Player Run Conflict Resolution

That's an excellent question! What if a player developed code within a group and agreed not to disseminate that code and later violated that agreement by sharing it with people outside the group? The group itself would be powerless to stop it. If, on the other hand, the group had an agreement with LL to enforce contracts and laws, LL could step in. In return players would handle conflict resolution internally. It would allow for an increase in the complexity of players relationships, including contracts and enforceable regional laws.

As you said, we're almost there now!

~Ulrika~

Self-government is a solution looking for a problem.
If you get involved in some sort of drama, its probably your fault, and its up to you to fix it.
Why should you trust random internet people you barely know?
You dont have people policing the web, do you?
If some script kiddy brings your chat room down, what will you do about it?
Don't be naive, and no one will deceive you.
I cant remember the last time I needed a Liaison, to tell you the truth.

This, in a nutshell (eggshell?) is EXACTLY how I feel. Thanks Eggy.

Ulrika

You battled hard for N-berg and now you've got it. Go play there. How many times do those of us (the majority) against either player government or judicial system, have to say no? Which part of 'no' do you not understand?

Latonia

Ulrika is acting exactly like a government! "We want what the people want! So we'll have a referendum. In fact, we'll keep having referendums until you vote the way we want. And if you don't vote the way we want we'll do it anyway. But the illusion that you voted for it is crucial to our blame game for years to come."

Thank you, cousin.

The very last time I needed a liason was when it was 3 against one, and I wasn't on my own property.

Your property -- your way of Second Life.

No one has a right to tell you that you have to get along with another, no one tells you that you have to work with another. You can be a socialite or a hermit -- it's your world, your imagination.

Think of it this way, if a person was harrassing you in real life, what steps would you take to protect yourself? Do the same when you're in SL, and you won't have a problem. Be mature when an immature person tries to get your goat.

Research the archives in the forums regarding self-government. Read what happened in TSO with their government.

Sorry, but I will be damned if I will allow a group of individuals to tell me how my second life will be.

If you want to form a government, if you want rules/regulations above and beyond what LL offers -- then buy a bunch of sims, connect them together, and go play politician/governor/president.

Hell, I'll even send you over a few Monica's just to make it juicy.

And the irony?

I have that *right* to say that to you at this very moment.

LOL Kris, the sad thing is that you are correct.
Representative government exists to give the power-hungry a chance to grab it.
I am in no way implying that Ulrika is like this, but in general, the people who would like to be on top are the ones least suited to do it, and in this digital age of ours, direct democracy is a lot more feasible than it was in ancient greece. So if anything, we should give THAT a try, and use the feature feedback forum as it has always been used.
Also, allow me to plug our new feature voting script
http://manageddreams.com/slvoting/index.cgi

Leave it as it is.. I didn't came to SL to be governed by any sort of government. For those who like to play government: please buy your own sims and do there whatever you want, but don't force it on all the SL residents. I don't pay my subscription and land tier fees so some sort of government (any government) will tell me what I can do or not.

By the way, exit polls predict "Leave it as it is" a landslide winner.

But I will await until the final vote(s) are cast. I'm really counting on the absentee ballots to take us over the top.

To address your statements and answer your questions:

Self government is not a solution, rather it is an increase in organizational complexity above the current member-officer group paradigm. This increase in complexity will allow for the creation of entities (corporations, democratically elected representative bodies) that currently do not exist.

I agree that individuals should always seek to solve their own problems.

I trust random internet people the same way I trust a jury of my peers, if I were on trial here in the U.S.

There are no people policing the web that I know of, however that is a false analogy as by the nature of their differences many SL conflicts have no counterpart on the web.

I don't frequent chat rooms, so I don't know what I would do if a script kiddy brought it down. I might go to a new one.

The advice that one shouldn't be naive and they won't be deceived is a standard method used to shift the burden of responsibility for a crime onto the victim instead of the criminal.

I have only needed a liaison twice and both times the request went unheeded or was mishandled to my great dissatisfaction.


I have some questions for you:

How does a group enforce internal contracts that might involve individuals outside their group?
How do large groups self organize without having to rely on a member-officer group paradigm?
How do large groups create binding laws above that of the ToS and have them enforced?
Can a good player-run conflict-resolution system simultaneously unburden the Lindens and improve the quality of arbitration?

I think the current system address the needs of 75% of players. However, there are many of us who feel we can build upon and even improve aspects of the current system.

~Ulrika~

Lynn, this is not a vote, this is a poll. It's meant to gauge player opinion. How I read the poll is that almost 60% of the players who have responded might be amenable to a different form of arbitration. Ideally, the old one would exist and would not go away. Rather a second or third form would be introduced in concert with the original for willing participants.

Do not mistake that I have no intention of imposing anything on anyone. I'm a player of equal standing as you. What I would like to see is a formalized method of giving local government the ability to enforce local laws if users in that area agree to it. The purpose of this thread is to get a feel for our opinions and to discuss how we feel as a group. Not for me to push an agenda on you. Really. I'm here to learn and discuss.

~Ulrika~

Agree with you Kris and Eggy.

Ulrika

WE DON'T WANT IT. NOTHING YOU SAY WILL CHANGE OUR MINDS. CAN YOU UNDERSTAND THAT?

So, the system works for the vast majority, yet the minority who dont think it quite works for them would like to change it for everyone else? Yeah, that sounds about right for Second Life.

As so many others have said... please go play your little games on your own land and stop trying to force your will on the rest of us.

Then you can resolve conflict however you wish. I'm in favor of a vehicle pushgun dogfight, personally. Last one who doesnt have to relog wins. You can have that one for free, if you want to use it.

Edited to say: Ouch, Latonia... my eyes!

Sorry lol. I was desperate

I'll reduce it a bit.

Latonia

I never before really felt the urge to post here, though I read the forums often with a lot of interest. But this does gets to me.

I do not want this either, and urge Ulrika and consorts to leave us alone and play your games elsewhere with those who like to be ruled by your government.

It could've just been asked in this format then:

a) I am for keeping it as it is.

b) I am for some sort of player run system.

Again, binary. I am seeing a little cultivation going on here.

Ulrika, please don't take the above as *chest beating* (as per Donovan) or any type of personal attack, however if you are inclined to lump together all other categories of votes against one category I really don't see your point, after all Nader's votes weren't added to Kerry's.

Yes, I realize this is not a formal vote.

I have no wish to change the current method of conflict resolution for everyone. I've stated that many many times in this thread. Rather I'm hear to get a feel for user opinion and discuss modifications to player-run conflict resolution for those would freely agree to accept it.

Are there any more questions or statements or has this thread run it's course? (I only ask as excessively large fonts are starting to appear.)

~Ulrika~

Oh please dont phrase it like that. She'll be along in a second to cut n paste the entire constitution in here and educate us all as to the 'by the people for the people' nature of her projekt-with-a-'k'-for-'kewl'.

You know what I mean, right? How you get elected by the people cuz they have to elect someone, and, well, you bullshitted the most about your election promises so you won... and then immediately following your instatement you become power crazed and corrupt and start pissing on the people from a great height and working towards your own personal agendas. Just like a real government!

Ok, next time I won't

Please don't dismiss the whole of us because of your exception to one poster's enunciation.

Sigh......here we go all over again. A few months ago, I thought we'd seen the back of this issue. In a perfectly simple and obvious way...... ie the setting up of Neualtenberg...complete with Linden support. Everyone who wanted to play at politics could avail themselves of a perfect opportunity to do so. End of the forum wars..... a solution that worked for all of the pros and antis. A solution that fitted terrifically with the whole concept of SL too. Creating a world the way you want it to be. All was peaceful and harmonious........there were even compliments being thrust in your direction Ul. Then, the little posts started again.....posts which on the surface may have been best kept to the group forum begin to show up here........and suddenly...BANG.....you want it back on the agenda. Please.......please.......keep running your city. Keep investigating how to pair politics with the escapism inherent in SL........ keep making your animations etc...and keep OUT of MY enjoyment of my free time.
There are many many more people involved in playing SL who DON'T even READ the forums....... they have not even used your "poll"...... equally, neither have I. There was no need....... we HAD this discussion at length months ago.

Due to the use of expletives in Kris's post I assume this thread is over.

I have great interest in talking about these topics in a productive manner and would love to hear from you. I especially have interest in user arbitration by a jury of ones peers. If you have any experience or ideas on that subject, please don't hesitate to contact me.

~Ulrika~

We dont need governmentbut we need more Lindens, maybe for each sims...what do u think?

If and when you finally accept that this thread has indeed run it's course, and it's very, very obvious what people do and don't want, will you stop with keep bringing up the same questions (sorry, polls)?

Or will you just declare the poll and these forums not representative of the majority people of SL, since you didnt get the answer you wanted?

Expletives? I have seen much, much worse on broadcast TV in primetime. Please tell me you're not going to try an shut this discussion down because of *bullshitted* and *pissing*.