much more strict way. There are people that blows sims away and even boast about it in their profile, have been reported multiple times and are still around.
Someone blows a sim away? Ban. Simple.

Either something is against the ToS, or it isn't. If it isn't, the lindens shouldn't be doing anything, including discouraging the sale of such things. Now, what the denizens of SL choose to do, of course, is another story. And if you think it should be against the ToS, feel free to make that case... as with the land scanners, for example.

But right now, as far as the ToS is concerned, there is no difference between these and a seberu.




Wellllllll...

I've done it accidently a couple times. I don't think it should be a simple "if this then this" equation, but I agree punishment for deliberatly using these things needs to be alot more harsh.

And a lot of users come from There or TSO, or have a similar mindset... "If I can buy it, it must be ok, right?". A first warning isn't unreasonable.

I dunno if it is that simple. People pass stuff to me without word all the time, and yes, as a general rule I'm pretty darn cautious about using them. Case in point, only last week someone gave me a device called C4 with the description 'say /3 boom' or something like that. Now there are a number of devices in SL with dynamite or c4 kinda packaging. Some do harmless particle effects, and others blow away everyone in the sim.

If someone gets something dropped on them and doesn't think before trying it, it'd be a bit harsh to permaban them for having a momentary lapse of common sense because they didnt know what the effect would be.

Right now LL's policy seems to be: "give a first warning, give a second, give a third, suspend for a day, suspend for two days, if he is nice make him wash the car, after all he is not so bad make him wash the car again... etc, etc, etc...."

I've been begging for this for quite some time: Give parcel owners the ability to block push scripts completely via parcel options.

Then objects like these become irrelevant, and the rest of us can enjoy SL more. People who want to blow each other up with these things can do it on their own land.

Isn't a proactive approach to grief better than a reactive one?

Travis

Hopefully one day LL will ban the use of pitchforks and torches...

Public disaproval of something does not equate to pitchforks and torches, thanks. The drama just isn't to be found here.

"Gee, I wish we had one of them doomsday machines." - General "Buck" Turgidson

Guns and bombs don't grief.
Griefers grief.
Good grief.

Certain people in this thread seem to dissaprove and want to ban everything and anyone involved with whatever hot button topic is being discussed. That does equate to pitchforks and torches. You can bet the creator of such weapons will get reported by someone with this mindset and by default other creators will also come under scrutiny.

Grifers will grief with a plywood prim because they can....I would venture to guess there are thousands of weapons in SL used responcibly by people and not as griefing tools. Who doesn't like to have a good ol fashioned fire fight with thier friends now and again.

No that does equate to a couple hot button topic than in someone's vision need a stricter policy.
And generalizing talking about pitchforks and torches is just a meager and kinda pathetic attempt to belittle their individual opinions. You definately deserved your award, enjoy it

I firmly stand with a zero tolerance policy for people who instigate terrorism in SL including the development and dissemination of WOMD.

When I first began experiencing the terrorism first hand in TOS I was rather lenient. Forgive and forget.....attempting to negotiate.....remaining satisfied with an Abuse Report etc. However, I have since learned that all of that is meaningless to the SL terrorist. They thrive on the chaos and the notoriety. They take up time and resources. They do not care about the SL world and community.

At this point the handslaps and 3 day suspensions are meaningless. There needs to be firm message from Linden Labs that terrorism to the community will not be tolerated -- beginning with a permanent ban of the offending party. At-most a one-warning policy could be issued first...just in case the person is completely ignorant of the TOS.

As for the WOMD's......they continue to stronger and more damaging....what's next a virus generated by a SLterrorist? My guess is that it has already been tried.

Outside parties that carry these items for sale will not have my business....that is my own zero tolerance policy in action.

It has, it's called LB v2