Does It Matter what sex you are?

Really it doesn't.

Unless you are gonna hop a plane or drive on over to meet that VR person, it so doesn't matter. (Even THAT doesn't matter to me, cuz I ain't goin out like that) But if I did, I'd be sure to be prepared for anything.

I can tell you that I'm female. I can tell you that I'm male. I can wear any avatar in between. How the heck are you really ever gonna KNOW?

Your best bet if you are that concerned about the gender behind the av is to not get into romantical situations online.

Offline has its own suprises too, but for the most part WYSIWYG.

VR by its very nature make's "liers" of us all. My advice: don't go looking for REAL in VIRTUAL REAL places.

I chose my first name so I could gender blend and bend and sway on purpose. So did my partner. I've been asked, whether or not I'm male or female tons of times. I tell them my RL gender and they say ok.

but it tickles me, cuz really that's just taking me at my word. I appreciate the vote of confidence and I AM an honest person, but it tickles me nonetheless. As does this thread topic

hehehe oohh yes hehehe

I don't care if males play females or vice versa. To each his/her own, I am not one to judge anyone. This is Second Life after all. It is a way to be different than your first life. What I have a problem with is if people aren't up front about it when in a relationship, whether it be friends only or a romantic relationship. I would be very hurt if I were to find out that a friend couldn't be honest and up front with me about their rl gender. It wouldn't be because they have an av of the opposite sex...it's the fact that they felt they couldn't be honest or they just deliberately set out to deceive. I mean what is the sense of being friends with people if you aren't going to be honest?

I know of a recent situation where an acquaintance had been with a 'girl' on SL for about 5 or 6 months and were going to get SL married. The 'girl' finally decided to tell him that she was really a he irl. Unfortunately the damage had already been done. How do you trust anyone after that? When the person you were closest to, the person you felt a connection with, the person who proclaimed love for you...then says oh hey btw I'm really a dude. I'm sure it would make you wonder about all of your friends and if they had been honest. I'm on SL to have fun, not worry about who might be a liar

The way i see it is when other peoples feelings are involved it is best to be honest and get that out in the open. I for one wouldn't want to be friends with anyone who has been deceitful and not up front with me. We are people with feelings and they can get hurt even online...

RL transgender situations really have no comparison as far as honesty goes. But I will say this: if you end up meeting a "shemale" (this btw is a pejorative term invented by the sex industry and is NOT friendly) you most certainly are not talking to a man! You are looking at a woman who was born biologically male, much to her chagrin. Being attracted does not make you gay, and her presenting as female does not make her a liar. Being transgendered is a deadly catch-22 that I wouldn't wish on anyone.*

That said, in SL, be honest. What good is love if it's a lie?

*Edit: In this particular society, where medical science can provide the damning evidence every time and people are so insistent that men be MEN. This may not apply to your society where such a thing is accounted for in your culture or philosophy. This may not apply someday when the liability of being born in the wrong sex may be fully correctable, and changing appearance may be almost as easy as setting the sliders are in SL.

I've read a few testimonials, but I will still maintain:

The problem wasn't a Guy/Girl playing a Girl/Guy... the problem was with someone being dishonest.

I know plenty of Guys playing girls, and a few girls playing guys too who are happy as can be doing what they do and having a great time with others with nary a problem in the world...

Siggy.

It doesn't matter to me. If say, Talen all this time is a woman, I'd be fine with it. Hmm, guess I really like him or something. But I've already embraced his other flaws like harelip, hunchback, third testicle, hooknose, tentacle ... a vagina would just be a bonus.

Hear hear! Llama's forever!

wait...thats not the topic is it?

I knew a woman for about 3 weeks, then she DJ'ed and found out she was a man, didn't change my relationship and friendship, with him,
It only depends on who you ask and who it disturbs, and how much fun it can be!

Just as long as everyone knows I am a Llama, o.o

The situation rarely comes up: but if I happen to ask a person their gender/race/religion/whatever and they outright lie to me, the equity of our relationship is then thrown off balance, and it causes me emotional stress in various ways. I'm fine with the response "I'm not comfortable telling you" or something along those lines. Do not lie to me, I cannot possibly know how to have a conversation with someone who has me not knowing how to respond to them or place them in my own schemata. Example: There are specific things I like to talk about to adults/women/native americans/spiritual people and have them be able to understand and give me a heartfelt and honest response. Who a person really is does effect my relationships. (Relationship being inclusive and meaning: A particular type of connection existing between people related to or having dealings with each other) If I want a friendship, it will be a strong one even if it is and always will be only online. Otherwise it is a total waste of my time.
I mean, honestly, am I the only one who cannot stand to listen to a person dribble pathetic lies out of their mouth or from their fingers all day? If I hate it in real life, then why would I love it enough to pay for it in Secondlife? Hmm? It just does not make a lick of sense to me. I never take my brain out. I still think. I still feel. If I could remove my brain and fit in with everyone, I would. It would save me a world of frustration and pain.

Like many have already said before, it is not a question of gender that is concerning, it is honesty.

Ok so this is interesting input. You place all lies on equal footing. No little white lies vs. huge nasty lies. They are all the same to you. And a lie about race, physical handicaps, hair color, eye color is just as bad as lie about gender.

If I seek a Man or a Woman i prefer to meet what I seek. But its not that easy in my life.,.

Now I must put in a vital part in my life.. AS a start when I meet any - I am always attracted to a ”human”, how that human act, behave, move, and not least how the brain) works... in SL shown often by the used words.. chats.. mails.. IMs.. Thats the first step for me.. not what that human has between the legs..

If that ”works” I CAN i some casesDD -- think of a more closer relation.. IF i am single. In a relation I am total monogam - One at a time) - thats all for me..

BUT I am not sure that I would love to be told after weeks months of relation that that human wasent what ”it ”told me first.. in SL.. BUT.. I have a friend in SL that I care much for.. and we have no ”sex relation”.. she told me after months that she was a he.. NP for me - that ”confess” did make our ”relation” for her stronger.. (she want to be a she so then she are that for me) Ok she could have done that earlier but its probably so hard to come out to a ”confess” so.. .. I am happy that she did.. as I had read between the lines for so long..

Relation?.. yes why not?.. All the things I mentioned in the beginning are ok.. more than ok.. its the ”human” i seek.. not a sex... but sex are fun.. so that will be a normal thing to do.. of course..



/In Sweden a sex can be male or woman... plus having sex.. plus the counting like 4, 5 SEX, 7, 8... so I can have messed up some allusions... and I can see if I did that sorry if so.../

"Does it matter what sex you are?"

Nope, I do a great job of fucking myself.

Great man! HAVE FUN!!! --- The strange thing in SL are that I still havent seen THAT ball animation (Jerking of plus all included in it) but when it comes to us girls there are plenty of them - wonder why??? Its a mans world again maybe???)))

I didn't quite mean it in that context, but as long as we are there, Siggy, when can we expect auto-erotic, thrust-o BALLS?

I know but I mean it)) Have fun!... Include a ”magazine” in the balls. .DDD

It's a good thing I am an oyster and they jammed an irritant into my reproductive organ. I can make my own balls.

PetGirl said:

"she want to be a she so then she are that for me)"

Exactly how I feel. But then, I haven't been in a hot and heavy relationship with people who have finally told me they are of the opposite gender than they appear. Then I might feel taken advantage of; though in any case, I would still treat the person as the gender they wished to be treated as.


I don't think most of not really being who you are irl is meant as a deception, even among friends. When a friend of a very long time tells me he or she is in a wheelchair irl (has happened), or is really of the opposite sex (has happened), or was born in a different country (has happened), or any number of other things that, for whatever reason, they consider to be sort of "confessions," it seems to me not that the person has been deceptive all along, but more like the person has simply come to trust me enough to share something they didn't feel comfortable sharing with most people.

The difference to me between things like race or handicap and representing yourself as a different gender - in terms of intimate relationships - is when a person gets involved in such a relationship, cybersex is involved. And when sex is involved, with people letting down their defenses, most people very much want to do it with their gender of choice.

The next most important factor I think would be age. No 22-year-old wants to find out that he has been intimate in fantasy and in words with somebody's grandmother. It's my feeling that whenever a relationship starts to become intimate, both partners should be clear about any factor they feel might make a difference to the other person, even though it is just online.

coco

For me it's about consent. I'd hate the idea of getting it on with another guy, it's really not my thing, though I know it is the brand of vodka for some people.

So if you're a man, and you tell me you're a woman, you're allowing me to be tricked into something I would not knowingly have consented to. Before I engage with another person, I'd like to be able to do it in posession of all the facts so I can make an informed choice. The other person might say "I have a right to act like a woman", and they do, but I have a right not to be tricked into homosexual encounters.

Its that dam MIX that make its so hard.. I dont want to mix (or do I? - Dare I?) but always end up in a mix between SL and IRL as I want to be as ”close” as possible..


And I have so little to hide - nothing in fact.. - BUT yes I hide some as I have been stalked I started to be in cyber 10 years ago - as a 18 year old newbie and all was so nice to me... ..was what I felt.. at first (Yes I have blue eyes) .... that stalking ended up in a police matter,,, and the advice from them was to stay away from talking about IRL))) No fun....

But feelings for other ”humans” open you up a lot.. and I LIKE THAT! Yes I seek it to...DDD

Gender is not what shapes my perception of people iSL. I am not very comfortable with my sex iRL, have genderbended in the past, and do enjoy the possibility of playing with gender stereotypes in a safe environment iSL. If people ask, though, I am honest. If some RL physiological features really matter to them, then of course I'll tell the truth. There's nothing to loose with honesty. Still, I prefer to be seen as human first, and wo/man/whatever second.

As for the trust / relationship issue: Not being in SL for the cyberlove / lust aspect, I cannot really say anything about the trust issue, except that I am surprised to see so many people value RL biological sex over SL gender. Surprised maybe because I would not have expected so many people to take their SL relationship to RL (just my impression from the forums and NWN, might be completely off). Still, gender identity is more than just bits between the legs, and if someone feels like a woman / man / asexual alien from outer space in SL (or RL), then in my book they are just that. But trust issues are a very personal thing, so I totally respect people's wish to find soulmates (or more) with the apropriate gender/sex.

AS there are a lot of people in SL that close to die if you show a natural nipple... or abuse report you - so why should all be as free in there minds as some nice people are?

)))

The population of narrow minded people are a lot more in the world than us free....

Jackal,

<<Still, gender identity is more than just bits between the legs, and if someone feels like a woman / man / asexual alien from outer space in SL (or RL), then in my book they are just that.>>

I can understand that, but it depends entirely on one's real life involvement in sl. Some people treat it as a game and some don't. In real life a man might start a relationship with a woman, and if he subsequently goes to bed with her and discovers 'bits between the legs' which he didn't expect, he is likely to be *very* angry and to feel completely betrayed and deceived.

If second life relationships chime with your first life, as they do for many, you will feel the same emotions if you fall for someone who appeared to be female and subsequently admitted they were not. Perhaps it is more understandable if you look at it from the point of view, say, of a lesbian who makes love with a woman only to discover it was really a man. She would with justification feel that she had been taken advantage of in the worst way. Indeed, she would be justified in thinking she had been the victim of psychic rape.

I think most people have no problems at all with people whose av is of a different gender from their own. But the person who does this has to be extremely sensitive to the nuances of the relationship. If it becomes clear that feelings are deepening it is down to them to admit the truth as swiftly as possible, before harm is done.

Well said

I'm sure this is a lost cause just as much as some of my other recent lost causes, but here goes:

In RL or SL, just because a person is a gender different than their biological sex DOES NOT MEAN THEY ARE LYING! In the case of most transgender people, the intent is not to deceive but to be true to themselves and the world as to what they really are.

I know all of you who have never experienced any dissonance between your own sense of self and what your body is don't really understand this, but it is real. It cuts across so many societal taboos about this insistence that people are their bodies and nothing more, that men are men and women are women and that's it. But this is not the reality. The reality is any one person is a composite of influences.

On the most basic spiritual level, there is no fundamental difference between men and women. But most people have adopted habits and likes and dislikes which incline them towards being one or the other. This is all fine, but then you get into the game of roulette, what color is that marble going to land on this time, pink or blue? You may be female, male, or somewhere in between, what body you get is a flip of the coin between male and female. So it's always a game of chance whether you and your body will be in agreement. Whatever the arrangement, you're pretty much stuck with it for a lifetime.

Most people are flexible enough to adapt to the situation, and by the time they've grown up they've gotten used to it. But there are many who can't or won't adapt, or feel so strongly about the matter that they if they are a woman they will be a woman and damn the biology! There are a lot more, like me, who adapt but never really feel happy about it and places like SL give a few moments a day to express what we feel to be a true aspect of ourselves.

I get sick of hearing this called betrayal or deception. It's just your lack of understanding of the other person's reality. And to compare it to rape is really going too far!

I do understand the biological basis for this taboo: If you are looking for someone to team up with and further the reproduction of the human race, you're SOL if that other someone isn't able to produce those children with you. But this is a risk you take regardless of who you fall in love with. So if you feel betrayed, get over yourself! Recognize this is the source of your tragedy and that it may be just as much a tragedy for the other person.

It is never opening your heart that hurts,
it is only when it gets closed that the pain occurs.

Interesting thread. I have one female character and one male one, so clearly one of these is a deceptive lying little ******* according to some of you here. I prefer to keep my RL identity to myself, though some people have drawn conclusions that I neither confirm or deny.

What is really terrifying to me, and I've encountered it on MU*s in the 7 years I've been playing those, is the thought of getting involved in a bit of online fun with someone who I then find out has been taking the whole thing seriously, is expecting me to look and act the same way IRL, and to jump on a plane, fly halfway across the world and marry them!

SL for me is a bit of escapism, I'm already taken IRL, somewhere I can go for a bit of fun without having to worry about all the crap that is going on in my life, therefore I do not care about the gender of the person playing and would prefer that you didn't tell me!

I have been in situations in the past where I find that in my escapist world I suddenly find out that I have an emotional dependent that I did not ask for or expect, and finding that out is just as much of an unpleasent shock as you finding out that the person you're playing with is the "wrong" sex.

Some of you may think that the above paragraph makes me cold or heartless, nothing could be further from the truth, I don't want to hurt such people and clearly the only way to avoid this is to avoid any kind of online relationship with them as they are not going to find what they are seeking, from me.

I guess the solution here is that those who are in SL and looking for any kindof relationship that can be considered "serious" should clarify that before they even start. If that happens and someone still lies about their sex then you have a legitimate complaint.

Bringing the gender issue in as well just complicates things even further, it is my opinion that you should treat such people as the gender they prefer to be identified as. Ananda makes the point and the reasons far more eloquently than I could ever hope to manage, so there is no need for me to repeat it.

And as for the guy who claims to have "been tricked into a homosexual encounter" at the end of the day you are watching virtual sex between two avatars, not too dissimilar to watching a rented porno (though possibly with better acting and more plot!) you may as well say you were tricked into a homosexual encounter with Jen-Hsun Huang

I think that it is because there is still a lot of negativity in our society toward same sex partnerships. We are taught that that is sick and perverted, in not saying I agree with that, but many if us have been programed to think that to a larget degree. So we find that we have been becoming attracted and attached to someone we thot was the opposite sex and we discover they are the same sex, suddenly our own sexual nature gets called into question.

I didn't claim to have been, I said some people could claim to. I think it's clear you get one thing from online relationships, and others get something else. Whatever you take from online relationships it should be fine as long as you're open about your intentions, and if the other wishes, open about yourself (or walk away).